Many years ago I miss-ordered pocket door hardware once (early, early on). I should have ordered Crowdertrack, (aluminum extrusion and bearing rollers), but I ordered Acmetrack instead–because that was what was in the lumberyard and it was rated for solid doors. <!—-><!—-><!—->
You betcha… the flimsy track bent under the load…customer bytched… I had to tear the whole mess out. Not before pulling the dysfunctional product rep in for beratement. They wouldn’t offer a dime in compensation…and it likely cost me 2 days work.<!—-> <!—->
Then there was the Laser Level (I bought both…the 2′ and the 4′). Tragic flaw was that the adjustment button was where your fingers would rest…you would recalibrate the level as you walked from one location to another. I complained and got a full refund after they tried to tell me to tape a beer cap over the button–however the actual cost I would put at about 5k… was doing vertical wall cladding 20′ high around doubled trusses. Pre-painted Pine. <!—-><!—->
Same subject I ordered a whole house full of the wrong kind of drywall… after 2 coats of paint the dimples started falling. Took photos… called in that rep. He said that the jets that spray the mud onto the paper overheated and cooked the plaster…thus…dimpling and failed drywall. He apologized, tried to get me to settle for the cost of the product but after some uncomfortable negotiation we settled at a number close to the actual cost to me. (That’s why I don’t mention the name of the company).<!—-> <!—->
The missus says that she gets creaped out when I negotiate for benefit when something goes wrong. When it comes down to it.. it’s just plain profitable at times. When junk costs you money… you can just take it and move on…or you can recoup your losses for a few uncomfortable minutes of negotiating. It could be worth $1000/hour at times.<!—-><!—->
Ever bitch about junk for profit?<!—-><!—->
L<!—-> <!—->
GardenStructure.com~Build for the Art of it! Decks Blog
Replies
Nope. Usually, I just get bent over, bitching just seems to delay the inevitable......lol
Maybe I come across as an easy mark or somthing....
Naive but refreshing !
I am fighting with my insurance company right now over my garage roof.
The rafters have split down the length of the rafters and the walls are beginning to spread. Ridge is sagging. All from snow load.
THey only want to pay me $12 an hour to do it. I got two bids at 14k to rip the roof off completely to the walls and reframe it.
They dont want to pay it, stating its just a garage and it shouldn't cost that much.
With 20k in tools in there I'd think they would want to get this roof repaired quickly to avoid another claim.
Woods favorite carpenter
Sheeze! I bet the girl who answers their phones makes more than $12/hour!
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I was very suprised to learn this.
They will not pay a homeowner overhead and profit.
Been argueing with them for a week and a half, they sent out a Gomer Pyle looking contractor that had no idea how to handle it. His bid came in a little over what the contractor I had bid was.
In the meanwhile my rafters keep spliting, they were originally 2x6's now they are a pair of 2x3's. They want me to brace the roof while they nickle and dime their way to an acceptable bid. Woods favorite carpenter
"They will not pay a homeowner overhead and profit."Submit you bid in your company name. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
I tried that, telling them that I was a liscensed and insured builder.
She said I could submit a bid, more than likely it wouldn't be accepted by them. Were her exact words.
Woods favorite carpenter
I'd definitely price that one up--Not something I would relish having my work critiqued by one of my more talented peers!
Just keep telling their bidders that you are a licensed builder and you even teach woowork part time at the college...
You may end up being low bid!
L
GardenStructure.com~Build for the Art of it! Decks Blog
The builder the insurance company sent out is less than impressive.
I have seen his work and it's nothing to get excited about. Code is almost an unreasonably high level of craftsmanship.
They won't accept my bid based on the fact I know what the building is insured for and I know what the bids are.
Woods favorite carpenter
or tell them you are an engineer
give them a 48 pg list of job site details and requirements
you'll for sure be low bid
<G>
That is worth a deep mmellow smile
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Don't brace it. Don't touch anything. If the bracing fails and more damage happens, you will be blamed. They may even imply that you caused a cave-in to get more $$.
"I never met a man who didn't owe somebody something."
Thats something that hadn't occured to me. Thanks BK.
I be sure to ask them about that tommorrow. I was going to call them again anyway for a followup and see what the hold up is.
I got a letter from them today stating that I needed to brace the roof and rent a storage pod. Then move all of my things out of the garage and into the pod. Woods favorite carpenter
I thought that once the claim started with the insurance company negotiating with contractors that they became responsible for actions such as bracing; usually paying a contractor of their choice for this type of action.
I presume (silly me) that they will pay any and all reasonable costs for the pod. If you were a little old lady, they would probably be required to pay labor for moving the stuff from the garage.
Good luck.
"Then move all of my things out of the garage and into the pod. "and then...???
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Wait for them to make a desicion, or the roof to cave in. Which ever happens first. Woods favorite carpenter
No, there is a third option.....
Hell freezing over. And, in my experiance, insurance company's are all waiting on it......Naive but refreshing !
Your tools probably aren't covered after that letter. Once a problem is acknowledged, it's on you for anything in the building.
This happened to my wife's boss after Ivan. The computers were ruined because they were left in a wet building after access was available.
"In the meanwhile my rafters keep spliting, they were originally 2x6's now they are a pair of 2x3's. They want me to brace the roof while they nickle and dime their way to an acceptable bid. "Check their rates for EMERGENCY REPAIRS.I am sure that they pay much more for things like boardup and tarping. I would thik that bracing would fall into that.BTW, you have a responsibility under the insuracne contract to do what is needed to prevent futher damage.Tell them that you are making emergency "repairs" (the bracing) to prevent futher damage and that you rates or $30/hour (or whatever) unless they want to make them NOW while you discuss the proper repairs..
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
My saleman told me about these today. I am going to bill them for it as an emergency. I wouldn't but they keep dragging their feet like it doesn't matter.
Woods favorite carpenter
it's time to either ask for the manager or hire your own adjuster. my own experience with insurance companies is that they need someone to talk to them in there own language.
I agree.A letter from a lawyer might speed things along nicely. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
I got the other builders estimate today, it's within 3k of the contractor I had bid the job.
The one line item that the insurance companies builder left out was 20% overhead and profit. Add that and they are almost identical.
Hopefully this will get them in gear. They were waiting on this guy to get a check in the works.
Woods favorite carpenter
Edited 1/18/2008 5:56 pm ET by MattSwanger
Maybe he doesn't make any profit or have any overhead? I once had an insurance paid for repair to be done on my place. I had friends of mine in the business bid the job (3 of them , all licensed and bonded contractors) then when the contract was signed I subbed the work from the one with winning bid and gave him $250.00 for the trouble. There was no collusion on pricing involved, everything was above board. I just wanted to do my own work and figured I could get paid for it as well.Everybody was happy.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
I hope they didn't tell you who you had to hire! They're only job is to sign the check....to whoever you choose. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
I told the adjuster that Gomer Pyle isn't allowed to build a doghouse on my property.
I can pick who I want, which will be the contractor I asked to bid it. As for the check amount I have no idea what happens now.
Do they issue a check for the low bidders price and expect the more expensive one to drop his price? Woods favorite carpenter
No, the insurance pays what they think you will take, then you make up the differnce. If you don't agree, your only recourse is to sue. I believe that if you sign the check, that constitutes acceptance. You do know that the adjusters are trained to get homeowners to accept less than their fair share, right? Included in that estimate should have been the labor for moving everything out of the shop and storage somewhere offsite. You don't think Bill Gates moves all his stuff himself do you? Usually, by adding a lot of this service stuff, the bid gets high enough . If a pro does this negotiating for you, he includes stuff like that and probably recovery fees too. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
I do know that they are trained to nickle and dime their way to a low price.
The saleman I teamed up with is also a liscensed contractor and I had him bid the job. He is excellent at pricing when it comes to insurance companies. Right down to overhead and profit he included it in his bid.
I will end up doing the work but under his liscense this time, not the other way around.
I told them today that I will be billing for my time to brace the roof and move my tools out. They were hesitant at first but agreed when I asked them what would happen if I was 80 years old and in this situation.
I don't want to sue them, I just want a resolution to the problem. The garage kind of dangerous in it's current state. It really makes me mad when they want to argue over a few dollars, in the meantime forget about what I have on there. It's not just stuff to me, it's what I have worked for and they couldn't care less.
Woods favorite carpenter
i still think that you should hire a private adjuster. every state has diff insurance laws, but around here people who hire there own adjusters always seem to make out better. remember insurance co. there overheadf is 10% and then profit is 10% figured on top. don't let them just figure20%, can be a big difference.
Thats what my salesman had it figured out to be, 10% profit and 10% overhead.
I am going to see what they want to do this week, then make my mind up if I need to get another adjuster. Woods favorite carpenter
I don't understand why you'd be showing them anything with a breakdown of what your costs, overhead and profit are. I used to send a one page letter with the number at the bottom. The agent would call me and complain that I was way higher than his charts. I'd explain that we weren't an ordinary construction firm, but instead were a professional firm and were very concerned with our reputation and we never compromised that by using substandard trades that weren't fully accredited and vetted. Of course, their prices were higher. Occasionally, I'd mention something like "are you aware that this client has some very expensive antique pieces in the foyer and room? If we hire the cheapest laborer to move and store them, one damaged piece might cost more than this entire operation?" I also told them that we didn't operate and compete with those on the bottom tier of the construction business and asked them if they'd want their clients exposed to the cheap laborers who typically are found on the bottom feeder crews and remind him that they normally were drug users, thieves and malcontents. I'd tell him that we had higher standards but of course it came with a higher price. Eventually, they'd ask me for some form of breakdown on our services because the original estimate was so vague. My breakdown listed every conceivable step in the operation without a time factor or price. It was a long laundry list of showing up, setting up, doing work, cleaning up, breaking down, etc. Things like a very simple drywall patch would take an entire page.....three trips of prepping the house to enter, sealing the rooms, doing work, cleaning everything spotless, breaking down and packing up. A ten minute job would be a minimum of four hours. That's our company policy. I ask you, is it wrong to bill for a minimum of four hours for a service call? I don't think so....try to get your doctor to bill your for only one minute that he sees you!Sometimes, the agent would tell me that his contractors can use hotmud and do a job in one day. I'd remind him that our professionals didn't feel like they could do a professional job like that and would be concerned with the long term implications of trying to fast track a job. I'd tell him that we don't micro manage our trades defer to their expertise. In the end, the only thing the agent could do was decide how much to write the check for, even if it didn't cover the total bill. It always covered our entire amount and the agent actually started referring us to some of his clients! One of the reasons this tactic works is because the agents deal with a hundred claims per week. Ours might be the only one that he loses on. The other 99% balance his "excessive payout" and his average remains good enough to keep his job. In the end, all I did was present a logical, professional opinion and pricing for a quality job and help our clients get their fair share. In some instances, we'd have to do more than we originally thought we'd have to do and didn't have to go begging for more money to do it right. Other times, it was easier and we profited nicely and the clients were thankful for our professionalism. It's really a small potatoes argument with the adjuster. When he tells me how much it costs, I get to ask him which contractor gave that bid. Then I get to ask him to supply me with enough information about that contractor for me to vet them and make an apples to apples comparison. All of a sudden, the agent realizes that there might be some skeletons in the contractors closet and his position that the lower price might be flawed. To me, all of this is a fun game. Most here hate the insurance call but I always liked them. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
The bids both are over two pages of details of what was going to be done. Neither has individual prices for each phase of the project. Just a total at the end.
The issue they have is the building is insured for 13k, its a 20x30 garage. THe bids are both near that. One over and one just under. They can't figure out why just the roof alone is costing that much. They don't understand that the old one has to be removed and the walls straightened.
I walked the adjuster through each step on our initial meeting at the garage. She seemed to get it. Until she found out the price.
I told her that a liscensed electrician isn't cheap, all the wiring in the attic has to be removed and replaced. The overhead garage door tracks have to be removed. Siding, soffit and fascia, gutters, all have to be redone. Along with the framing and shingles on the roof.
We'll see how it pans out, now that they have the other bid. I expect to hear from them in the next few days. After this is settled I will be looking for another agency to carry my policy.
Woods favorite carpenter
to bad you don't have replacement cost coverage. kind of supprised they don't require you to tear it down and start over.
They might after they see the bids are competitive.
Not sure how they plan on handling it now, we'll see.
I don't have alot of patience for people who are cheap, and these guys are all of that.
If it were their garage and tools I bet it would be alot different. Woods favorite carpenter
i'm going to tell you a story aa little off topic but. i had an auto accident 6/7/06. i have not been able to work since. the driver of the other car works for the insurance co.. she pulled out of her driveway into my lane. 45mph. shes lucky she lived. 3 operations later, i probably will not be able to ever wirk const. again. her insurance company, would have paid off by now except, she works for them? it does not make sense to me either. by the way she has a brand new car and has worked every day since. i wonder how she will feal if i sue and take her brand new house...
My wife has the same issues with State Farm. They are deadbeats and I'll tell everyone I know that.
One of their insured drivers got drunk and hit her, as a settlement her medical expenses were to be covered for life. Anything that might be a little related is to be covered.
10 years later and I don't even know how many surgeries and they still fight her over anything she has done.
This garage issue is the same with alot less implications that you and my wife share. Almost everyday I tell her I don't know how she has dealt with it. That same exact thought would go for you as well.
I don't know how I would react if someone took what I love to do as a living away from me. Woods favorite carpenter
Let me understand this, did you order the wrong drywall, or they sent you the wrong drywall.
If they sent you the wrong drywall then I can see your point, but if you ordered the wrong drywall, then basically you made them pay for your screw up.
nailer
I ordered drywall... they sent defective drywall that the I could not accept.
LGardenStructure.com~Build for the Art of it! Decks Blog
"Same subject I ordered a whole house full of the wrong kind of drywall" Just trying to clarify things.So you ordered the wrong kind of drywall and ou didn't accept it, or couldn't accept it, and you put it up anyways and had bad results?
Jeeze Ted... you work for a drywall company? Acmetrack? Laserlevel?
Yes... drywall can be defective. The drywall looked perfectly fine. They had an issue with some overheated jets and they didn't just recycle the whole batch when they discovered the issue--they shipped it out.
It was the kind of defect that didn't make itself apparent until the ceilings were taped primed and had 2 coats of paint. The rep even coached us to cut out the 4" spots and plaster them... did that, painted again and more spots drooped.
IT WAS A NIGHTMARE... that's part of why I couldn't let it go.
I have never had a problem using CGC drywall... this was another brand that had issues.
Hope this clarifies.
I ordered the wrong brand.
LGardenStructure.com~Build for the Art of it! Decks Blog