Been thinking about it for a while … decided this was the weekend.
Used the company promoted by AmEx …
will cost $280. Sounded like a fair deal … checked it out a coupla months ago.
Main reason I did it now … van’s getting a new paint job and I plan on getting it lettered up ….
Plus … I’m pretty much outta business cards … and I’ve redesigned the logo for both.
Figured I’d jump in and have the LLC added to both!
Guess I gotta call the accountant and insurance agent on Mon.
Jeff
Buck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery…..While U Waite
Replies
And inventory the tools,
And call the insurances,
And change the letterheads
And start thinking a little differently - tho I see from some other posts you've made that you are pretty much on top of that anyway - thinking like a businessman with a hammer instead of a hammerhead with a business.
Excellence is its own reward!
Jeff,
Congrats! Having read most of your posts it has been interesting to watch the transformation. I became a corporation right off and it has been a help to me in many ways but one of the biggest is the mental factor of considering the business as though it is an individual which pays me but must remain profitable. DanT
Dan ... and Pif ....
So what else should I be looking out ?
One big reason I went for it at this time ... have ben planning on for a while now .... is I'm 99% sure I'm going to hire another carpenter right after the first of the year.
Really don;t have the extra capital in savings to cover someone else ... so I'll just have to hustle to keep us both busy ... but for the past 2 yrs ... I could have easliy kept at least one ... and probably 2 more guys busy.
I have a kid in mind .... he's been working with me a coupla evenings a week and every Sat on the current job ..... works nice because the current customers don;t work traditional schedules themselves ... and the work area is well removed from the main house ..... I've had people in and out of there 6 and 7 days a week and they're just thrilled the construction is moving along.
But to get this kid FT for regular jobs ... I have to make a real offer.
Already ran it past my insurance guy and my accountant .... as long as I maintain the work ... it'll fly. Might even increase the amount of sub work I can pick up. Have talked it over with the guys I already for sub too.
So this is the first step .... pretty much getting myself in order first.
Plus ... I dream of the time when I could actually take a long weekend and come back to a job that moved on without me!
I've already had this kid work by himself on the main job as I've gone and punch listed a coupla smaller. Worked great ... made everyone happy. Almost like a real company!
So what else should I be doing?
I have a small list .... other's input always helps.
I did it over the net using an AmEx recommended company. Not even sure what my next step will be .... they're start with the name check .... I'll be getting some paper work in the mail .... paid and extra $60 for "expedited services" ....
We'll see how long everything takes. Have a friend that used a simplar company ... things went smoothly for him.
Jeff
Buck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Artistery in Carpentry
This is more along the lines of business management than corp stuff - can apply to any DBA business too.
But when you are growing a business, you need to make sure to figure where the money is coming from. The hardest part of mine for thirty years has been that it always seems to be seasonal. Spend the season training the kid and then he's gone ...
I do most of my work now with subd who are regular with me and who I can count on without long term committment. And we get along too.
But I am looking at finding myself a full time guy as trainee and roustabout right hand man. I know that will free me up to tend to management duties, sellinbg and designing more work, etc. The main thing that has held me back from busimness growth over the years is that I LIKE working with my hands and getting dirty.
The way for me to do this is to plan ahead, and know that perhaps four weeks out of the year, I may not have full time work for him, but plan that time into my labor burden to keep a good man around instead of laying him off. I can find or make shop work to keep him busy. Ideally, he would want to go visit his out of state family for that month and volunteer to take off, but I digress.
I'm an S corp and a local lawyer set it up for me. Cost a grand but I think I got that much worth in advice whispered in my ear, so to speak. I'm the kind of guy who could have done the paper alone but I wanted to legal beagle on tap...
The accountant is even more valuable, when I shut up and listen.
;)
I probably laid out six or seven grand for all the fees and insurances to get flying on this one, which isn't bad going into a big job, see the cannonball thread in photo gallery.
Excellence is its own reward!
that whole "time off" thing is why I haven't hired someone sooner.
always afraid that I'd not have enough work to keep them busy.
finally realised I'm not gonna know for sure until I give it a shot. The guy I have in mind is an employee at the place I last worked for. They ax'ed most all the carpenters .. kept some lead's and helpers. He was one of the new ... read low paid .. helpers .. so he's stuck around.
He's always picked stuff up quickly. About a month after he started running base in closets ... he was hanging perfectly fine paint grade crown. He just lacks the experience of remodeling .. but knows when to step back and ask questions.
Also presents himself well in front of customers .... and can hump materials and clean up like anything. Getting tired of being "a helper" in the company. Loves working for/with me ... I give him a list and say "just get it done".
I knew for a coupla months I'd have this big job coming up ... and also knew I'd want to take an extended winter break after it's done ... usually take 2 weeks around the holidays ... planning on at least 4 this time. Maybe 6 and actually get some work done on my own house.
That's why I didn't hire someone FT for the big job. Didn't wanna say ... "sorry, I'm going to Fla" .... or pay their time off after only 8 weeks.
So your plan sounds like mine ... I'll start fresh in the new years... and set aside some money out of there hourly to pay for some time off next winter. He also found some insurace he can get for $80 a month ... I said we'll work something out where I pay him that "extra" $80/month and it goes to his insurance. I'm pretty sure I can cover that and still pay him just a bit more than he's making now.
One thing he doesn;t have is a lot of tools. Has a full tool belt ... but that's about all. I said we'd also have to figure some tool purchase program .... maybe a set amount per month .. or job ... where I buy the tools I think he should have ... then after a certain amount of time they're his.
the biggest thing is paid time off ... so I figure if I start planning a year in advance .. it'll be ok. Might even force me to plan for myself!
As far as seasonal goes ... I've been busy thru out the year. Have passed on a few bs jobs ... even during the slow times ... but with help ... I'd knock them out too. About 75% of my stuff is inside work .... and for some odd reason ... I'm busier in the winter? Didn't even have a chance to get a tan last summer ... but don't have to freeze this winter either ... yet.
Having another mouth to feed might actually make me push a little harder too .... get to bids and such quicker. .... maybe.
JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Artistery in Carpentry
Jeff,
I will relate to you what I have learned. I hired my guy in February of this year. At the time I had 2 months worth of work booked. I hired a guy that has good skill but not in the remodeling field. Worked at a welder fabricator for 10 years and bought and fixed up a few houses for rentals. He is also my brother. But I didn't hire him because of that, he happens to have a lot of the qualities you described and was looking for a change.
I found that my 2 months worth of work evaporated in about 5 weeks. And every job I bid after that went much quicker than I expected. I spent 6 months running my *ss off trying to keep us in work partially because we are busier in the winter too but also I was misjudging the time span for accomplishment of a job. I have now become much better at it and with winter work things have settled down considerably. But there were moments when I wondered if I had done the right thing.
You have to budget for quarterly tax deductions. Mine are 1k a month that are paid quarterly. I originally kept 1 months wages in reserve but have upped that to 2 after watching a slow month disinagrate my cash to low levels.
But.........the good new. Yep, those small jobs that are low quality or aren't exactly what you want to do personally, you can take them now and they get done with just a couple of visits. Today I am taking the day to do business items. Quotes, writing you, cell phone contracts and ordering kitchen cabinets for a job in January. All while my guy is doing a bathroom face lift and making me money. It also allows me to capitalize on his strengths which in some cases are my weaknesses.
While I pay him a good wage I also pay him extra for his insurance which he can purchase through his wifes employer. I also encourage him to take comp time instead of OT pay. That way I can pay him during a slow time while having gained earlier. I also bonus him on any job that does exceptionally well. Now that doesn't mean I give away the house but on one job that lasted 4 weeks we netted $1200 more than expected (hate when that happens) and I had noticed his work boots were about cooked so we jumped in the truck at lunch one day and I took him to the shoe store and said pick out any pair of boots. He really appreciated it as with 3 kids and all it wouldn't have happened otherwise. And he sees something for the extra effort.
I also got my guy a credit card with a 1k limit. They will give it too you on the same account as yours. You can limit to whatever you like. If you don't do that you will get a call and have to run everytime he is out alone and needs one more widgit.
All in all it has been a good thing. I am glad I went with the more expensive "A" player that can make me money vs the helper that rides around with me and just hands me stuff and unloads materials. Sounds like you got a good candidate. And you've had the oppurtunity to get to know him first. DanT
sounds like we should all start trolling infront of welding shops ...
that's the background my buddy had before quitting and getting hired as a carp's helper. As an added bonus .. he came with the right eye and attitude to get it right the first time.
I guess after sucking soot for a coupla years ... humping a load of 2x's ain't so bad!
This kid could make more money for the time being welding .. he's pipe certified ... but he likes carpentry .. and hates welding.
And like I just told him ... not like a neighbor is gonna ask ya one day if you can weld up a new bathroom for them.
JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Artistery in Carpentry
That's funny. I took welding shop classes and worked as a welder for a couple of months..
Excellence is its own reward!
Wanna come work for me?
JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Artistery in Carpentry
Sure, bew a good partnership, I can have the fun and you can have the headaches, but once your customers get to know me, you won't have any trouble keeping me busy.
Now, about that eight weeks paid vacation....
Excellence is its own reward!
My brother enjoyed welding. But the owner died, kids took over, place is dieing. To bad really as it was quite a business. Third generation.
Actually I was going to hire another guy and was chatting with my brother about it. When done with that conversation he starts telling me about some guy showing up at the shop looking for a piece of plate that he had ordered and someone in the office called and said was in. To shorten it my brother looked for 20 minutes, found it being welded on as a set up plate, cleaned it up shipped it to the warehouse area, got the customer and said he found it, loaded it and told the guy how sorry he was for the wait. The clincher? He started this thing by asking the owners in the office about the plate and they said they didn't know anything about it. So he goes through all this to make the customer happy and no one came out of the office to see how it was going, help him or talk with the customer. He said he waited to see if they would ever ask, never did. He finally had to bring it up at the end of the day.
Anyway after hearing that I'm driving home. It hits me that here is a guy dieing to help the cusomer with no support. We have always enjoyed working together. And he loves learing new stuff. What am I thinking? Turned around and went back and asked him if he would be interested. Has worked out great. When doing sub floor or vinyl he can really do layout. (one of my weak areas but getting better watching him) And its handy if we have a little metal job. Plus he can do commercial handrail real well so gives us another product. DanT
Jeff - have you considered establishing a line of credit with your bank? We set one up about 10 years ago and I can't even remember the last time I worried about paying bills on time, or dipping into savings to pay the lumber yard, a sub, or any labor. Sure eliminated a lot of stress, and that has made a huge difference in my ability to cope with the pressures of running a business - nothing worse than not knowing if you can keep your word and pay everyone you owe on time, even if a customer doesn't keep their word with you.
Jim ...
I did that just about a month or so ago ....
For those exact reasons.
I never wanna delay a sub's payment because a customer was late .. or I was late invoicing.
I went with the minumum ... $10K .... just to get used to the idea.
Haven't done anything business wise on credit ... have built up slow and paid cash for everything ... I like the idea if no debt.
Still have the house's full equity ... that sorta thing.
I'll probably apply for a bit more if anf when I get a FT employee ... again ... so I'm not ever in the spot to hold up someone else's money.
Funny thing about that line of credit ... I went to my bank first ... they kept pushing for a home equity line of credit ... talking about how much better the rates were ... then finally gave me the numbers on a nonsecured line ...
So I decided to check out the line AmEx had sent me info on ... got much better service from AmEx ... so that's who I went thru.
At the same time .. I finally got around to getting a line from my lumber yard ...
Figured I'd better start something there too .... looking farther down the line.
Up till now it's been AmEx or cash upon delivery ...
I even forgot about the new line thru the lumber yard on the last delivery!
I gotta use it at least once as a show of good faith.
Jeff
Buck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Artistry in Carpentry
Yeah, our first one was 10k, I think. That was just right to get through those cash flow blues and to get used to the idea of using "OPM" (other people's money). We later did borrow against our house (best thing we ever did) but we sure had to talk ourselves into it.
Establishing credit with your yard and a couple other supply houses will come in handy later, Jeff. People always told me to establish credit when I didn't need it and it would be there when I did need it. Thay were right.
You'll do fine though. You got that savvy from all your life adventures. Stones and "want to" are the main things, and you got plenty of both.
Have fun. Now you can go back and apply for that credit again.
You mean the year Carpentery was spelled wasn't intention either?
Slow down jeff.Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
You showed real insight there. Skills can be taught and learned but attitude makes all the difference..
Excellence is its own reward!
Jeff,
I'd like to know more about the $80/month insurance your guy found. Who is it through? Where can I found out more about it? Maybe some of my boys could benefit from that.
Any insight is appreciated.
Bill
I'll ask him .... but when I checked myself ... almost any plan for a young single guy can be had at around $100.
JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Artistry in Carpentry
Yes. I thought of that after I shot out the inquiry to you (that he was a single fella) my employee has a wife and 3 kids so he's probably looking at $1200/month or something in that ballpark. Its a shame there aren't more million dollar homes in Canada. I'd migrate my business there just for the medical!
Good luck with getting everything set up.
I do not mean to be picky, but just be sure to remove the "e" from "artistery" prior to having the van lettered. :)
Again, good luck.
Wow .. I nearly had a heat attack!
I was just at the printers today ...
checked my copy of what I'd given him ...
luckly I only mis-spelled it here!
whew ....
JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Artistery in Carpentry
Well put.
Price sounds right, but why did you pick an LLC? What is the yearly fee for a LLC in your state?
You get out of life what you put into it......minus taxes.
Marv
We formed an S Corp after discussion with both a lawyer and accountant. Apparently there are some tax advantages to the S Corp, although probably slight, and both are equally effective at isolating your personal assets from the company's liabilities in the event of a major problem. As others have mentioned you will have to do a bunch of stuff like inventory your tools (we had to capitalize our corporation in the form of asset transfers from us to the company, i.e. the company now owns the tools I originally bought), file lots of paperwork on time, change your insurance, etc. I highly recommend a lawyer for this stuff, at least just to whisper in your ear. A couple of hours of their time can save you a huge amount of agony. They went to law school, I didn't.
Ditto what others have said about an employee or three. Get them and figure out how to keep them busy doing work for and with you. Otherwise you'll make no more than your hourly wage for the rest of your life, if that. I have a good friend who could easily go from working solo to running two guys with him, but he's never done it. As we get older I've brought up the fact the sooner or later (sooner) he is not going to be physically able to do the trade, and he'll need to be strictly business, no tools in his own hands. You may find that it comes gradually with age or you may find that an injury or repetitive strain thing puts you out, in which case your company can only feed you if there are others involved in production. They can also be subs if you can find the right people. My goal is a minimum of two guys and preferably three (lead, mid, and apprentice) so that medium to large jobs can happen entirely without my muscle.
Went out on my own about 8 months ago, as an S Corp, wife and lawyer friend said it was the best way to go for me. That separation of assets is valuable. Hired me my first ever employee several months ago and it's been great. Already knew him and he was between 'gigs' as a road tour technician. Been difficult keeping him busy at times, but I figure I offered him a job and I'll do all I can to keep him employed. He has little experience in carpentry but learns fast.
Wife helps with books, don't know if I would have figured out paychecks, quarterly payments to the feds and state, never mind straightening out my books, though I do try. Thing is wife, with all her accounting knowledge, seeing all the insurance, taxes, overhead, not to mention workers comp, wonders how contractors make any money. Being the new kid on the block, and only having lived here 2 years, figure I've been lucky to have been as busy as I have been. Do love the business, but then again being of Ukrainian background I figure it's in my genes to love misery. Don't pipe in all the time but read regularly.
Let's not confuse the issue with facts!
jeff... congrats !
now... before you buy that new company truck for Corey & the new company car for Cathy.. here's one tip :
find out if your bank has an affiliation with a payroll service.. and then call them up..
i spent 17 years screwing around with payroll & quarterlies, and federal deposits and late payments..
now i fax my payroll hours in ( takes 60 seconds ).. the checks are here in two days.. the quarterlies , federal & state, are all filed by them.... the w-2's are printed by them..
my WC records are maintained by them..
it costs me about $13/ week for 5 checks...
payroll service was either number one big tip... or number two... my banker put me on to it .. and i've always been gratefulMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Yeah, I've heard that a payroll service is a near necessity. Even some of the mid-sized companys use them as otherwise it is an almost full time job to keep up with all the various state and Federal changes.
The last two companies I worked for did payroll in-house using Master Builder and we'll do the same using Quickbooks. Either one will keep track of all of your payroll liabilities to the state/feds and you just keep a calendar of recurring events in your computer so you can get payments off in time (we use Outlook, which comes with all Windows machines, I believe). If you are tracking job expenses in your computer in a detailed way, it's a simple thing to go ahead and print the paychecks too. I'm a firm believer in having detailed cost info at hand (hopefully somewhat matching my detailed estimate or proposal!).
I sure am proud of you . I've enjoyed reading your posts for a long time and realized your capabilities. Now you are exercising your brain in the business for business. Everyone who is at the" I can build to suit " stage needs to move on up to the next level. Why? Cause physical ability is not guaranteed health. I talked to the doctor and he says Ill have to go about it differently or switch occupations. Im not switching. One of these days maybe you can run your business from an office at 70 years old because you love the work! At least maybe it will be your option.
Keep Swinging,
Tim Mooney
Just had a long talk with my electrician ...
he's in his late 40's ... looks to be in top notch shape ... and always dresses great ..
we all say his wife must be LL Beans Number One customer ... as he's always in a fantastic looking plaid or wool sweater ...
Anyhoo ... he's back from the second round of back doc's...
seems the first lower back fusion took OK ... but now it's climbing up his back ...
like serious stuff going bad ...
several options ... most are heavily drug invloved... for the paid.
One option is an imbeded morphine pump ... he's just saying No ...
So he's looking at fusing the bottom half of his spine in 6 months ...
My advice was to look on the bright side ... and knowing his personality ....
adapt and overcome....
as a "master electrician" ... hire some dumb kid that wants to learn from the best ...
And just pay the kid to bend at the waist!
Still earing a living for his knowledge ... just have someone else pull the wires ...
Like when my old man taught us to mud sheetrock when we were 8 yrs old!
He was just tired of touching that stuff ...
JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Artistry in Carpentry
Tim & Jeff,
This is an area that weighs on my mind. Getting hurt, sick or just plain wearing out. At 46 I notice changes occuring. Don't heal quite as fast, don't recover from a long hard day quickly, and I get sore. Usually about Thursday unless we are on concrete then its by Wednsday.
So one of the things I have worked on is getting my employee ramped up to do certain areas alone. He can do a light bathroom remodel by himself now. We do about one a month so that is his deal. We also started selling and installing bathtub liners (don't choke I know its not Fine Homebuilding stuff, its just good money stuff). And those are profitable enough that I give him a $100 bonus for each one he does on his own. Needless to say he does them all on his own now and wants too. Point is money is coming in without my direct involvement and in time I hope to continue to reduce my personal involvement in the labor side.
I keep thinking the ideal would be to get to the point of doing sales, business stuff, any warranty work as that would be a good time to also sooth feelings if need be and to lend that hand for a day or two on a particularly demanding day or job. But hearing Tims deal sure makes you think about planning. DanT
"But hearing Tims deal sure makes you think about planning."
If I didnt like you both I wouldnt be in here bugging you. Well, I might be just because but it isnt this time.
I think that we need to be ready for the next phase when it happens. I hope I come back , but Im wise enough to know how old I am . Piffin said earliar that he liked to do the work himself with his hands. Im the same . I love it . Its time to move on with reality however.
Tim Mooney