Replies

1. 
   Piffin | Apr 10, 2005 01:14am | #1

   The design of the K-snap fastener is intended to keep the back of the gutter from contacting the fascia. That way it will be able to dry, and stay dry instead of rotting out.

   It sounds like the problem you have is that the roof edge has no drip strip at the top of the fascia to hold the metal drip edge out away and is draining directly down the facia instead.

    

    

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2. 
   Piffin | Apr 10, 2005 01:28am | #2

   Here's a quick sketch of what it should look like in section. What is different about yours?

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   Edited 4/9/2005 6:29 pm ET by piffin

1. 
   dIrishInMe | Apr 10, 2005 02:48am | #3

   Interesting... what is that beveled piece of lumber under the drip edge... Is that standard practice where you live?  We commonly put "shingle mold" or a 1x4 on the rakes but never on the horizontal fascias. Matt

1. 
   Piffin | Apr 10, 2005 05:55am | #4

   on the drip bottom is where it is most needed. It is used in every place I have ever worked. Florida, Texas, Colorado, and now Maine. Fancier classical style places have a crown type molding instead of the one by.The idea is to get the water drip out away from the fascia because otherwise it will run down that face and destroy it earlier. 

    

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2. 
   Piffin | Apr 10, 2005 06:11am | #5

   If you don't have that strip, you will probably need to get plain AL gutter so it can tuck up under the eave edge you have. 

    

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2. 
   rl36 | Apr 10, 2005 06:48am | #6

   Mine has the "K" style gutter with the hangers on top. They actually hold the gutter about a 1/4' out from the fascia. But the brackets themselves would require the edge to be out about an inch from fascia to direct any water coming back into the gutter. There is a 2x6 sub fascia and a 2x8 fascia with the 5/8ths cdx flush with the front of fascia. The drip edge does not have the protrusion straight out from sheathing like your drawing. It simply breaks down over the edge of the sheathing and fascia. Possibly by holding the drip out 1" and the edge of the roofing (tech) out another 1/2" it would get the water mostly in the gutter. Other than the wind here there is no snow or ice problems. And even if some water got on the fascia it could run off and dry easily as you said. I read your advice alot on this forum and appreciate your time concerning my problem. By the way this is my own shop I am building 76x24x10+ceiling. Thanks russ

1. 
   Piffin | Apr 10, 2005 07:34am | #7

   I am familiar withthe Ksnap profile. I did draw that schematic with a space betwen facia and gutter and top support. I have the Ksnap on my own house and have used it on about four others. I like it, but if you lack sufficient overhang, you will need a different gutter system 

    

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1. 
   dIrishInMe | Apr 10, 2005 02:35pm | #8

   Not meaning to hijack this thread - I think Piffin has the guy on the right track - but I'd like to hear from others as weather that strip that Piffiin pictured under the drip edge is commonly installed on horizontal fascias where you live? Matt

1. 
   steelbuddha | Apr 10, 2005 04:37pm | #9

   Never seen one before this thread. I've worked on houses in GA, SC, and NC.

2. 
   Piffin | Apr 10, 2005 06:21pm | #10

   No intent to insult you personally, but those are the states where we hear the most complaints about the quality of contruction workin general too 

    

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3. 
   dIrishInMe | Apr 11, 2005 01:21pm | #11

   Anyone else got a thought on those 'drip edge boards' or whatever they might be called?  The ones Piffin showed in his 56798.3  drawing right under the drip edge?   Matt

4. 
   Shoeman | Apr 11, 2005 06:16pm | #13

   I have seen and installed them here in Minnesota.  One guy I worked with called it a freize board - not sure that is the right term though.

   Not sure how common they are either.  Haven't done a lot a roofs.  Will have to keep my eyes out for it now.

5. 
   seeyou | Apr 11, 2005 10:47pm | #14

   It's called a shingle mould when its installed on the rakes, so we call it shingle mould when its on the eaves as well - don't know if that's right or not.I'll have it done right on schedule...................Mine. 

6. 
   dIrishInMe | Apr 11, 2005 11:59pm | #15

   Is it a common detail on the eaves of modern houses where you live/work?

    

    Matt

7. 
   seeyou | Apr 12, 2005 12:06am | #16

   It's an old detail. It's normally used with cedar shingle roofs in lieu of drip edge.I'll have it done right on schedule...................Mine. 

8. 
   woodguy99 | Apr 12, 2005 12:14am | #17

   I've worked in Maine, Massachusetts, and Washington State, and they are common in all those places but by no means universal.  One alternative used in Maine and Mass is to run a course of cedar shingles projecting 2" or so out from the fascia, serving the same purpose as a drip edge.  A metal drip edge may or may not be used underneath the wood drip edge.

   Shoeman, a frieze is a horizontal board at the top of an eave wall.  If there is no eave overhang, frieze and fascia are interchangeable terms.  If there is an overhang, the fascia is the outermost board, and the frieze is underneath the soffit.

    

   Mike

9. 
   theslateman | Apr 12, 2005 02:03am | #18

   If I were using a metal drip edge in conjunction with cedar shingle,I would use the metal on top of the wood to keep water out of the end grain of the cedar.The wood would be used to keep the drip line out further-something to support drip edge and shingles.

10. 
    Notchman | Apr 12, 2005 04:06am | #19

    The only places I've seen this feature is on some older houses with molded wood gutters, with the "bumpout" extending over the inside of the gutter.

    BTW,  Those old wooden gutters, which may be attractive artifacts to some, are, IMO, one of the most wasteful uses of a natural resource on the planet.

    In an old growth mill where I worked for a number of years, they were a commodity:  Just imagine taking a 40' piece of 5" X 5"  old growth Doug fir and hogging a  solid wood  gutter out of it.  (1/3rd of that wood became shavings!).

     

    Now, back to the issue at hand;  I know Pif lives on an island where continuous gutters are difficult to come by, but that eave trim board, as he acknowledged, is not necessary when installing a gutter that can slip up behind the drip edge.  And if you use a drip edge that overhangs the fascia, all the better.

    Continuous gutters can be had in aluminum, galvanized and painted steel, copper, or stainless, depending on the capabilities available in your area.

    Not to be contrary, but, again IMO, those K-snap gutters are a last resort.

11. 
    Piffin | Apr 13, 2005 01:16am | #23

    Whoa, maybe you misunderstand a few things.
    One is this idea of waste. Take a good wood gutter and it is properly installed, making it look an integral part of the house and all its exterior trim detailing, and maintian it, and it will out last you. Most of the ones I do repairs to around here are over a hundred years old, and they probbaly wouldn't need near as much repairs if the owners and caretakers took care of them right. Compare that to an AL or PVC gutter that gets rep[laced every 15 - 20 years and talk to me about waste. There is absolutely no comparison for tastefull appearance on the house. The wood wins hands downContinuous? Yes, we can get that our here quite easily. The truck rides the ferry over, and the hacks put up the gutter rthe same day they manufacture it right there. Then tjhe rot sets in behind it, and sometime in the next five to twenty years, the ice tears it off the house. In the meantime, some HO or painter or chimney sweep or satellite installer puts a ladder against it and dents it in so it looks like it ran into a flying moose... 

     

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12. 
    Piffin | Apr 13, 2005 12:30am | #21

    The guys I work with here call it a rainboard.re your comment on the cedars instead of...
    when I have seen the cedars used, the metal edge went over tham. If the water can contact the cedar, it tends to wick it up behind the asphalt shingle where it doesn't dry and those cedars rot out faster tahn on a plain old cedar roof. 

     

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13. 
    woodguy99 | Apr 13, 2005 01:13am | #22

     Rainboard...I like it.

    I never was that happy with the detail of cedar over metal, seemed redundant, but on Nantucket that's how the guys I worked for did it.  On other old houses I've seen just the wood dripedge.  Makes sense to run the metal over the cedar.

     

    Mike

14. 
    Piffin | Apr 13, 2005 03:32am | #24

    I lived in one out west with the cedar just alone under the asphalt shingles. It had growth of green stuff bulging out all along the edge... 

     

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15. 
    woodguy99 | Apr 13, 2005 03:46am | #25

    Huh--most of my friends out west have the green stuff growing inside the roof space....

     

    Mike

16. 
    MisterT | Apr 12, 2005 12:41pm | #20

    We usually extend the plywood out 1" or so then either paint the exposed under side or slide some J-channel up under the drip to hide the ply.

    Or use pre dipped cedar shingles as a drip with or without alum. over them

    Any method to get the drip line out towards the center of the gutter. 

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17. 
    user-53014 | Jul 01, 2009 01:07am | #26

    I've read it i called a kant or cant strip. On my house it is @5". beveled at top (under slates) and rabbetted 3/4" on bottom which rests on back wall of wooden gutter.

18. 
    steelbuddha | Apr 11, 2005 02:03pm | #12

    >> No intent to insult you personally, but those are the states where we hear the most complaints about the quality of contruction workin general tooNo offense taken. My branding strategy is to be the "un-" building tradesman. People tend to be blown away by professional business conduct and good work.Much of South Carolina didn't have any building code enforcement or inspections until recently. Georgia still doesn't require GC licensure. North Carolina has several "boom towns," and the response has been a couple of generations of houses that probably wouldn't be accepted in a lot of other places.As to the unidentified drip edge component, I coudn't find anything about it in any of my reference books. Is it possible it's peculiar to New England? Interesting.