I attended a “Continuing Education” class today.
The first guy lectured for 4 hours on backflow prevention, and expansion tanks. Nothing covered was new, and no code changes.
After lunch, another 4 hours, this time 3 subjects: Ladder safety, Power tool safety, and trench safety. I’m not knocking the training as much as how they drag it out,… and out,… and out.
And it cost me $80! Plus I still gotta mail the state more money to get my license renewed. I don’t mind the renewal fee so much.
Has anyone ever took a “Continuing Education” class, and actually felt like it was worth it?
pb
Replies
We had a voluntary fall protection class today at 6:30, 2 hours and free donuts.
I did not have to go but I was up anyway so what the heck.
Mike
Small wheel turn by the fire and rod, big wheel turn by the grace of god.
Hey Mike,I can appreciate the volunteer type class'. I mean if it's free an you feel like it, then that's cool beans by me.pbView Image
I administer a small water system. The initial course to be certified was only 12 hours, but I am supposed to do 12 hours cont. ed every 24 months. That's the same amount as architects and engineers need after years of training.
The courses offered are completely irrelevant. Pump repair (don't have any, it's gravity fed), Managing a septic system (what?), Managing your staff (don't have any), and on and on.
A friend of mine who is the Principal of a large architecture firm in Calgary takes the same course every year so he can catch up with the instructor who went to school with us.
Cont. ed seems to be a way for professional associations to expand their influence and power. Nice idea, but rarely useful.
Edited 11/22/2009 12:15 am ET by fingersandtoes
>>>"Nice idea, but rarely useful."<<<I'm thinkin' like you!pbView Image
The whole mandatory cont. ed thing came from medicine where they wanted to be sure older doctors were using the latest standard practices in treatment. Most people who would like to keep up or advance with in their field do some sort of cont. ed - in a way BT qualifies as that.
There is a weird movement in all professions to portray their work as important and heroic. You even see it here on BT in the "don't frame your own shed, children might die" type responses. In offices it is usually done by giving everyone ridiculous titles.
The water systems association here is full of that. The dues go to having "Operator of the Year" presentations and pump strip down competitions. The management have titles that sound like they were borrowed from a South American dictatorship, and even the secretaries won't answer to that name. Video conferencing, lobbying the legislature for stricter standards, bla bla bla, there goes more of my money.
fingersandtoes,>>>"The whole mandatory cont. ed thing came from medicine where they wanted to be sure older doctors were using the latest standard practices in treatment. Most people who would like to keep up or advance with in their field do some sort of cont. ed - in a way BT qualifies as that."<<<
I agree with the concept, anybody who's profession is constantly changing, would probably benefit from periodic update training. I know I could. Just wish they did that here.>>>"There is a weird movement in all professions to portray their work as important and heroic. You even see it here on BT in the "don't frame your own shed, children might die" type responses. In offices it is usually done by giving everyone ridiculous titles."<<<
I can understand this mentality to a point. Especially if you are the one who comes in behind, let's say a dentist who's been drivin off a household project at gunpoint by his wife, right before she called you. The guy I know that this happened to told the dentist after everything was fixed, "Look, I won't go door to door pullin' teeth, if you'll not play Plumber anymore, deal?"
I got no problem with someone who's got a brain, and common sense, doing their own work. Heck I've done it for all my life, at a hefty cost sometimes too. hehehe>>>"The water systems association here is full of that. The dues go to having "Operator of the Year" presentations and pump strip down competitions. The management have titles that sound like they were borrowed from a South American dictatorship, and even the secretaries won't answer to that name. Video conferencing, lobbying the legislature for stricter standards, bla bla bla, there goes more of my money."<<<
If I hadn't checked your profile, I think you lived down here.pbView Image
Is your C.E. requirements new for license renewal?
We have had C.E. requirements for at least 5 years now, before that my local union required 24hrs of annual training to maintain your name on the A+ list.
I'm not sure what area of plumbing that is the mainstay of your work Steve, mine is the high-rise residential. The bottom is about to fall out of that market with no recovery in the near future. I came from the industrial process piping world before that.
I do C.E. for a number of different things, some are useful some are not.
After our unions next election the new management (I hope) is going after the pencil pusher market. ie the engineering, detailing, & design area.
Yo! Bill!, (I'm assuming that's your 1st name. :-D)C.E. has been around here for several years, not sure how many? But it is may first time to have to go. I just got my JPL about 1.5 yrs. ago.The company I worked for, (I'm on that, (long), temp layoff for now), mainly does residential, and light commercial plumbing, We also handle gas piping of course, and also we do handle electric installation as well.Everything covered in the course was stuff we deal with on a day to day basis. The stuff that was covered on the plumbing side of the class was the same stuff that you have to know to pass the test.I think what got me the worst was that the guys from work knew exactly what the course was going to have in it. Come to find out, that exact class, all 8 hours of it. Hasn't changed at all, in years, maybe ever.I would love to be able have came out of there feeling like I learned something that would benefit me some. But I think anybody attending the class already knew more on the subject than the instructor did.I could've handled it easier if it covered stuff like, Isometeric drawings, or explain the recent code changes, or even better, confined space safety. I've been through confined space training a few times in the distant past, but some guys I'm around just scare me when it comes to that stuff.It just seems to me that the state could have a better C.E. program.Thanks for your input Bill. I'm glad that some states offer training that is useful.StevePS. I got a high rise question for you. Let's say you're plumbing building that is maybe 10 stories or more, maybe less. It's going to have several fixtures on every floor, lets say 5 or more restrooms on every floor. How far can a house drain fall straight down before you have to 'break' the fall of the pipe, or do you have to?I never have found anybody that could answer that. Somebody asked me that about 4 years ago, and I'm still searchin' for someone who knows.
But no one I know works on anything higher than 3 stories.Just curious.
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You don't have to break the fall, but any structure 10 stories or greater you need to have a relief (yoke) vent.
Counting down from the top every 5th floor the waste stack needs to tie into the vent stack using 'wye's".
We circumvent that by offsetting the waste stack every 9 floors by making a horizontal change of direction in the waste stack.
Thank you very much!I just learned more in a few minutes than in that whole 8 hours I spent yesterday! I wish my company was big enough to handle some of the bigger commercial/industrial jobs, the owner mainly focuses on McHouses, and service, with service being the main bread and butter.Thanks again!View Image
I take it for my Master electricians license every year. I don't work around other electricians normaly so it's good to catch up on stuff I miss by not being in a regular shop.
Last code change class I went to a program that I hadn't gone to before. The guy got stuck on arc flash safety. Spent all but s half hour on it. None on the new updates. I took the class again on my own dime just so I could learn what the heck was changing.
Count your blessings. A day's worth of lectures for computer types is usually $500 or more. Plus airfair and room, since you usually have to travel to get to them.
I've been going to those mind numbingly boring classes for 25 years. About 6 or 8 years ago I found an online school, RedVector.com, that was approved by the state and have done all my CE online since then. It is magnitudes better.
Florida,I wish we could do it online too, but KY isn't that advanced yet.pbView Image
Gee up here a one day course is $300 a two day course is $500 not including travel and accomodations. 80 to renew my CPR and First aid.
When I was Nursing they were just bringing in CE and I was dam glad they did. Some of them old ducks could not/ would not change unless forced. I took every free class offered even on days off. Then they would be mad at me for getting to do safety audits.
Most courses have a course evaluation, Take the time to fill it out and things should change. It is hard to change and adapt courses when you get no feedback.
I always sign mine and have had some interesting follow up conversations.
Some CE is a good thing. Like bringing water treatment standards up to date, think Walkerton Ontario and North Battleford Sask.
Shoe,>>>"Most courses have a course evaluation, Take the time to fill it out and things should change. It is hard to change and adapt courses when you get no feedback."<<<They did have the evaluation forms for us to fill out. I suggested covering Light Commercial type plumbing issues, and time spent on code update/ clarification, for the plumbing side.Electrical safety, like around pumps and water heaters and such. was my safety suggestion.Never thought about leaving contact info, as it's intended to be anonymous. But I will next time! Thanks dude!pbView Image
"Some CE is a good thing. Like bringing water treatment standards up to date, think Walkerton Ontario and North Battleford Sask"
That was my thinking at the time too. But a couple of things changed my mind. Walkerton turned out not to have anything to do with standards. They knew what they had to do but instead falsified records and lied about results. All involved had appropriate training.
Still I thought the new standards and increased enforcement were a good thing and watched as they were implemented. I had three levels of government inspect the small system I oversee. One guy came out with GPS and located everything. Sent me a copy which showed the level of our intake was lower than the tank it feeds. I suggested it was a mistake as it is gravity fed and you can see it at the top of the hill, but he is sticking with his numbers, and no doubt accumulating reams of similar useless data.
And as I've said, the association has spent the last few years transparently empire building at huge costs. In all the figures they send me, I have yet to see any that suggest that water quality in BC has improved. I'm not sure beyond their public rhetoric much time is spent on that as a goal. The larger issues that affect water quality involve limiting resourse extraction and other activities in watersheds, but because that steps on too many powerful toes, nothing substantial gets done.
I can understand your frustration with the GPS armed data collection idiot. If he does not understand water flows down hill, that is par for the course. Common sense is lost when a paycheck is involved. The more unaccountable you are, the less common sense needed. But he did fill his quota of #'s, now they can hire some one else to verify his data.I do agree that watershed management is critical, Places like the tar sands are a case in point, and big money talks. A friend of mine was visiting this summer, he works for the Alberta goverment. He admits Alberta is out of water. I asked him if he saw the tailing ponds at fort McMurry, he said yes then made a face of disgust. I mention the water quality as many a small town had no standards, but as you point out 3 levels of inspection have made a good thing just another item to micro manage. The fellow running the plant is probably on the low end of the pay scale feeding chain also and probably more accountable that the GPS armed person.Getting back to CE. It is something I believe in. I have delivered CE. and sat threw many a session, some good and some poor. I try to take the best presentations and use that style or format to make learning meaningful and use full.DW has taken courses threw her gov workplace. They are optional but if you want a promotion it is something they look at. I helps seperate the mouth breathers from the people who want to better themselves. She now teaches the courses as neccessary and enjoys it. Again when she's given a perk for her knowledge and other's bitch and moan, she just smiles and hands them an application for the next course.I remember professionals in the eights saying " I'm not going to learn how to use a computer" I already know enough to do my job" I kept my distance from such types. When they were forced to learn this new tech and were flailing I would help them if they were willing to learn, if they had a ***additude I would just walk away muttering there comments from before or tell them I busy oiling the gauges on the o2 tanks.