Keeping Header Sandwich Parallel.
blownonfuel
| Posted in Construction Techniques on
When making a header sandwich how do you guys ensure that both halves are flush with each other and one is not a little lower or higher than the other half?
I’ll be making a lvl header for my garage door opening and want everything to line up flush on top and bottom of the header.
I made a small header the other day and it either moved around when I spiked it together or the pieces I used were slightly off in depth so I had to trim one of my cripples to get everything flush.
Thanks
Replies
Practice, practice practice. Then, when you fail, just do like you did: trim and nip and tuck.
Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Quote of the day: "...can't be done, it will take too long, not enough pipeline capacity, yada yada but yet they don't apply the same skepticism to their own "solutions" such as wind and biofuels"
This post made me smile, remembering all those headers that "slipped" when I nailed them off>G<
Jim I was watching a video of Larry Haun and took a good look at his headers, that guy is good!!!!
We all are good, when making a video, we just edit the bad or oops out!!>G<
use a glulamNo Tag
After the first hundred, they are all easy. For the most part, I tend to line things up by feel. In the olden days, driving that first nail by hand was a critical skill. A good sharp whack could do one of two things: it would either sink the nail and grab both pieces where you wanted them or the vibration of a "less than stellar effort" would cause the pieces to slide a bit and usually the pieces would be pinned but not perfect. Not to worry though: a heavy blow will usully line things back up. Nailguns take much of the worry about that issue out of the equation. So, to answer your question concisely: learn to feel with your fingers. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Quote of the day: "...can't be done, it will take too long, not enough pipeline capacity, yada yada but yet they don't apply the same skepticism to their own "solutions" such as wind and biofuels"
Thanks Jim, I like poppawheelies idea of using a screw to start with. I guess some of my hits have been "less then stellar".
you shouldn't have that problem with LVLs. One of their advantages is the consistant size.
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Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
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I've used screws first to ling it up and get everything straight. Then when you nail it off it stays true.
I use a combination square along the two of them to make sure they are right.
We ask our sparkie to bring in the 3-phase necessary for our little tool, then we set it up in a corner of the floor deck with a rain cover over, and precision joint all those pesky headers. Perfect! The 20-inch planer sits alongside, waiting to flatten up some of that lousy framing lumber, if the need arises.
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;-)
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"A stripe is just as real as a dadgummed flower."
Gene Davis 1920-1985
The right tool sure does make things easier.
On the few occasions I've done this sort of thing I've used clamps to pull the pieces into alignment.
Thanks Dan. I was thinking of doing the same.
I always figured it was the way everyone did it.
It is an ironic habit of human beings to run faster when we have lost our way. --Rollo May
Joining headers; crown and stack them on a flat surface, then set a speed square next to one end and nail it, once. Turn around and, using the speed square again, nail the other end. Nail it off.
The way to deal with the different dimensions is to measure all your header stock first, before making up any headers and/or jacks. If you find different dimensions, mark them A or B, then match them up.
Do the same when cutting jacks, match their length to the header dimension and mark them A or B or whatever fits in your system.
An easier way, like when you're working on a production crew or when you screw up on your own, is to cut some shims and bang them in on the short side with a shot of adhesive.
Regarding good fit; when it's my job I assign one guy to go through all the studs, restacking them in three groups: dead straight for inside corners, jacks and jack studs; crowns up to 1/4" for studs; and culls for cutting.
Edited 8/12/2008 12:03 pm by Hudson Valley Carpenter
I have been shimming!!! Thanks for the great advice.
You're welcome!
But...I always carry a ten pound sledge hammer in the truck too. :-)
1. Drive stakes
2. Move walls
3. Straighten fender after being hit by deer/tree/alien spacecraft.
Well now you know why people are always asking me why I carry 3-4 2ft. pipe clamps in my rig.
When using microlams for headers, you should use construction adhesive so that they don't split apart. Sometimes micros split, using glue can't hurt. Nail every 6" apart at the top and bottom also.
Adhesive between the plywood and lvl Joe?
What plywood? Are you using 2x6 walls? I've never used plywood before for any headers whether they're lvl's or 2x's.
Joe Carola
Joe the lvls are 1 1/2 wide, the walls are 3 1/2 (2x4) .
check again- usually lvl's are 1.75" x whatever
No Tag
Will do. Thanks for the headsup.
Wow - something I can contribute to! This is what I learned on one of my first weeks as an apprentice. If headers are not LVL : Match your crowns.Line up your ends and ensure they are flush. Nail off one or two nails into that end - follow along one edge of the length firing in a nail whenever you push or pull the two edges flush.Clamps can help. Make sure you are building on a flat surface otherwise you'll nail a bow onto the header.Same practice as building a stud/cripple.If you are using LVL - you should be right on the money. 9"1/2 by 1"3/4 is standard around here for 2/4 walls.
Where did you find LVLs that slim? Al I have seen are 1-3/4"
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Maybe I have the wrong context here guys, but I am not understanding the clamps thing on this..On solid lumber once I nail ends flush together if the crowns vary and don't line up to flush with each other, I just use a couple toenails to cinch them in snug. Have carpenters lost the skill of how to drive lumber with a toenail? Or am I on the wrong page?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Again, I'm no pro, but what I generally do (in the dozen or so cases where this has come up) is line up the ends and fasten, then use a small bar clamp (possibly with shims, to apply pressure to the right member) to pull the crowns into alignment.
It is an ironic habit of human beings to run faster when we have lost our way. --Rollo May
OK, I understand that is WHAT you do, but WHY go get a bar clamp or two out and take the time. I already have my hammer in my hand and nails in my pouch so I use them to toenail it over to flush.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Well, maybe because I don't understand what it is that you do. Or, since I'm not on the clock, I have the time to be a bit of a perfectionist about it.
It is an ironic habit of human beings to run faster when we have lost our way. --Rollo May
"maybe because I don't understand what it is that you do"Let's suppose that you have a double header to build - two 2x12 x 8'one of your 2x12s crowns up 1/4" and the other crowns up 3/4".Nail the ends flush with one another and yopu see the 1/2" diff in crowns at center. So with it laying at my feeet, and the one with the greater crown on top and the crown away from me, I start a toenail in the upper corner of it, angling back inot the other one - towards what is the bottom of the header opposite the crowns. As I sink this toenail and hit it one more time, that toenail will suck the heavy crown in the opposite direction. If it is a stiff one, I use 2-3 toenails striking them alternately to jack it over.You probably do the same thing with doublestuds or jacks and kings together to align them.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I do that too Piffin.Except for garage door headers where I'll be using a glulam so while everybody else is beating their brains out aligning edges and face nailing and putting their clamps away in preparation to set the durn thing i'll be done.No Tag
I guess I understand what you're saying, but, without a lot of practice, it would be hard for me to control. You're relying on the gap between the two boards to provide a "ramp" that will align them as the gap closes.
It is an ironic habit of human beings to run faster when we have lost our way. --Rollo May
I must not be explaining it well. There is no gap between them, no ramp.I align by eye or by feel.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I am with you on this one. I have never had to resort to clamps of any kind to get headers flush.
No mention of nailing one end and just flexing the board
into line from the other end.
A little over bend on the far end puts the middle where it needs
to be.
That's how I've always done it. Occasionally I need to call for a hand,
but usually I can find some boards that don't fight that hard. Never needed a clamp, granted I don't frame day in day out.
Yall got a lot of time to be messing with 3/4" crowned headerstock. That would qualify as cull to me. If forced to use it, I'd put the two together, flush on the ends and rip the crown off. I've never seen engineered products come out with crowns except for glulams and sometimes trusses which build the crown into their product. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Quote of the day: "...can't be done, it will take too long, not enough pipeline capacity, yada yada but yet they don't apply the same skepticism to their own "solutions" such as wind and biofuels"
I used 3/4" as a example to try to explain, thinking as I typed that I would put it in the cull pile for shorter header stock over windows and get a straighter one for the larger headers.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I knew that. I'm sure, you, like most people would skip the 3/4" crowned stock. I, on the other hand might bury it and do creative things with it other than rip it as I mentioned. It depends on the situation.I had a unique technique for fitting jacks to uneven headers on the bottom. So, whereas most people would object to the different header pieces being out of alignment on the bottom, I never batted an eye. My "tableless" saw was critical in this advanced fitting technique. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Quote of the day: "...can't be done, it will take too long, not enough pipeline capacity, yada yada but yet they don't apply the same skepticism to their own "solutions" such as wind and biofuels"
You can use a gap to your advantage if one is present, but it's not necessary.Basically you flush up the ends and place 4 or 5 nails. Then, working your way to the center, you would place toenails in the edge that is proud. These toenails, placed at the right location and angle, will flush the two edges of the boards.You're not going to close a 3/4" difference with one toenail, but I would bet that if you gave me a 12"x18' double LVL with a 3/4" crown, I could get them flush with using just my hammer and framing nails (both of which I already have close at hand) instead of going to get a clamp and messing with that.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
I wish I had a video of that. I'm not good at putting words into a picture of how it is done.
I'm shocked people here don't commonly use toenails to align boards. That's beam mashing 101.
Clamps are for sissies
Edited 8/12/2008 8:38 pm ET by fingersandtoes
Yep, right along with electric saws and drills (especially those really sissy battery operated ones), air nailers, decking pullers, wall jacks, forklifts, cranes and a dozen or so other items. ;-)
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Hmmm. If you put it that way, I guess I'm a sissy too.
It is not an everyday , day in day out use. I do the same as you most of the time.
But for those that call for extra measures I reach for the clamps.
I use a set of 2' clamps all the time on a big frame.
I couldn't even begin to list all the reasons they have been put to .
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
I use clamps when I have to fight crowns and when using multiple (more than 2) piece headers.
Easy and more secure than hand nailing or toe nailing for me in that I can pull pieces to align them and then nail off the entire header without worrying about anything moving.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
makes sense with a triple. I rarely have needed to do that, but now that I think on it, I did use the clamps on one triple once.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I probably measured wrong Piffin. It probably is 1 3/4, i'll find out when i get home.
Joe the lvls are 1 1/2 wide, the walls are 3 1/2 (2x4) .
Lvl's aren't 1-1/2" widfe, they're 1-3/4" wide.
If you're using something that's 1-1/2" wide, it's got to be a 2x. Even though your using a 1-1/2' 2x header you still don't need 1/2" plywood to make it 3-1/2" wide. If you want you can, I've never done that and you don't need to do that and make it flush. I doubt it's a code thing also. If you want to use plywood go ahead.
Joe Carola
You are correct Joe, my mistake. What technique do you use to get 2x's to 3 1/2 inches?
What technique do you use to get 2x's to 3 1/2 inches?
I don't. Never have. I nail the 2x's together and a 2x4 on the bottom and that's it.
Joe Carola
Inefficiencies abound!
While you guys are crowning and clamping, I have already finished doing a couple quick passes to straighten my twisted and crowned headers, on that little 854-pound 12-inch jointer that we hooked up with three-phase.
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"A stripe is just as real as a dadgummed flower."
Gene Davis 1920-1985
Yer funny! Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Quote of the day: "...can't be done, it will take too long, not enough pipeline capacity, yada yada but yet they don't apply the same skepticism to their own "solutions" such as wind and biofuels"
Yeah, but I bet you wrecked your blades on Piffin's toenails.
It is an ironic habit of human beings to run faster when we have lost our way. --Rollo May