Late last night I downloaded Johns (Bridges) new E-book on Kerdi sysyems for $10. Lotta good stuff in there but I have a question for youz guyz here in BT.
I’ll go back to John’s site after I speak w/my peeps over here : )
I’m framing in for another bathroom in one of my rooms today when I get off this damn puter,,lol.The room above my shop attached to my MB for those of you that’ve been here.
I was interested in the Kerdi system. The material isn’t particularly cheap but not as expensive as the Ditra stuff.
I’m thinking thats its a whole lot less expensive to just use some CBU on the walls w/felt paper behind it than the kerdi system.
Kerdi does seem bullet(water)proof but I’ve NEVER had a problem using cbu’s on my walls at all. So whats so great about the Kerdi walls?
Is it really worth using the adhesive on all the walls and wrapping it with Kerdi cloth? I haven’t totally read the entire book yet to be fair to kerdi and John. Just skimmed through it and looked at the photos.
In the photos below you can see where I’m framing in the floor where the shower will go. Its gonna be about 36″X 60″. Gonna install lead over 3/4″ ply subfloor and then pour my sloped mud job then tile. Gonna use glass block for the dividing wall. The entire bathroom will be approx 8’X 8′ with about 1′ under the flat part of the ceiling and the rest goes under the sloped part of the ceiling.
I’ll probably be doing all the plumbing in that bathroom and the room the bathrooms in myself. Fundings getting really tight. Any suggestions about the Kerdi walls go appreciated.
Thanks
a…
Replies
One of the benefits of the Kerdi system is that you use regular sheetrock instead of CBU as the wall substrate- bit easier to work with. Nothing wrong with CBU and felt paper, but Kerdi can go up faster. Especially true in odd shaped showers. On showers with exterior walls, theroretically, you could get some condensation issues at the vapor barrier; Kerdi membrane doesn't allow any moisture through, so there is no condenstion in the walls. Probably never an issue unless it is a heavily used shower.
Kerdi membrane is also an uncoupling membrane, so if there is movement in the framing (hence the substrate attached to it), less of a chance of failed grout and loose tiles.
With the pan, you don't need a preslope when using the KerDi drain, water can only seep down to just below the tiles, where it is stopped by the membrane. JB suggests that this will allow the shower to dry out between uses, cutting down on mold growth.
One thing I did not see addressed was that if you have blowout in the plumbing fixture in a wall made of sheetrock, you have a nice mess and unsupported tiles. I use DensArmour in this area; might help some.
hmj
thing is...I never had loose tile or failed grout and just "getting" the Kerdi seems like a bit of a hassle being I have to mail away for everything vs going right up to the store and in this case most of the rock is up anyway so I figured I'd just laminate it w/1/4" cbu or Dens...
I do need to look into the kerdi pan thing more though. Not familiar enough to say no yet...lol.
Thanks
a... http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Any reason you wouldn't use a PVC pan?
FWIW preslope is required and they are just now starting to inspect for that in my neck of the woods.
A can of special pan glue to augment the compression fit of the adjustable drain and then a standard mud base on the PVC pan.
PVC is CHEAP and you buy it by the foot off a big roll.
Check out FHB #141, p. 66, "Installing a Leakproof Shower Pan"
Any reason you wouldn't use a PVC pan?<<<<Hi Ralph...Around these here parts pvc isn't code. I have to use lead and then I preslope my mud and then tile. http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Have you considered DenShield instead of CB?
It doesn't really answer your question but it may be another option for you.
Andy,
If you are really comfortable with the CBU and money is an issue, I would suggest using Kerdi for the pan and CBU for the walls.
That way you get the bulletproof pan with the advantages hmj pointed out but you save a few bucks.
Just a thought.
Rich Beckman
This signature line intentionally left blank.
hey rich...With the irregular shaped shower floor I don't thin I could use the pan...right?
Plus...I never had a mud floor in a shower fail so I'm not understanding the big hub bub about the Kerdi thing. Don't really wanna post that over there cause they're soooooooo sold on it and they sell merch because of it like the books..etc etc.
I only like arguing here in BT...lol. http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Mr. Granaola wants to use lead. Are you kidding me? That is so old school and they don't last.
Do your preslope with mud over tarpaper. Then vinyl, then your drypack base. You could Kerdi over that, and that should keep water out of the drypack base.
DON'T Kerdi, or Denshield over tarpaper walls. The products themselves ARE the vapor barrier. I would not ever Keri over sheetrock although they say you can.
We use lots of Denshield. Properly detailed and installed, I think it is a good product.
36 x 60 is VERY close to an available base from Schluter. Their tub replacement is 32 x 60 I think. Might be worth checking out. Get the Schluter demo cd from your dealer or request it online. The system as a whole is bullet proof.
Eric
[email protected]
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
Eric...believe it or not lead is code here. Can't use PVC! Wish I could. Its a lot easier and cheaper. http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
32X60 is close but NO CIGAR so....
I didn't say Iwas gonna Kerdi over felt paper. Said I was gonna use 1/4" CBU over felt paper. Rocks already been put on the walls. This bathrooms an after thought I had so...
I already happen to have three sheets of 1/4" cbu so...its been sitting on the floor of my van three years now. Almost forgot it was there..lol.
Used it for a countertop I tiled for someone and had 3 left over : )
Mr Granola ? LOL.
I'm macrobiotic...don't eat granola...lol http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
I didn't say Iwas gonna Kerdi over felt paper.
I got that...........just tossed out the warning as due dilligence.
I can't believe the lead pan thing. As such, would they let you use the Schluter base?
And the preslope goes UNDER the pan, lead copper or otherwise. At least last time I heard!
Do yourself a favor and go buy some decent substrate that's a half inch thick.[email protected]
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
The Kerdi pan "kit" with the membrane, curb and grate are like four hundred bucks...whewwwwwww. Kinda steep.>>>Do yourself a favor and go buy some decent substrate that's a half inch thick.<<<
You talking about for the walls?
Why? You really think 1/4" CBU over felt which would be over the 5/8"
X-rated rock thats already there ain't enough???? I think it is...No??
Huh, wahhhh,.....wha?? lol http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Kerdi pan "kit" with the membrane, curb and grate are like four hundred bucks...whewwwwwww. Kinda steep.
I can build a wood curb for you, then do a preslope, then you can have a plumber come in and do your lead pan, then I will come back and float your mud base and wire lathe and skim up your curd ready for tile.
How much do you think that is all gonna cost? For $400.oo and a few hours of labor you have a superior product!
>>>Do yourself a favor and go buy some decent substrate that's a half inch thick.<<<You talking about for the walls?Why? You really think 1/4" CBU over felt which would be over the 5/8"X-rated rock thats already there ain't enough???? I think it is...No??Huh, wahhhh,.....wha?? lol
Ooooo.........x rated sheetrock...........can I come over?? Watch you don't get thrown in the slammer like I did! I might even be in violation of my parole for reading this.
Andy, I've never seen anyone install CBU over SR. What happens when the cbu starts wicking up h2o? And what do you do with the difference in thickness where your water walls meet your dry walls?[email protected]
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
OK...forget everything..lol...Been looking to see if I can change my plan and do a 4'X4' pan instead. Could be possible especially if I can cut the Kerdi pan a bit shorter on one side...or not even, I have to refigure this now.
Far as the CBU over rock...no biggie anyway..one wall I used 5/8 X rated and the other I used 1/2" MR..I still think one could put felt over the rock then cbu with no moisture getting behind it but its no biggie to cut out one wall of rock where the MR "isn't"...but like I said...I'm gonna see if I can modify my plan anyway being I haven't framed it yet. Its gonna be close but I've been reading the http://WWW.tile-experts.com site...and would like to try it if possible.
No nothin' under the pre sloped pan other than ply sub floor then thinset to the pan bottom huh?
I'll "absorb" this all (so to speak...lol) before the nights up...lol. http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Hey, don't forget nuthin. We're having a conversation here, right?
No nothin' under the pre sloped pan other than ply sub floor then thinset to the pan bottom huh?
You have to watch the video. It's a cool system, and it WATERPROOF when done properly.
BTW, with the Schluter pan, you MUST trim equal from all four sides.
And while your at it, check this out. Saw it at JLC last year. You coming this year?? I hear that Mike is buying lunch again!! Hahahhaha!
Tile Redi - Water Proof Shower Pans
http://www.tileredi.com/pages/shower_pans.htm[email protected]
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
eric...yeh, I've seen those bases for quite awhile now. Not sure if its the same company I know of but I have seen them before.
I'd much rather try the kerdi system which is why I bought that book from John last night and as I said to Gene...it really wasn't the money but more the size I was working with. Even Johns moderator said he thought I should do mud considering the odd shape but like I said to you and Gene...the reason I posted this here and the reason I boughtthe book was cause I DID wanna use the system.
Gotta refigure it tomorrow and make a cpl of calls.The JLC show? Doubt it but I have been thinking about it.
If you pick me up in Stans whirly bird when he comes to get you I'm definatly in...lol http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
and oh yeh...forget to mention...Its Bush's fault...LOL http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Oh come to JLC for the freebies!
"Recession means that people's incomes, at the employer level, are going down, basically, relative to costs, people are getting laid off."
Bushism quote for Tuesday January 16, compliments of Calvin.[email protected]
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
eric
just a bit of info for you. I "think" it was you that said if you cut one side of the pan you have to cut all 4 sides the same?
Spoke with a kerdi person and they told me you can cut one side as long as you cut the opposite side as well and on a 4' pan going beyond 3' is pushing it so from what I gather you can make a 4x4 into a 3x4 or whatever. Just passing that on.
I'm thinking I could fit a 40ish" x 48" in this particular shower which is why I asked them about this.
Later
andy... http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
That was me Andy.
And interesting information as well. Definitely contradicts what I understood.
Consider this; the pan is a certain thickness at it's edges. As you remove or cut away material from this edge (moving towards the center) the thickness diminishes.
I'm gonna have to go and check this out for myself.
Thanks for the tip.
Eric[email protected]
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
Well don't take that ti ptoo seriously YET b/c in John's (Bridges) kerdi book he DOES say you have to cut all four sides but I called the company he recommends buying Kerdi stuff from today and they said I CAN cut just two sides so I posted AGAIN to John this evening and told him what the http://WWW.Tile-Experts.Com said to me. I mighta gotten a lunatic on the phone...lol. I DID exxplain it to him several times and I DID say to him "so that means I can then use the pan which'd end up being 40x48"..right"? and he definatly said yes. I still don't know I believe that so I posted to John again tonight.
I know you could cut it to 40" sq then add 4" of deck mud to each side but that makes little sense...at that point I'd just use the kerdi drain and mix my own deck mud.
Make life easy and buy bags of premixed and add two shovels of playground sand to one shovel of pre mixed to get a 5:1ish ratio or better.
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Call me anal, but I like my sloped shower pans to have a level perimeter. Really level.
I also like my slopes to be precise, with little valleys coming in from corners to the drain. The only way I can do it with deck mud is to screed the perimeter and the valleys. Even then, it is not easy to be as precise as one of these molded Schluter pans is.
The ideal preform cutdown has like amounts taken off all edges, but, hey, who has a pan for every shower, and whose shower can take a preformed pan right off the shelf?
It boils down to geometry, sorta like roof cutting does, so I used my favorite geometry tool, Sketchup, to do a little study.
The picture is of a pan that started off as a 36 x 48, with a center drain, the slope going from 1" thickness at the edges, down 1/4" at the center. Maybe I should have pitched it more, but that is enough to get water to the drain in my shower.
More would not have affected this much, though.
You can see in the pic that the chop, a 4" cutoff, results in a cut edge that has a little slope down at each corner, until the "valley line" is intersected.
That little fallaway, in this example, is a little less than 1/16".
Try and get your mud pan that precise. Go ahead.
View Image
So I would say that as long as your trimming isn't too severe, go ahead, trim away on two sides.
That little fallaway, in this example, is a little less than 1/16".
Try and get your mud pan that precise. Go ahead.
Oh c'mon Gene...............I can get it pretty close to that!!
Was it you that used to be Mr. Micro, or was that someone else!
I admire a lot of what you do and you knowledge is vast, but you crack me up sometimes.
A sixteenth aint got no worries on a mud base.
And just so you know that I don't throw them out (1/16"). The builder I apprenticed with taught me a valuable lesson I hold on to still today. While his mason was laying up block, my boss would check the corners for him with the builders level. He would read sixteenths on the rule and the mason would scoff, consistently.
He told me that it's no big deal to loose ONE sixteenth someplace, but they do add up and if you keep giving away one here, and one there, you will be in trouble soner than later.
Snowing u there? We've got our first..1/2". Snow shoes are still warm and toasty damit![email protected]
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
John Bridge's reply to my statement/question was:
>>Cutting the Kerdi-tray, simply a difference of oppinion between me and my buddy Dave Taylor of Tile Experts. <<
So there ya go.
And another interesting thing was that someone from up the road a piece from me saw my post and commented that we're neighbors and verified the fact that code around here is "lead bases". How lame! Wonder why. i know its code but could never figure out why.
I figure a sheet of clear plastic under deck mud is plenty sufficient w/Kerdi over it but noooooooooooooo...not around here. Hey, this job is on my own house so : ) http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
I'd check with the Building Dept on that. That is VERY antiquated.
Good luck.
Eric[email protected]
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
I feel like I'm cheating on someone...lol...been hanging out in Johns Forum more than in BT...lol Neocons'll love this...lol~What do John F. Kennedy, Martin Luther King Jr, Robert F. Kennedy, and John Lennon have in common?~http://www.john-lennon.net/whoauthor...johnlennon.htm
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
I go to the John Bridge site, also, for tile-specific inquiries. IMHO, the audience and contributors are completely focused on the topic, so the likelihood of getting more and varied replies from pros is greater than it is here at Breaktime.
Likewise, for hot-water heating issues, I go to HeatingHelp.com's "The Wall" site.
I hope you use Kerdi over sheetrock for your walls, and the Kerdi drain plus Kerdi for your pan membrane, and if you do, you post some pics and comments here when done. I haven't done it myself, but it is all I have had done by others for showers and baths, for my last three projects. My partner's no tile pro, but he can do a Kerdi membrane job just fine, and it is easy to do solo.
While you are at it, try this. Make yourself an open-top cube from some 12 x 12 scraps of OSB or plywood, and Kerdi the inside surfaces. It is a little tedious doing the joints and corners, but it is a nice little exercise for technique.
When you are happy with your box membrane job, let it cure, then fill it with water. If you have done a good job, the water will sit there for years without any leaks developing. Top it up once in a while to refill from evaporation loss. It'll be a reminder to you that you never want to do another shower or tub surround without Kerdi.
Thanks Gene...yeh...great site and Johns a real nice guy!! I'm definatly going to be using the Kerdi fabric and drain. Still up in the air aboutt he pan. It'll be a lst minute decission...lol. I have no problem doing a deck mud pan and thats probably the way to go considering the size but it sure is still tempting to use their pan for only $60 and adding some mud to both sides. We'll see.
Good idea on the box!!! Cept' I think I'll make a vase instead and keep flowers in it...really. Cool idea. Thanks!! : )
Course I'll take pic so everyone can critique me...might even throw in a Bush commnet just to rile things up a bit...lol.
Why doesn't Bush send his daughters to Iraq? God forbid...LOL..sorry, couldn't help myself : )~ Neocons'll love this...lol~What do John F. Kennedy, Martin Luther King Jr, Robert F. Kennedy, and John Lennon have in common?~http://www.john-lennon.net/whoauthor...johnlennon.htm
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
This should be in the Tavern, but here goes. Why doesn't our junior U.S. senator send her daughter Chelsea to Baghdad to begin negotiations on the "political solution" the dems all seem to think is the answer?
Ain't she a Stanford grad just like Condi?
And if the "political solution" is the answer, why didn't Madame roll up her sleeves and do some work on it when in Baghdad last week? What exactly did she do there except have a coffee and take a pee break? Did we pay for her air fare and security contingent so she could make the trip?
Edited 1/20/2007 11:51 am ET by Gene_Davis
I totally agree!!!! They all seem to be all talk...for a change.
I think I might need to go over there and bidtch slap EVERYONE for acting like
A-holes...lol. Neocons'll love this...lol~What do John F. Kennedy, Martin Luther King Jr, Robert F. Kennedy, and John Lennon have in common?~http://www.john-lennon.net/whoauthor...johnlennon.htm
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Two questions. Is the Kerdi basically the same as the Nobleseal TS?
The reason I ask is I have done several shower pans using Noble's Chloraloy, which worked fine. I am now planning to do my next project with the Nobleseal TS. I would like to know how the overlaps using the Kerdi fabric hold in water. I assume that the thinset between the layers would allow water through.
With the Nobleseal TS, my plan was to use their Noble Sealant 150 in the seams.
Also, my normal plan would be to use 15# felt on the studs, covered with backerboard. Does this installation still need a layer of the Kerdi or Nobleseal TS up to the height of the shower head?
Thanks for any info. I have found articles and manufacturers' instructions to be a bit confusing and prefer not to learn the hard way which method is best.
Gene...I totally agree. Personally I think cutting the two sides looks like crap (to me) and at that point you may as well do deck mud. I never found doing a mud job to be a problem what so ever. The Kerdi drain DOES make the job a whole lot easier in spite of it costing over a hundred bucks w/shipping. Spose it's worth the 20 bucks shipping if you're ordering a buncha fabric etc as well.Also I usually make my pitch just about like you have it,,,amybe a bit steeper. On a 4' shower I did here I have about a light inch at the drain from the perimeters. Just makes me feel better and you hardly notice it at all. http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Gene...after checking out the video/tutorial om the Kerdi site I noticed that the pan doesn't really have any valleys in it. Its more a shallow bowl kinda thing. And yeh, that'd still be uneven cutting off two sides but a whole lot less noticeable than if it were real valley lines.
My guess is one could make up that little bit fudging around a little with the thinset.
I donno...still kinda stuck on playing in the mud though...lol http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
It's a bit befuddling until you get it all figured out upstairs.
It's NOT how we used to do it.
I use Sakrete Sand Mix (no lime) in the GREEN bags. I use it straight for mud bases. Correct amount of h2o IS critical. It is a bit rich but I have no problems.
Eric
If you want to do mud and you have any questions don't hesitate to gve me a call.
9149535306[email protected]
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
Andy, if you are trying to get to the bottom dollar, then don't use the Schluter products on your walls or pan. Use lead, or pitch, or whatever they used in Roman empire days.
Schluter ain't the cheapest.
But if you're in the biz of paying yourself, or your jobsite labor, to do shower after shower after tub surround after tub surround, you need to get on the Schluter bandwagon.
Even if you have to mail order it.
And why you cannot drive somewhere local and buy it is beyond me, given you're on Long Island.
Why don't you phone Dan Wagner of Schluter, 1-888-472-4588, and tell him you are waterproofing-challenged, and living in an apparent Schluter-free zone. See what he says.
Thanks Gene...yeh...I already have the number and the Ebook I bought last night.
The main reason I wasn't going with Kerdi wasn't so much the price but the sizes they had. After relooking at tile-experts.com site I see the 4x4 and its possible I can make that fit so I'm gonna check it all out tomorrow. I'll have to reconfigure my plan if possible but like I said I haven't framed the inside walls yet so... 32x32 is no good at all nor is the 32x60...at all. 48x48 is a good possibility though...and I did hear while in Johns site last night how helpful the video and tech support is so....onward : )
Thanks bro
a... http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Andy me boy,
I'm a big fan of Kerdi.
But you can save yourself the cost of the Kerdi pan by just doing a standard deck mud preslope and Kerdi-ing right over that.
You'll still need a Kerdi Drain.
I did a 5' by 8' Walk-in shower, I used cement board on the walls and ceilings, built in a large 2-shelf niche (about 32" wide), and did a drypack preslope with Kerdi Drain.
Kerdi membrane over all of it. Also Kerdied a small raised toweling off area outside of the shower.
Tiled over the Kerdi.
Used about one full roll of membrane. You don't need any preformed or precut corners. Easy to cut your own pieces from scrap membrane. Same with Kerdi Band. I used regular Kerdi for laps.
Roll and Drain ran me about $400, best prices I found were through: TileProtection.com
Easy to use, goes up like wallpaper.
Best thing about Kerdi is that it's a bulletproof vapor barrier. It keeps the wetting to just the grout and th etile. No deep wetting, no worries about secondary drain holes, etc. No worries about the pan holding up.
Condensed version?
No worries!
BE orange,
Mongo
Thanks a buncha Mongo,
Looks like I better read the E-book I bought last night and see whats the best route for me to go far as the pan vs sloped mud goes.
I guess the thing I'm not 100% understanding is why would you use CBU walls then go over it with an additional $400 worth of Kerdi? Why not just rock it like they say, then Kerdi it???? The presloped pan I can understand along w/kerdi over rock....
I understand it makes it 100% waterproof but I haven't ever ever ever had a problem using "just" cbu with 30# felt behind it as I've always done in the past.
I also can understand if I can make a 48"X48" pan work...for about $400 or less I can get the whole system which includes the pan, curb, kerdi, drain and a roll of band. Avoiding doing the mud slope base seems to make it worth it that way but adding $400 to go over the CBU's and mud base I ain't gettin' being I never had a problem before with water leaks.
I must be think'r sumpin'.
andy... http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
No you're not overthinking it.Some still fret thinking about gypsum board in a shower, even if it is covered with a membrane like Kerdi. I'm one of them. Are my worries justified? Not really, just CBU habits that refuse to die, I suppose.CBU vs drywall? Heck, I prefer CBU. I suppose to me it feels better putting something that water can't damage in a shower, even if it'll supposedly never get wet. Again, unjustified worries.Drywall would be fine, though, it is an accepted practice.If you use a preformed Kerdi pan, be particular about getting the drain location so it matches the hole in the pan.If you have access from underneath, that's great. It's a little easier to mud in the drain, then come back after the mud has cured to attach the trap and waste run to the drain, then it is to glue in the drain while you're mudding it in.One of the nice things about the Kerdi drain is that the top portion is slightly adjustable, both vertically and laterally. It helps when tweaking the drain to match the tile layout.I agree, cbu with felt behind it is a pretty good system. We've done it so many times with no worries.Have no worries if you use the kerdi foam pan, foam curb, drywall, then kerdi the entire shebang.Mongo
OK Mongo...Cool...Just watched the entire video on the Kerdi site. One video usingtheir pan and one using mud. NOW I really understand whats shakin'! Along with your answers to my questions.
I CAN understand why you do it the way you do. I'm exactly the same way you are about most things. I usually over do everything...lol. Better safe than sorry plus I feel better about the job.
I guess what I was thinking was if I were to price a shower for a customer my price vs another contractors price would be a lot different. A LOTTTT different. I'd have to sell the Kerdi system which is fine but you know how that goes sometimes...anyway. Now I get it...whewwwwwww.
The mud job seems like the way I might go. Have to weigh it out.
I've never thought a mud job for the pan was a big deal and with their drain and kerdi layer it seems evena bit easier. No need for a lead pan or vinyl under the mud it seems. Hope that meets code though.
OK...so now I'll have to price the kerdi fabric out from the different sites is all. the 4x4 pan is about $60 and the drain system is about $90.
Don't really need their curb but I'll have to think about the accesories tomorrow...oh shid...it is tomorrow,,,ugh,
Nite dude
a... http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
and 216 sq ft of fabric is just under $300
nite **** http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Beautiful work!!
Very nice.
How much tile work do you do?[email protected]
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
Thanks Eric. Nope, I don't do much tile at all. The bear with that shower was that there isn't a single tile in that shower that has not been cut. The creams started as about 13" squares, the blacks as 12" squares.My Felker was my friend on that one.MongoEdited 1/18/2007 9:37 pm ET by Mongo
Edited 1/18/2007 9:40 pm ET by Mongo
Man, that is really nice work. Your place or for a customer? Whichever, you are an Official BT Bad-azz Tile Dude.
I'm starting a Kerdi shower next week, my first one. Client is happy to pay more for a shower that will not retain nearly as much moisture as a traditional one.
Thanks, it's my house.First time using Kerdi, you'll like it. Goes fast, and takes a lot of the worry out of your work.Mongo
Mongo...came back tonight to look your pictures over again. Gorgous work dude.
I can totally understand using cbu's for the walls. I too over build things. Thing is..in this house I'm selling it and at this point every cent counts. Not like I'm doing anything wrong...just not going all out is all.I ALWAYS have used cbu's for all my tile work but w/the Kerdi that seems to be one of the advantages of it...."not" having to cut up cb's and like I said...time is money on this project.
On your curbs...do you bother with Keedi curbs or do you just put 2x's together? Kerdi curbs arent all that expensive and look like they'd be a pleasure to work with. The curbs are styrofoam like the Dow insulation boards I'm guessing? If so...doesn't that have give to it when you stand on it or not enough to matter?
Do you ever bother with their molded inside corners? Looks like they only come in white. Not so sure I care for that look but it is nice to know it exists for customer choices.Also when you tile ceilings what do you use as your adhesive?
For me, the last one I did I was using a Taiwan green 12x12 marble tile.
I did the ceiling first. I screwed some 2x4 runners up against the opposing walls about 3" down from the cb ceiling. I used thinset on the ceiling boards and back buttered each tile as well and stuck up a row. I then slid a 2x3 ontop of the 2x's I had screwed to the walls and used shims where necessary to even my tiles to adjoining tiles.
Was actually easier than it sounds and I was left with a rock solid ceiling!
Wondered how other people did it.
edit: oh, and by the way...that website you gave me WAS cheaper than the one John Bridges gives...not tremendously but cheaper none the less.
On the entire package unit if one goes that route...that WAS a whole lot cheaper!! Not sure I can do that now anyway being the pan wont work the way I want it and will probably do deck mud...ugh...just when you think you have your mind made up sumpin' always comes up..lol.
Better now than after the fact...especially when using some new product like this is for me.And I'm thinking that now that I know about Kerdi...how can I ever do a tile job with out it...yet for 30 years my tile jobs have been fine..no leaks no nuttin'...lol.Always something to spend more money...lol.
Hey...at least you know you're spending your money on something thats rock solid! http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Edited 1/18/2007 8:14 pm ET by andybuildz
Thanks for the compliments.
I do solid mud curbs. Just form 'em up, pack it in, and there you go. The Kerdi curbs are a high-density foam so compression isn't supposed to be an issue. I've never used on, but have talked to guys that have. They like them for the speed of installation.
Cut it to length, thinset it down, cover it with Kerdi, tile, grout, and go home.
On the ceilings I used a slightly modified thinset, I'm fairly certain I used Versabond on that one. I struck layout lines for every third run of tile, then back buttered, and set then in place. They stuck great. No drooping or dropping.
I swear TileProtection used to be even cheaper. Single rolls of Kerdi used to be around $324. I bought a 3-roll pack of Ditra a few months back, I think the prices do seem a bit higher. They're good though, good on communications, and fast to ship.
I agree with Kerdi, It cost a few bucks more, but it's offset by what I think is a better installation and somewhat faster job progress. Especially if you were to go over drywall and omit the CBU.
Almost forgot, the preformed corners. I've used them but came to not like them. One issue was that the seam is thermally fused, as such it's raised up just a bit. Seomtimed that fused seam would stick up out of the mud and catch my trowel when I was setting them in place.
Add to that the inside corners of the niche for instance. With the shelves pitched just a bit, it's not a true 90-degree inside corner, so when bedding them in thinset the geometricall perfect preformed corners sometimes pull themselves out of the thinset due to deflection.
Neither of those are major negatives, but you asked.<!----> Regardless, I used a few in the niche, then on the floor I changed over to folded squares.
In the attached pic, you can see the slightly protruding fused seam on the front face of the corner piece, it looks like a 45-degree miter.
Mongo
View Image<!---->
That doesn't sound like a good plan to me. Exactly how are you going to build up the tile to be level around all four sides? It would be easier to build a mortar preslope. If you set it up carefully the actually mortar placement and finishing is very easy. I just did one yesterday, and would much rather do that than try to build up tiles on differing amounts of thinset.
For an installation 36x59 you could use three 60lb sacks of Sand/Topping Mix from Quickcrete and about 100 lbs of all-purpose sand and be done with it.
You can do that, but you'll end up with about a 3/16th" difference in height between adjacent sides of the pan, and the "valley" that normally runs from the corner of the shower to the drain won't hit the exact corner fo the shower.To make up for the 3/16th" difference, drop the bottom course of tile so that a whole tile hits the lowest edge of the pan (taking into consideration the thickness of the floor tile and thinset), then straike a level line around the perimeter of the shower so that line is at the height of the top of that whole tile.Then cut the bottoms of the bottom course of tile as required so that the tops of the bottom course of tile hit that level line on all four walls.If the cut tiles may look out of place, consider using an alternative tile (different color, material) as a contrasting "baseboard" for the bottom course of wall tile.Then tile up the walls as neccessary.There are a couple other ways to skin this one, but that's the easiest.A deck mud preslope? They're a bit of work, but they work. And they're good with Kerdi, as you just need a single thickness of preslope covered by the membrane, not multiple layers of deck mud (preslope below the membrane, tiling layer above) as required when using a "traditional" CPVC or CPE membrane. Mongo
abutcher...well it looks like these guys beat me to it with good answers.
In my situation as it turns out I'm only gonna have one side thats off just a little so I figure I can fudge that little bit especially after seeing the valley's aren't as deep as I thought they might be.
I was gonna just do deck mud like I usually do but I really wanted to play with the Kerdi pan...lol.
Personally if I were in your situation and there was that much of a difference I'd do deck mud but then again I've done quite a few mud jobs over the years and I'm real comfortable with that so...
Good luck dude...I'm sure you'll do a great job. Post pictures!
PO "I dunno guys. Methinks some people have way too much extra time on their hands". Jer
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Thanks everyone for the advice. I will start posting pictures under the photo gallery soon.
Anthony
Hey Andy, Totally unrelated but what are you using the japan drier for? Oil paint?
Hey Andy, Totally unrelated but what are you using the japan drier for? Oil paint?<<<<LOL...I thought someone was gonna ask.
I had to do some touch up staining on my deck railings I installed just when it was getting too cold to do that so I added a little Japan dryer to speed it up a little.It worked great btw : )
PO "I dunno guys. Methinks some people have way too much extra time on their hands". Jer
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM