Project I was on last week; the countertop guys were there installing Ceaser or some type of solid surface.
Foreman was making/completing the cooktop cutout with a highspeed right angle grinder with a 5″ diamond blade…………….
I did not see it happen, but he must have had his face quite close to what he was cutting.
Chin, both lips and nose and face, really, really nasty. He must have bled at least a cup or two.
Got the word later on that teeth and bone were possibly involved as well.
I’ve seen my share of gore and amputations and sights like this hang with me for weeks.
Trick question. Other that having a gaurd on the saw, what piece of safety equipment might have saved him from injury?
BE CAREFUL!
“When the spirits are low, when the day appears dark, when work becomes monotonous, when hope hardly seems worth having, just mount a bicycle and go out for a spin down the road, without thought on anything but the ride you are taking.” — Sherlock Holmes, 1896
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Goalie mask?
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Got to wondering why they don't put blade brakes on those things..........
"When the spirits are low, when the day appears dark, when work becomes monotonous, when hope hardly seems worth having, just mount a bicycle and go out for a spin down the road, without thought on anything but the ride you are taking." — Sherlock Holmes, 1896
A full face shield would have been helpful, it would have at least reduced the damage.
Also a brain would have helped. I always (well, nearly) evaluate what would happen if I screw up. I think he may have been watching the blade as he was cutting toward his face.
the brain's the 1st thing that should be engaged. Should use saftey glasses with the face shield as well.
I know what you mean by these things hanging with you. Watched a guy fall about 30' and it hung with me (didn't realize it at the time) until I went and visited him in the hospital. It helped clear my last images of him falling and being life-flighted.
So long as the corner doesn't have to be radiused, why not a plunge saw with a solid surface blade?
You're out $700 or so to start, but what's a new set of choppers and some reconstructive surgery run these days?
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Yeah, one of the several thoughts that occured to me afterward was that there must be a better way to cut this stuff than an angle grinder. Of all the outfits I've seen doing installs, they all use angle grinders.
A skilsaw type of tool with a dust extractor or a wet blade and water supply.
"When the spirits are low, when the day appears dark, when work becomes monotonous, when hope hardly seems worth having, just mount a bicycle and go out for a spin down the road, without thought on anything but the ride you are taking." — Sherlock Holmes, 1896
To all..........I see all of these outfits using angle grinders to do cut outs. Got to be a better way.
The one piece of safety equipment I was thinking of is a full mask respirator. Blade may have stopped or been deflected.
Typically I don't even see these guys wearing nuisance dust masks.
Where the hell are their employers?
"When the spirits are low, when the day appears dark, when work becomes monotonous, when hope hardly seems worth having, just mount a bicycle and go out for a spin down the road, without thought on anything but the ride you are taking." — Sherlock Holmes, 1896
""Where the hell are their employers?"" Probably off being busy fighting OSHA involvement in the work place and complaining about big government interference in the free market place and how much workmens comp costs them on a daily basis.
Life is Good
They are often one and the same.
Where the hell are their employers?
Just curious, doesn't this go on the general contractors safety record i.e. insurance report?
Who was running the jobsite? Seems important to keep an eye on and police the subs on the job.
Super or foreman sees usafe practices and stops the operation. Mike
Small wheel turn by the fire and rod, big wheel turn by the grace of god.
These guys work for the countertop outfit. I'd hesitate to call them subs..........I doubt if the GC has much responsibility or liability over guys that are not on his payroll.
I would say that it is THEIR bosses fault for not enforcing proper safety rules. The accident will go on his insurance after all.
"When the spirits are low, when the day appears dark, when work becomes monotonous, when hope hardly seems worth having, just mount a bicycle and go out for a spin down the road, without thought on anything but the ride you are taking." — Sherlock Holmes, 1896
Unfortunately that isn't the way it works.
The GC and his site super are responsible in the eyes of the law. One of the eye openers for me when I first worked as a site super on commercial was that I could be PERSONALLY held responsible for safety violations. This bit of heartening news came from our companies insurance carrier.( "You are the God of the jobsite and as such will be held responsible for all the good and bad that occurs on it" is the way he phrased it.)
Here is an article that deals with the subject of supers and GCs being held responsible.
http://contractormag.com/law/cm_column_32/
And another one instructing design build and engineers on how to avoid the responsibility that comes with being the GC or their representative.
http://www.vgic.com/Portals/0/JobSafetyPart2_6.08.pdf
Life is Good
Their employers are wealthy, naturalized Chinese who undercut all local competition, by importing illegal labor.
They are successful, well, because they undercut all local competition.
Don't worry too much about the hurt guy, we all paid for his emergency room care. Maybe bought him a ticket back to Shanghai as well.
Do you guys have any connection to reality at all?
skipj
Well I must have missed that part of the original post
Do you guys have any connection to reality at all?
Not to your privately defined reality. Best of luck Skippy. Mike
Small wheel turn by the fire and rod, big wheel turn by the grace of god.
Rona, in Canada, occasionally has in stock guards for angle grinders that look and function like a circular saw, base plate, and cover ... I agree with the other poster that the T handle goes a long way into getting a grip on the grinder .. 2 years ago in Ottawa there was a guy cut himself bad (neck? hand?) while doing some brick pointing work ... everyone went home that day and dug out the blade guards and handles ..
Your tinfoil hat has a hole in it.
I'm confuesed, you mentioned Ceasar which I know as a Quartz countertop.
Was this solid surface or quartz/stone?
We use an angle grinder for quartz and stone but it shouldn't really ever "kick" unless it binds. Either way the angle grinder is easier to manuever than a saw but I doubt I'd ever try to put my face next to it.
Over here "solid surface" refers to anything synthetic or natural just not laminate or tile.
I think that if you twist or cock the machine it can kickback. The bigger ones have quite a bit of torque too.
"When the spirits are low, when the day appears dark, when work becomes monotonous, when hope hardly seems worth having, just mount a bicycle and go out for a spin down the road, without thought on anything but the ride you are taking." — Sherlock Holmes, 1896
We have a 5" Makita and I've never had a bit of kick back. The only way I can see it happening is the top or the cook top were not adequately supported while making the cut, the stone flexed, the blade bound up, and when it released or was pulled on it shot back.
The only way I can see it happening is the top or the cook top were not adequately supported while making the cut, the stone flexed, the blade bound up, and when it released or was pulled on it shot back.
I think that you are correct.
"When the spirits are low, when the day appears dark, when work becomes monotonous, when hope hardly seems worth having, just mount a bicycle and go out for a spin down the road, without thought on anything but the ride you are taking." — Sherlock Holmes, 1896
Solid surface, I would use a router. For sink cut outs we use a roto zip and then the radius bits. But a cooktop needs to be two layers, so the roto zip wouldn't work. A jig saw would probably work as well, but the router would be my first choice. But caesar is a quartz based solid surface, so I think you are right about the plunge saw. I think the jig saw would still work though.
Poor man. He has probably done it hundreds of times. Those are the jobs that end up biting you back.
Terrible. I hate hearing about stuff like this.
...and to think that we (the developed world) are the safest place to work. I can't imagine what else happens around the world on a daily basis.I wish him well.
Scott.
Saw a programme about building an apartment complex in Bulgaria. All the framers were using angle grinders with 7 1/4" blades rather than circular saws.
It's easy to make seat cuts and such with that setup, but they are probably missing some fingers and toes.
Right, probably without any sort of guards either....now that I think about it, you couldn't even get a guard on with that setup.
Edited 10/25/2009 4:45 pm by Scott
I just don't get kickbacks any more. Knock on wood.
I've gotten my fair share in the past but just "know" when what I'm doing is iffy.
I can't remember when I had the last one.
Sure, I get little ones that are controlled. But not big un-controlled ones.
I know you said he was the foreman so he should have a lot of experience.
But all I can say is I learned over the years. Maybe age does have it's benefits?
I've been grinding welds lately. The 4" grider sure does spin fast! Does it have to spin quite that fast?
I do have a guard on it. Keeps the sparks from hitting me!
Will Rogers
Edited 10/25/2009 4:51 pm by popawheelie
Sometimes no matter how experienced and careful you are, things go wrong.
I kinda re-enacted in my mind what might have happened............you have to keep a stiff arm on a tool like that and pay keen attention to what you are doing. Loosen up the muscles or look over there and you stand a good chance of ending up like that guy did.
"When the spirits are low, when the day appears dark, when work becomes monotonous, when hope hardly seems worth having, just mount a bicycle and go out for a spin down the road, without thought on anything but the ride you are taking." — Sherlock Holmes, 1896
Diamond blade?
I've nicked myself a few times with one, but never got
opened up in any serious way.
This is a good heads up for me thanks.
I'm careful of course, the diamond blade blade was kind
of low on my terror list.
sounds like a good job for the Dual saw, or twinsaw, I recently got.
It WON"T kickback, and they have Hardie blades I think, as well as diamond.
ETA:
Omni Dual Saw â„¢ - Parts & Accessories
Now you can get a set of 2 Diamond Blades specifically designed for the Omni Dual Saw. The Diamond Blades are easily changed with the key tool provided. ...http://www.asseenontvnetwork.com/dualcart/ - Cached - Similar -
Dual Saw – It Cuts Both Ways | As Seen on TV Network Blog
For those wondering about the kind of cuts typically reserved for a wet saw, Dual Saw also comes with Diamond Blades, allowing it to cut ceramics, stone, ...blog.asseenontvnetwork.com/.../dual-saw-–-it-cuts-both-ways/ - Cached - Similar -
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Edited 10/25/2009 6:49 pm ET by Sphere
Cool saw. $400.00 bucks... Can I borrow yours? PS
I got a FireFox warning on that first sight- "Poor Reputation". Whatever that really means.
I got the Sears.
FREE, just paid shipping from Memphis.
Ain't played much with it yet, but I was thinking about that kickback.
FFox says that about a lot of sites, I didn't go there, just copies from Google.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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Let me know how it works out. I seem to cut all sorts of stuff a lot.
I've had a few nicks from a diamond blade but never a "bad" cut. Could have been the shear force of it kicking back more than anything that cut the guy.
That would make sense. I've made contact with the diamond way to many times and it has
never done me serious harm.
no guard???
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
no, it makes it difficult to see what you are cutting.
"When the spirits are low, when the day appears dark, when work becomes monotonous, when hope hardly seems worth having, just mount a bicycle and go out for a spin down the road, without thought on anything but the ride you are taking." — Sherlock Holmes, 1896
dumb....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints"
>>>dumb....Really? That's easy to say. Even me, the DIY neophyte that I am, doesn't always use guards. Do you? Most of the pros that I know don't.I know, it's a culture of tough guys; but I hate to see someone get hurt that bad. It can wreck a guy's life. Permanently.Scott
Edited 10/25/2009 11:47 pm by Scott
my guards stay on....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints"
Gauds on an angle grinder doing countertop cut outs can be more dangerous than without. It impairs your site line and can get in the way of the cut.
A diamond blade is not an overly dangerous weapon if you little common sense.
I think the bigest safety feature on an angle grinder is the screw on handle. Every now and then I remember then take the time to dig it out of the box and screw it on. Usually have it off as every other cut it's in the way. So far haven't had any accidents, but have noticed each and every time the blade has pinched or jumped I did not have a solid grip on the handle, as the handle wasn't installed at the time.
Two hands on an angle grinder seems three times as safe as my usual one hand grip.
Angle grinders can wreak some havoc. I will never forget the day I saw a guy on the job plug in an angle grinder with the trigger lock still engaged. He didn't check it before he plugged it in and could not get it unplugged before if flipped off the table and hit him in leg. The grinding wheel cut all the way to the bone before it fell to the ground. Happened in a matter of seconds. After that day I always check to make sure the trigger lock is off when I plug in a power tool. I never really thought about it before that day.Steve
Even seemingly pretty safe tools can bite you if they are in the mood. I remember a discussion here on how many of us had their shirt snagged by belt sanders. The only ones who didn't admit to it were probably just too embarrassed.
I wonder how difficult it would be to design tools so that the trigger lock (or power switch) automatically disengages/tuns off whenever the tool is unplugged.
I bet it wouldn't really cost much and could be a real significant safety feature on tools like portable table saws.