FHB Logo Facebook LinkedIn Email Pinterest Twitter X Instagram Tiktok YouTube Plus Icon Close Icon Navigation Search Icon Navigation Search Icon Arrow Down Icon Video Guide Icon Article Guide Icon Modal Close Icon Guide Search Icon Skip to content
Subscribe
Log In
  • How-To
  • Design
  • Tools & Materials
  • Restoration
  • Videos
  • Blogs
  • Forum
  • Magazine
  • Members
  • FHB House
  • Podcast
Log In

Discussion Forum

Discussion Forum

Kitchen Cabinet Remodel Idea

bmyyou | Posted in General Discussion on March 13, 2009 04:27am

Is it possible to redo these overlay-style kitchen cabinets (see pics) and make them with inset doors and drawers?  Last year I saw Norm Abram nail a mitered bead/trim piece to the inside of the cabinet frame, so I was thinking that I could do the same and clean up the exposed plywood edge of the cabinet face frame (holes in the frame were evidently cut by a jigsaw).  Then I would have a square frame to inset the cabinet doors and drawers.   I am planning to make the drawers, drawer fronts, and cabinet doors.   The layout of the kitchen is nice, but we really need a makeover on the cabinets.  We are planning to get new countertops as well.

One of the pics shows the center section between two adjoining cabinet doors that I believe would have to be removed – correct?.  I was concerned that there wouldn’t be a stop for the two doors when pushed inward, however the shelves would stop the doors.

Is this a good idea or should I just try to make better overlay-type doors and drawer fronts?

Thanks,

Brian

 

Reply
  • X
  • facebook
  • linkedin
  • pinterest
  • email
  • add to favorites Log in or Sign up to save your favorite articles

Replies

  1. Vwright | Mar 13, 2009 04:35am | #1

    Much easier to build new overlay doors. Besides the problem with hanging inset doors perfectly square in the faceframe your drawer slides may not give you enough travel in to do inset. Inset doors are a pain in the arse for myself, trying to get an even reveal all the way around your doors and drawers, too much. I like the forgiveness of overlay doors. I still use good Blum hardware for adjustments.

    Vern.

  2. dotto | Mar 13, 2009 05:12am | #2

    The face frames were cut from a single piece of plywood, correct?  I would check that the beaded trim will look good against "jig saw" cut outs.  Some sanding/planing may be necessary to improve the joint between the face frame and new trim.

    Looks like a lot of holes to fill where the existing hinges are screwed in.  Sometimes the puddy/filler does a nice job and then there's the other 95% of the time. 

    As for the door stops.  Leave the center stiles.  You can attach a new piece of 1x to the top rail of the face frame  and have it stick down approx. 3/8".  This will stop the door.  You can also install bullet or ball catches http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=145.  Simple to install

    Drawers shouldn't be a problem, you will just have to move the slides. I'm assuming you knew that.

    Dave Otto -- Otto Construction -- PA

    1. bmyyou | Mar 13, 2009 05:23am | #3

      Good tip - Forgot to mention that we are planning to pain all of the cabinets so will likely use poplar for frames and MDF for panels.  Drawer bottoms will be baltic birch.

      1. Dave45 | Mar 13, 2009 07:23am | #4

        In this thread and the other one, I've seen it mentioned that the faceframes are cut out of plywood. Your pictures look to me like good old solid wood - which is pretty much standard for face frame cabs.You can do inset doors and drawer fronts if you add some kind of stop on the inside for the doors, and careful positioning of the drawer glides for the drawers. If you use side mount glides, you'll need spacers between the carcass and the glide. If you use glides that require that the drawer be "tipped" for removal, make sure that the drawer sides and back will clear the faceframe during removal. You MAY NOT ask how I know that!! - lolI usually install drawer glides with the cabinet back off so I can get everything dialed in just right.

        1. MikeHennessy | Mar 13, 2009 02:48pm | #5

          "In this thread and the other one, I've seen it mentioned that the faceframes are cut out of plywood. Your pictures look to me like good old solid wood - which is pretty much standard for face frame cabs."

          Nope -- look at the grain on the "face frame" rails -- it's verticle just like the stiles. Original builder just cut door holes out of a single sheet of ply to make the face frames.

          To OP: Have you thought about removing the face frames and just making new ones out of something like maple or, cheaper, poplar, since it'll be painted? (You'd probably wanna invest in a pocket hole jig if you don't have one.) IMHO, that would be easier & quicker than trying to jury rig around what was a bad idea to start with.

          Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA

          1. Dave45 | Mar 13, 2009 04:11pm | #6

            Oops, you're right. My morning vision is better than my evening vision. - lolGood idea about replacing the faceframe. I believe the OP said that the openings weren't square so a new faceframe could correct that. The problem may be getting the old one off - Care to bet on glue and nails? - lol

          2. MikeHennessy | Mar 13, 2009 04:37pm | #8

            "Care to bet on glue and nails?"

            Well, I sure wouldn't bet against it! LOL.

            Still, a new face frame could be dadoed on the back to cover any damage removal might cause. I still think I'd rather do it that way than to try to work around a plywood face frame. I doubt the hinge screws would last long into the edgegrain of ply.

            Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA

          3. Dave45 | Mar 13, 2009 05:01pm | #9

            One downside to this discussion (and the other one started by the OP) is that it seems to be approaching the place where complete replacement of the cabinets may be a more effecient path.I frequently have to explain to customers that modification of their existing cabs has limitations and complete replacement may be a more cost effective solution.

          4. bmyyou | Mar 14, 2009 05:33am | #10

            I realize we could do that but that is simply not in our budget.  Since I enjoy woodworking and making things to help fix up the house, I didn't think it would be too daunting a task to replace doors, drawer fronts, and drawer boxes.  My wife really wants to paint the cabinets so the lumber wouldn't be that expensive. 

            So what if I replace the ply face frames with poplar frames and still do the overlay doors and drawer fronts?  Is there something I'm missing - that seems to be the weakest links in the cabinet structure (hadn't thought about screws on the ply frames wearing out after some use/cycles).

          5. Dave45 | Mar 14, 2009 07:13am | #11

            For you, it's probably cost effective to do what you're planning. If I were doing it for you, however, it would likely be less expensive to rip out what you have and start from scratch. Labor is the single biggest cost and yours is free..........mine isn't. - lolA couple of caveats here.
            (1)I don't consider goofing around on BT as billable labor, so feel free to ask any questions you have. My advice, comments, and suggestions are free and worth every penny you pay for them. (2)My labor actually is free to a very small group of people. My daughters and SIL have quite a few pieces of pretty decent furniture that (sometimes) costs them the price of the materials and some of their time.

          6. bmyyou | Mar 14, 2009 07:32am | #12

            Someone hinted in a previous post that I might cause more damage in trying to remove the face frames.  Some of them are loose, however a couple of them like the island frames are mitered on the ends and nailed.  I plan to pry them carefully, but do you think all of those mitered seams and edges of the frames were glued as well?  The last thing I want to do is to try to remove part of them and tear them up to where I can't fix it without replacing all of them.

             

          7. Dave45 | Mar 14, 2009 03:38pm | #13

            They might be, but there's no way to know for sure until you try to remove them.Get a 5-in-1 painters tool (they look like an oddly shaped putty knife with a stiff blade) and use it to try removing a faceframe in an unobtrusive place. As soon as the faceframe begins to pull away from the carcass, you'll know if it was or wasn't glued and whether you want to go for it.

          8. oldusty | Mar 14, 2009 05:00pm | #16

                 If you plan to paint the cabinets when done and make new overlay doors , then why change the face frames ?

                 In my professional opinion that style of mitered plywood face frames will not easily lend itself to be removed and replaced mostly because of the mitered corners , would you miter the new face frames ? The Poplar would need to be the same thickness as the existing faces to meet the miters and such .

                 Also when you mention flush inset and retro fit into jigsaw cut and rough openings you are headed down a road full of potholes .

                Make new doors and drawer fronts more full overlay so less of the face will show for a fresher look with the new doors.

               FYI you can  place stops inside of flush inset doors  .

                  good  luck          dusty, a boxmaker

        2. Piffin | Mar 14, 2009 04:39pm | #14

          Those face frames look like all plywood to me. First thing that jumps out is all the grain running same direction and grain pattern matches the doors which are obviously ply.I'd have two big concerns if a customer asked me to do this. First is whether the opennings are square and line up evenly. It's already a lot of work to get alignment on flush insets, but starting with sloppy holes cut from a jigsaw twenty years ago leaves me without any confidence on that pointThe other concern is that this would absolutely need to get a paint job for finish. 

           

          Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

          1. Piffin | Mar 14, 2009 04:44pm | #15

            If economy is your first concern, leave the existing face frames and use overlay or half overlay new doors and paint it 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

          2. Dave45 | Mar 14, 2009 05:41pm | #17

            It's almost certain that I wouldn't even attempt this approach for a paying customer. Most of the work would have to be done on-site, and it would involve a lot of "fit and fiddle" work to get it right.I could probably build all new cabs in my shop, demo the old ones, and install the new ones for less money than trying to beat the old cabs into submission.The OP, however, isn't trying to make a profit, so his "fit and fiddle" time doesn't count. - lol

          3. Piffin | Mar 14, 2009 08:35pm | #18

            absolutely, but his F&F time will count when he is trying to do all that while his wife is trying to fix dinner, the kids are gnawing at his ankles, and the coffee is getting cold.;) 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

          4. Dave45 | Mar 14, 2009 10:01pm | #20

            You and I know that...........now. As someone once said (or should have), "Too soon old, too late smart". - lolI still have memories that I can't supress about some of my early projects.

            Edited 3/14/2009 3:02 pm by Dave45

          5. Piffin | Mar 14, 2009 10:44pm | #21

            LOL, I'm so good I've suppressed some of them;) 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

  3. User avater
    JDRHI | Mar 13, 2009 04:27pm | #7

    For inset doors and drawers, the faceframes will have to be perfectly square.

    Kinda hard to imagine that will be the case with jigsawed, plywood frames.

    That would be where I would start. Go around the entire kitchen checking each and every opening. If most are good and the others only require minimal adjusting, it will make your life infinetly easier. If not, consider new overlay doors.

    I'd keep the center stiles, otherwise your doors may be/look too big.

    As someone mentioned....if you are determined on using the inset style, look to see how involved removing and replacing the existing frames may be.

    J. D. Reynolds

    Home Improvements

     

    Proud recipient of the BT 'Truth In Print' award.

     

     

     


  4. jigs_n_fixtures@icloud.com | Mar 14, 2009 09:30pm | #19

    Are the boxes behind the face frame true? If so you might be able to convert to the "euro" style frameless cabinets, by just removing the face frames.

    If the cabinet bodies aren't square, you will have to stay with a face frame.

    The solution to the 45-degree miters where they were wrapped back to the original sides of the cabinets is to nail a temporary guide to inside of the cabinet, and use a flush trim bit in a laminate trimmer to cut the edge back true to the rest of the your edges.

    I can't tell for sure, but I think the panels in your doors may be made from the cut out in the existing face frame.

    1. oldusty | Mar 14, 2009 11:10pm | #22

        Hiya Jigs ,

            Kind of makes you wonder if the faces are cut sloppy and you can clearly see it , I don't reckon  the boxes will be true ? but , stranger things have happened !

               regards     dusty

      1. jigs_n_fixtures@icloud.com | Mar 15, 2009 10:04pm | #23

        The body cut out could have been done on a table saw, and the face frame made with a jig saw, there used to be a "Sunset Magazine", book on remodeling your kitchen that gave instructions on how to build the cabinet style the OP seems to have, that did it that way. As a consequence there are quite few of them out there.

Log in or create an account to post a comment.

Sign up Log in

Become a member and get full access to FineHomebuilding.com

Video Shorts

Categories

  • Business
  • Code Questions
  • Construction Techniques
  • Energy, Heating & Insulation
  • General Discussion
  • Help/Work Wanted
  • Photo Gallery
  • Reader Classified
  • Tools for Home Building

Discussion Forum

Recent Posts and Replies

  • |
  • |
  • |
  • |
  • |
  • |
View More Create Post

Up Next

Video Shorts

Featured Story

Tools and Gear for the Moms Who Get it Done

From work boots to power tools, these favorite picks make perfect gifts for moms and women who build.

Featured Video

How to Install Exterior Window Trim

Learn how to measure, cut, and build window casing made of cellular PVC, solid wood, poly-ash boards, or any common molding material. Plus, get tips for a clean and solid installation.

Related Stories

  • Tools and Gear for the Moms Who Get it Done
  • Beat the Heat: Cool Innovations
  • A Practical Approach to Exterior Insulation
  • Making and Installing Wood Wall Paneling

Highlights

Fine Homebuilding All Access
Fine Homebuilding Podcast
Tool Tech
Plus, get an extra 20% off with code GIFT20

"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.

Get home building tips, offers, and expert advice in your inbox

Signing you up...

This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.
See all newsletters
See all newsletters

Fine Homebuilding Magazine

  • Issue 331 - June 2025
    • A More Resilient Roof
    • Tool Test: You Need a Drywall Sander
    • Ducted vs. Ductless Heat Pumps
  • Issue 330 - April/May 2025
    • Deck Details for Durability
    • FAQs on HPWHs
    • 10 Tips for a Long-Lasting Paint Job
  • Issue 329 - Feb/Mar 2025
    • Smart Foundation for a Small Addition
    • A Kominka Comes West
    • Making Small Kitchens Work
  • Issue 328 - Dec/Jan 2024
    • How a Pro Replaces Columns
    • Passive House 3.0
    • Tool Test: Compact Line Lasers
  • Issue 327 - November 2024
    • Repairing Damaged Walls and Ceilings
    • Plumbing Protection
    • Talking Shop

Fine Home Building

Newsletter Sign-up

  • Fine Homebuilding

    Home building tips, offers, and expert advice in your inbox.

  • Green Building Advisor

    Building science and energy efficiency advice, plus special offers, in your inbox.

  • Old House Journal

    Repair, renovation, and restoration tips, plus special offers, in your inbox.

Signing you up...

This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.
See all newsletters

Follow

  • Fine Homebuilding

    Dig into cutting-edge approaches and decades of proven solutions with total access to our experts and tradespeople.

    Start Free Trial Now
    • Facebook
    • Instagram
    • X
    • LinkedIn
  • GBA Prime

    Get instant access to the latest developments in green building, research, and reports from the field.

    Start Free Trial Now
    • Facebook
    • YouTube
  • Old House Journal

    Learn how to restore, repair, update, and decorate your home.

    Subscribe Now
    • Facebook
    • Instagram
    • X
  • Fine Homebuilding

    Dig into cutting-edge approaches and decades of proven solutions with total access to our experts and tradespeople.

    Start Free Trial Now
    • Facebook
    • Instagram
    • X
    • LinkedIn
  • GBA Prime

    Get instant access to the latest developments in green building, research, and reports from the field.

    Start Free Trial Now
    • Facebook
    • YouTube
  • Old House Journal

    Learn how to restore, repair, update, and decorate your home.

    Subscribe Now
    • Facebook
    • Instagram
    • X

Membership & Magazine

  • Online Archive
  • Start Free Trial
  • Magazine Subscription
  • Magazine Renewal
  • Gift a Subscription
  • Customer Support
  • Privacy Preferences
  • About
  • Contact
  • Advertise
  • Careers
  • Terms of Use
  • Site Map
  • Do not sell or share my information
  • Privacy Policy
  • Accessibility
  • California Privacy Rights

© 2025 Active Interest Media. All rights reserved.

Fine Homebuilding receives a commission for items purchased through links on this site, including Amazon Associates and other affiliate advertising programs.

  • Home Group
  • Antique Trader
  • Arts & Crafts Homes
  • Bank Note Reporter
  • Cabin Life
  • Cuisine at Home
  • Fine Gardening
  • Fine Woodworking
  • Green Building Advisor
  • Garden Gate
  • Horticulture
  • Keep Craft Alive
  • Log Home Living
  • Military Trader/Vehicles
  • Numismatic News
  • Numismaster
  • Old Cars Weekly
  • Old House Journal
  • Period Homes
  • Popular Woodworking
  • Script
  • ShopNotes
  • Sports Collectors Digest
  • Threads
  • Timber Home Living
  • Traditional Building
  • Woodsmith
  • World Coin News
  • Writer's Digest
Active Interest Media logo
X
X
This is a dialog window which overlays the main content of the page. The modal window is a 'site map' of the most critical areas of the site. Pressing the Escape (ESC) button will close the modal and bring you back to where you were on the page.

Main Menu

  • How-To
  • Design
  • Tools & Materials
  • Video
  • Blogs
  • Forum
  • Project Guides
  • Reader Projects
  • Magazine
  • Members
  • FHB House

Podcasts

  • FHB Podcast
  • ProTalk

Webinars

  • Upcoming and On-Demand

Podcasts

  • FHB Podcast
  • ProTalk

Webinars

  • Upcoming and On-Demand

Popular Topics

  • Kitchens
  • Business
  • Bedrooms
  • Roofs
  • Architecture and Design
  • Green Building
  • Decks
  • Framing
  • Safety
  • Remodeling
  • Bathrooms
  • Windows
  • Tilework
  • Ceilings
  • HVAC

Magazine

  • Current Issue
  • Past Issues
  • Magazine Index
  • Subscribe
  • Online Archive
  • Author Guidelines

All Access

  • Member Home
  • Start Free Trial
  • Gift Membership

Online Learning

  • Courses
  • Project Guides
  • Reader Projects
  • Podcast

More

  • FHB Ambassadors
  • FHB House
  • Customer Support

Account

  • Log In
  • Join

Newsletter

Get home building tips, offers, and expert advice in your inbox

Signing you up...

This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.
See all newsletters
See all newsletters

Follow

  • X
  • YouTube
  • instagram
  • facebook
  • pinterest
  • Tiktok

Join All Access

Become a member and get instant access to thousands of videos, how-tos, tool reviews, and design features.

Start Your Free Trial

Subscribe

FHB Magazine

Start your subscription today and save up to 81%

Subscribe

Enjoy unlimited access to Fine Homebuilding. Join Now

Already a member? Log in

We hope you’ve enjoyed your free articles. To keep reading, become a member today.

Get complete site access to expert advice, how-to videos, Code Check, and more, plus the print magazine.

Start your FREE trial

Already a member? Log in

Privacy Policy Update

We use cookies, pixels, script and other tracking technologies to analyze and improve our service, to improve and personalize content, and for advertising to you. We also share information about your use of our site with third-party social media, advertising and analytics partners. You can view our Privacy Policy here and our Terms of Use here.

Cookies

Analytics

These cookies help us track site metrics to improve our sites and provide a better user experience.

Advertising/Social Media

These cookies are used to serve advertisements aligned with your interests.

Essential

These cookies are required to provide basic functions like page navigation and access to secure areas of the website.

Delete My Data

Delete all cookies and associated data