i am building my own kitchen cabinets….boxes that is and ordering the door and drawer fronts. birch plywood and poplar face frames to be painted.My dilemma is whether to use inset doors or overlay using cup hinges with both. If I use overlay Iwant to cover most of the face frame for a cleaner look,if so should i scrap the face frames and go fframeless? The door style is frame and panel with applied quirk and bead.
Edited 10/13/2006 10:06 pm ET by new canuck
Edited 10/13/2006 10:08 pm ET by new canuck
Replies
If you are new at this (or even if you aren't), insets require significantly more time and fuss to get the all the gaps perfect. Overlays are a bit more forgiving, especially if you use "adjustable" hinges. If you go frameless, you will want to edgeband the bottom and sides of the cases to hide the edge of the plywood so you might as well use face frames.
What are the general advantages and disadvantages of face frame vs frameless boxes (aside from esthetics). Face frames always seemed to me to waste a lot of space along side the drawers which I assume that frameless would allow to be utilized.
Without faceframes,are filler strips my only solution to scribing a cabinet to the wall?
Most of my cabinets are frameless but instead of using the veneer tape I make a face frame that is only the same width as the 3/4 ply. Then at the ends where you need a scribe I make the frame 3/4 or 1" wider and scribe that. Hope that makes sense.
Bing
Nice idea...I am not a big fan of edgebanding a painted project because of possible gluelines or hairline cracks. I also could use the 1 inch band around the refrigerator cabinet opening.What about attaching? Biscuits or glue and brads? My thought is to combine the two methods where possible .
If you are painting then you don't need to edge band the plywood cabinets, just build them frameless and paint the leading edges. If you are varnishing the inside of the cabinets then varnish first, then mask up and paint the edges. We do it all the time and it looks fine
JohnIf my baby don't love me no more, I know her sister will.
I do it for stain grade or paint grade. I think the variation in grain (solid stock) looks better than the edge band tape.
Bing
See if you can drag up FHB #126 (11/99). There is an excellent article on building kitchen cabinets, particularly useful if you really want to do inset doors. Without face frames, a filler strip is the typical approach to getting it tight to the wall. If you have to use a filler strip, rip or plane a back bevel on the edge that will butt to the wall a few degrees, then scribe that for a tight fit.
Well, if you scrap the boxes you have built already, there is a disadvantage in the cost, for sure. Send them to me, I do mostly framed with full flush inset.
;)
one big difference between the two is that you must be aware of how things open and the space taken up with both. For instance, at an inside corner, drawers and doors come closer. A wal unit near a window will allow space so the handle does not hit the wall easier with framed. Lots of little things like that.
As already mentioned, the flush insets demand more accurate construction, adjustment, and sizing. An openning or door that is off by a sixteenth will show it worse when inset, because the shadow line of the openning needs to be equal in all ways to work and look good.
Another minor problem we have is in the humidity of sumer, doors can swell. So when we build in winter when dry, it is an art form to guess how much to reveal so we don't get so many call backs when the customers arrive for the summer season for doors that will not open. An overlay door avoids many of those problems
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Have you seen the new door model with the two step bead, applied, from Keystone?
The inside bead is a half round, and the one applied next to it is a rope. Cool.
We do a lot of frameless cab work, using a mix of all-purchased components, or part-bought, part-made. For the best look at end-cab filler conditions, we use an L-filler, 7/8" thick on the face, with the sidecab leg being about 2-3/4". The filler is mounted so its face is out at the door face plane. Avoids that sunken filler look.
I believe that exposed ends of frameless cabs should be dressed with a panel made like a door (stile and rail) and sized so its front edge comes out flush to the door face.
For dishwasher and range spaces in basecabs, we trim the sides of the adjoining cabs with 7/8" thick finished strips, the arrises eased to match whatever edge the doors get, also bringing those edges out flush to the doors.
From the Keystone site (pics don't show the egg and dart or rope):
View Image
Applied Moulding Doors
Keystone Wood Specialties offers six different styles in applied moulding doors including Egg & Dart and Rope mouldings. They can be applied to raised, flat, and beaded panel doors, creating a wide variety of door style possibilities. Available in most wood species, they can be ordered prefinished, or sanded, ready to finish.
Edited 10/14/2006 11:08 pm ET by Gene_Davis
My dilemma is whether to use inset doors or overlay using cup hinges with both
Why is this a dilemma? What do you want the cabinets to look like, thats more important.
If I use overlay Iwant to cover most of the face frame for a cleaner look
If thats the case then I dont know why you'd bother with face frames. Build Euro boxes, far easier and more efficent use of the space. Edge tape the boxes and add your doors and drawers.
With full overlay you can build simple boxes without any dividers between doors and drawers. Just add your drawer guides and snap your doors on and keep your 3/16" revel and the dividers wont be necessary.
Doug
Edited 10/15/2006 11:08 am ET by DougU