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Kitchen Cabinets or Flooring First?

barshfield | Posted in Construction Techniques on June 30, 2004 03:51am

Scenario:  A washing machine hose breaks, spewing water into the kitchen, all over the floor, into the corners and crevices, which then seeps into the subfloor (yes, it was that much of a disaster!).  Insurance contractor is called in to remedy the situation.  Contractor takes out the kitchen cabinets, replaces the subflooring, re-installs the kitchen cabinets, and then (oh yeah . . . ) installs new vinyl flooring up to the kitchen cabinets (but of course not under them – the cabinets are already back in place).  Homeowner is concerned about the propriety of this installation sequence. 

Question:  Is there an “industry standard” for installation of vinyl flooring in a kitchen that addresses the preferability and acceptability of these two options:

1.  install the flooring first, and then install the kitchen cabinets; or

2.  install the kitchen cabinets, and then install the flooring. 

Is one sequence preferrable over the other? And is either one acceptable under the “industry standard”?

I suspect the answer might depend in part on the resiliency of the flooring material, but my common sense tells me to put in the flooring first and then the cabinets.  In particular, I’m looking for any building code type references or other authoritative material that could help me answer this question. 

Thanks in advance for your insights. 

Mark.

 

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Replies

  1. steve | Jun 30, 2004 04:03am | #1

    flooring first, it solves many potential problems, or at least place the toekick after the flooring

    the cabinets will sit on the vinyl preventing curling at the edges

    flooring first is much much easier for the vinyl guys

    caulking is not a piece of trim

  2. bkhy | Jun 30, 2004 04:07am | #2

    either way is ok---if the floor is installed last the plumber doesn't get to throw his tools around on it.

  3. woodgeek | Jun 30, 2004 04:34am | #3

    I'm of the opinion that the floor should go in last.

    I'm all for making someone's job easier but vinyl floors don't last all that long. The floor will be easier to replace if not trapped by the cabinets. Plus it wont be damaged by the other trades.

  4. User avater
    RichBeckman | Jun 30, 2004 05:07am | #4

    Mark,

    As the previous posts have already made clear, there is no industry standard. This subject comes up every few months and the threads are always "floor first", "cabs first", "floor first", "cabs first", "floor first", "cabs first", "floor first", etc.

    Doesn't even matter what kind of floor is being discussed: wood, laminate, tile, vinyl. I don't think carpet has ever been talked over.

    Personally I would put the floor first.

    Rich Beckman

    Another day, another tool.

  5. User avater
    JeffBuck | Jun 30, 2004 05:21am | #5

    industry standard ... no.

    either way works to varying degrees ...

    unless it's a floating floor of some sort ... cab's bearing any weight shouldn't be set tight over a floating floor.

    I like the floor first idea ... but never bough the "what if it leaks" train of thought ... how about building it so it don't leak? No one seems to mind all those pipes hidden behind drywall walls and ceilings ... or under the subfloor ... but for some reason .. ya really gotta watch out for plumbing in the kitchen cabs?

    Jeff

    Buck Construction, llc   Pittsburgh,PA

         Artistry in Carpentry                

  6. calvin | Jun 30, 2004 05:34am | #6

    I have always floored after cabs are set.  In many of my remodels, a repetitive pattern layed first would surely come back to haunt the cab install.  To get a repeat pattern floor right to what it runs with in my mind would be a pain.  Protecting the vinyl while other trades and of course myself work, would be an unneccessary step considering the life of most vinyls compared to cabs.  A good vinyl mechanic, doesn't bother them either way.  If you think you can remove the cabs later and change out the kitchen leaving the flooring, you'll see the shadow of the old place. 

    Always liked this discussion.  It goes to personal pref. rather than regional difference.

    Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.

    Quittin' Time

  7. User avater
    jonblakemore | Jun 30, 2004 05:53am | #7

    Tile and wood strip flooring, floor first (with shims in the back of the cabs).

    Vinyl, pergo, cork, etc., cabs first.

    If the wood flooring was prefinished, I might install cabs first.

     

    Jon Blakemore

  8. woodgeek | Jun 30, 2004 10:08am | #8

    I would still go with flooring last when the floor is vinyl.

    Besides the other mentioned reasons for doing it this way is it allows the pattern in the floor to be laid out according to all the items

    in the room not just aligned to the walls. There is nothing worse in my mind then seeing a small piece of the pattern peeking out from underneath the toekick. Especially when it gradually gets bigger as it goes down the face of the cabinets. If the kitchen has a island we will leave that out until after the floor is in. A good flooring mechanic will put down your floor in whatever situation you throw at him.

    I worked with a hard surface flooring installer for three years and I've seen some pretty impossible situations for laying sheet goods. But decisions like these need to be made for the good of the job not for ease of installation. As I do mainly kitchen and bath remodels I see lots of flooring installers asking to put down the floor first.

    It's irresponsible of them to put their desire to get easy jobs ahead of doing quality work. Not to be to critical of them but they are ones saying that it would be easier when asked why. Maybe I'm just bitter because we never got any of the easy work when I was doing flooring But my boss was good and that what happens. The less competent guys are not going to get the tricky stuff.

  9. Geoffrey | Jul 12, 2004 06:48pm | #9

     Mark, doesn't the scenario you provided answer your own question? Flooring 1st!!you might not have had the amount of damage to the sub-floor if there had been a finish floor laid. Also, if there are spills in front of the cabs and the floor was laid after cabs, the joint at the front of the cabs is a way for water or liquids to get under the flooring as well as get to the sub-floor.

    As to matching patterns to the cab bases, most cabs are installed parallel to a wall they are mounted to, there should be no problem with the flooring  being parallel to the cabs as well.

     As to protecting the installed finish floor, a comment was made further down  about floor protection being too much extra effort, WOW, how lazy can you get !We're supposed to be professionals NOT fly -by- nighters!!How about if your doctor took the same attitude? Yea I know you gotta charge for your time, so do it and explain to the home owner what you're doing and why , most people will appreciate the effort.

                                                                               Geoff

                                                                                                              

    1. ed2 | Jul 12, 2004 07:10pm | #10

      unfinished wood floors before cabinets, eliminates toe nailing at toekicks, can bury lesser boards and shorts under base units going down     have kitchen print or mark off bases for floor guy     protect against staining, or sand before cabinet install and do 2 coats, return for last after cabinets are in and repair any damage then

      prefinished wood after, no damage   even pros drop a hammer or chisel occasionally

      floating after, no weight          tile after, less costly goods to go down, sometimes hard to level/shim cabinets on top of tile           vinyl after, no damage repairs      

      a finish floor under cabinets won't waterproof against damage, water is travelin where it wants to

      1. handygman | Mar 19, 2005 06:20am | #11

        Personally, I say if it's tile or carpet then cabinets first otherwise flooring first. But what I do is whatever gets delivered first and I'm ready to go is what I lay down first.

        Edited 3/18/2005 11:29 pm ET by handygman

        Edited 3/18/2005 11:29 pm ET by handygman

  10. User avater
    hammer1 | Mar 19, 2005 07:02am | #12

    Having flooring under the cabinets won't prevent the water from getting into the subfloor. If it's a hardwood floor that gets damaged, you may have to pull the cabinets, appliances and counter top to repair. Washing machine hose leaks are one of the most common insurance claims. People should replace the inexpensive hoses every few years. Flooring installers are always the last people on the job in my area. Nobody wants to even walk on a new floor, let alone do a cabinet installation on top. Everyone completes their work before the flooring guys come in. Damaging a floor can cost thousands, we don't take the chance.

    Beat it to fit / Paint it to match

    1. Mitremike | Mar 19, 2005 09:17am | #13

      Wow 2 post in 3 years and this thread is 9 months old---that has to be some kinda record--and speaking of records--Floor type is the driver to first or last--
      Hardwood=first can't install in toe kick area
      lamanate=last it has to float
      viyn;l=last way to soft to work on
      cork=last """""""""""""""""""""""""
      carpet=last Who carpets a kitchen tile==thats a toss up but most will first to avoid having to cut tile and I would prefer that also cause then I don't have to build up the cabinets
      Mikebummer sorry Hammer this is for Mark and you can't edit the name

      Edited 3/19/2005 2:18 am ET by mitremike

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