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Kitchen circuits and outlets 101

davidmeiland | Posted in General Discussion on April 6, 2004 05:04am

I haven’t laid out kitchen wiring in a few years and know that some codes changed recently. I need to stick some boxes and wire in one of the walls today and want to make sure I get it right.

Kitchen layout is a J shape. Starting at the right hand end: long leg is a little over 10 feet (backsplash measurement), sink in the middle and 4 feet+ of countertop on either side. Middle leg is about 9 feet with stove in the middle and 3 feet+ of countertop on either side. The last leg is about 7 feet with the refer at the left hand end.

I believe I need two countertop small appliance circuits and a plug for any piece of counter over a foot. What else? Disposal/refer/micro on individual circuits? There’s already a lighting circuit that I’ll reuse.

Thanks! 

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  1. User avater
    BillHartmann | Apr 06, 2004 05:57pm | #1

    You can go to http://www.codecheck.com and click on Sample and you will find a drawing for show the needed location for the countertop receptacles.

    And you are right you need at least 2 small appliance circuits.

    For the other appliances the requirement if a single device takes more than 50% of the breaker rating then it needs it own circuit. IE, microwave.

    And you can bundle up other appliance until there total nameplate rates is 80% of the breaker rating.

    Most likely the refigerator, DW and disposal can share a circuit.

  2. User avater
    Wayfarer | Apr 06, 2004 06:40pm | #2

    The only thing I might add to Bill's comments is that you might put the fridge and microwave on separate circuits, 15A and 20A respectively.  Keep in mind too you need that funkier looking receptacle when there is only one receptacle for a 20A circuit.

    Regarding receptacle on your countertop; check code on the spacing for receptacles when not broken up with an appliance and/or sink.  Yeah, you need a receptacle after a foot or whatever of counterspace, but there is also a minimum space between receptacles on that counterspace.

    Dining or eating space next to the kitchen?  If so, these areas are included in your two 20A circuits in the kitchen.

    Subpanel; do you have a subpanel servicing the kitchen and immediate surrounds?  Is your project that opened up that you could add a subpanel to this area, "easily."  It might be something to consider.

    How 'bout a range hood; you might need a dedicated 15A circuit for that too.

    What about other code considerations?  Are you pulling a permit?  You may, if pulling a permit, have to deal with flourescent lighting being a requirement for your first-switch-of-lighting when entering the kitchen.  I don't know, maybe this is just a California code requirement.

  3. decornut | Apr 06, 2004 09:55pm | #3

    It may be a good idea to put the dishwasher on its own 20 amp circuit.  The ones that heat the incoming hot water to a higher temp can pull a fair amount of juice. Also the heating element in the drying cycle will pull 8 amps or so. 



    Edited 4/6/2004 3:09 pm ET by r

    1. brownbagg | Apr 07, 2004 12:31am | #4

      if its a built in micro, must be on own circuit.

      disposal cannot share circuit, dishwasher cannot share circuit. two counter circuits anything over 18 inches. a samll counter micro can use counter circuit. circuit 4 feet apart all must be 20 amp. Light cannot share counter circuit or with anything else. all counter gfi. and a local rule here, cannot use 12/3 for counter must be 12/2 (2)

      1. rjgogo | Apr 07, 2004 02:00am | #5

        That is interesting both the installation manuals for my Bosch dishwasher and Kitchen Aid Garbage disposal stated a 20 amp circuit could be shared between the two. consulted a friend that is a Union Electrician and he concurred.   Looked at the  peak draw requirements and it is safely under 20 amps. 

        1. brownbagg | Apr 07, 2004 03:38am | #6

          The local electrical inspector wrote me up on that and the 12/3 wire. well, the dishwasher has it own circuit by some book and share by others. The disposal being on a switch. so it would be a location where both tie together then to switch then disposal. Its a grey area because disposal can have a plug but dishwasher hard wired. got two answer from two books, dont know.

          1. rjgogo | Apr 07, 2004 05:48am | #7

            Mine both come up the same run of pipe then branch, one for the Garbage Disposal which is hard wired with a switch and one for the hardwire of the DW.  I was somewhat limited in open bays in the panel.  I have a lot of underused circuits.  Couple of 20 amp breakers that each serve one receptacle so where I could combine safely I did.  Edit to add, mine is all  12 gauge run in EMT and Greenfield,  no romex for me, that is not code. 

            Edited 4/6/2004 10:50 pm ET by rjgogo

  4. decornut | Apr 07, 2004 04:59pm | #8

    You're right, the NEC does allow the refrig to be on one of the 20 amp small appliance circuits.  And another reason not to do it that way is if that would put the refer outlet downstream of the GFCI protection required for the countertop outlets.  Who wants spoiled food over a nuisance trip ?

    1. davidmeiland | Apr 07, 2004 06:00pm | #9

      Couldn't you put the refer outlet in first, and then the countertops on GFCI? No need to do the opposite.

      1. decornut | Apr 07, 2004 08:15pm | #10

        Sure, as long as you plan it that way during the rough-in and bring the feed to the refer outlet first.  But in practice I don't think that always happens.

    2. hasbeen | Apr 08, 2004 04:22am | #16

      Agreed.  In practice a dedicated circuit for the frig is better.  I wired mine that way this morning.Something is what it does.

  5. migraine | Apr 07, 2004 09:45pm | #11

    I am in a quandry on as to why do most electricans try and run the minimal amount of circuits in a kitchen?.  Why not run one for the refer, one for the dish washer(maybe tie the garbage disposal to it), one for the lights, one for the microwave, and at least 2 for the small appliances?.  And run all of it in #12?  Also taking into acount that the panel size is already big enough for 4 more beakers.

    I mean really what is the difference in cost, say when the kitchen is approx 60' away.  I realize that breakers coist a little more and your not adding any more boxes, and at the worst case, you have maybe 4 more runs.  That makes an extra 250' roll of 12/2 romex.  If I remember, isn't it a 250' roll running around $100?  How much more time does it take to pull 4 more runs of wire when all the holes, or at least most of them, are already run?

    Then comes the thought of running an individual circuit to each bedroom/bathroom....I hate not being able to plug my  portable compressor into any recepticle in the house.

    I'm about ready to have this conversation with an electrician roughing in my home

    1. CPopejoy | Apr 07, 2004 11:07pm | #12

      Why not?  Money.

      It's not just the cost of materials, it's the labor to install.

      It's the rare GC who'll sell the homebuyer on an electrical system that's more than Code minimum.  Usually, if the buyer can't see it, they don't want to spend money on it.  

      Recently, I took a look at a 4000+ SF spec house built in '97, 5 BR 4BA, with 1 (that's one)  20A circuit serving all the bathroom receptacle outlets, plus the central vac.  When the hair blowdryers get going in the morning, the breaker trips.

      Looks like it's going to be about a $600 job for me to put each baths recep on it's own 20A circuit (have to add subpanel; long runs to bathrooms, attic access only and tight space).

      Even in custom homes, it's tough to sell the owner on upgrades to the wiring during construction.  They'd rather spend $150/SF for exotic stone tiles for the entry foyer, than $200 per circuit for more circuits.  Not that everyone cheaps out on the wiring; just most.

      So it's pay now or pay later.

      Cliff

      1. User avater
        johnnyd | Apr 07, 2004 11:15pm | #13

        Recently, I took a look at a 4000+ SF spec house built in '97, 5 BR 4BA, with 1 (that's one)  20A circuit serving all the bathroom receptacle outlets, plus the central vac.  When the hair blowdryers get going in the morning, the breaker trips.

        Multiple bathrooms?  Wasn't a home run to each bathroom code in '97?

        1. brownbagg | Apr 08, 2004 12:30am | #14

          in 2000 you can put two bathroom on same circuit but only lights or recp. not both and only bathroom cannot add hall or bedrooms.

        2. CPopejoy | Apr 08, 2004 01:10am | #15

          johnnyd--

          Well, the house was built in '97 and so around here that meant it was under probably under '93 Code (locals were at least two code cycles back in adopting the NEC version as local code).  

          My '93 book seems to have sprouted legs and walked off, so I'l have to go by recall--I think in the '93 Code, you had to provide a 20 amp circuit to the bathroom receps, but it did not have to be dedicated.

          At any rate, the 2002 National Eectric Code allows two ways to wire up a bathroom receptacle:

          1. a 20 amp circuit with only the bathrooms' receptacles (as many receptacles as you got in all of the bathrooms can go on one 20A circuit); OR,

          2. a 20 amp circuit for each bathroom; the lights, fan, etc. and the receptacle(s) in the one bathroom go on the 20A circuit.

          As I recall, the Code states that its requirements 'are intended for the practical safeguarding of persons and property from the hazards arising from the use of electricity, and are not meant to be design criteria or to provide for sufficient, efficient, or convenient installations.' 

          No kidding!  Receptacles in four baths on one 20A circuit.  Perfectly in compliance with code, even today. 

          Having the central vac on the circuit would not be allowed today, but isn't a big issue as it'd be unlikely that anyone would be vaccuming at 7 in the morning.

          Cliff

          1. User avater
            johnnyd | Apr 08, 2004 03:40pm | #17

            No kidding!  Receptacles in four baths on one 20A circuit.  Perfectly in compliance with code, even today. 

            I'd like to hear from some electricians who actually would do this and why. 

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