We did a bathroom remodel for these people awhile back, and they were very pleased with it. So now they want a kitchen remodel. Gut the whole thing, new cabinets, keep the frig. but move it, new microwave/hood over the stove. Add a dishwasher. Move the sink. Close off the window (it just opens to another room). New under-counter pull-out trash area. Full access to corner spaces via double-hinged corner doors. Eliminate the soffit and cabinets up to the ceiling.
Here’s what they have:
“…an open mind is a powerful thing. The ability to listen to others is invaluable.”
Jim Blodgett
Replies
"...an open mind is a powerful thing. The ability to listen to others is invaluable."
Jim Blodgett
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"...an open mind is a powerful thing. The ability to listen to others is invaluable."
Jim Blodgett
Here is what I am proposing (they are complaining that they want more drawers, but I told them they have to lose either the corner access, the trash area, or the dishwasher).
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View Image"...an open mind is a powerful thing. The ability to listen to others is invaluable."
Jim Blodgett
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View Image"...an open mind is a powerful thing. The ability to listen to others is invaluable."
Jim Blodgett
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View Image"...an open mind is a powerful thing. The ability to listen to others is invaluable."
Jim Blodgett
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View Image"...an open mind is a powerful thing. The ability to listen to others is invaluable."
Jim Blodgett
Any chance you could post a dimensioned floor plan of the space?Huck said it first. I just agreed with him.
Don't know if you can read the tiny dimensions, but its 7'11" to the door by the refrigerator, 7'2" to the door by the oven, and 9'0" across the wall by the sink.
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View Image"...an open mind is a powerful thing. The ability to listen to others is invaluable."
Jim Blodgett
Huck - the biggest problem here is the dishwasher location (next to the reefer, right?) - when the door is down the person at the sink stands a good chance of falling backwards onto the door, injuring themselves and of course the dishwasher too.
Move the sink over and put the DW on the sink wall. I understand what that will do to the corners but it's better than a broken arm.
Jeff
Edited 6/12/2007 10:08 pm ET by Jeff_Clarke
I have a somewhat similar kitchen, but mine is J-shaped.And I have 45 degree cabinets in the corners with lazy-susans. In my case works out great. One corner has an appliance garage. The other a counter top MW setting diagonally in the corner.If you did that you could put drawners in one of the corners..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
...45 degree cabinets in the corners with lazy-susans. In my case works out great. One corner has an appliance garage. The other a counter top MW setting diagonally in the corner.
I like the sound of that, but could you post a sketch or photo?"...an open mind is a powerful thing. The ability to listen to others is invaluable."
Jim Blodgett
This is the concept.http://www.haascabinet.com/assets/Bases070106.pdfPage 2 Diagnonl Corner Base.Now that has one drawer and the option for a lazy susan in the bottom part.I don't know if there are any commercial units with all drawers. But you could just install a 15" drawer base on the diagonal.You probably don't have as much storage space as your pie corner with a lazy susan.But if you install a diagonal on the other corner with a lazy susan that probably makes up the difference.
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Darn small space to fit a kitchen in period, let alone to get a bad case of the "I wants"Any chance of moving one or both of those doors down a bit to make for more wall space?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Darn small space to fit a kitchen in period, let alone to get a bad case of the "I wants" Any chance of moving one or both of those doors down a bit to make for more wall space?
Amen and amen. And nope, no chance. "...an open mind is a powerful thing. The ability to listen to others is invaluable."
Jim Blodgett
they are complaining that they want more drawers, but I told them .......
Why not make the base cabinet that's to the right of the stove, a multi-drawer unit?
Support our Troops. Bring them home. Now. And pray that at least some of the buildings in the green zone have flat roofs, with a stairway.
That and put drawers behind the toe kicks.
That and put drawers behind the toe kicks
Whoa, that sounds waaayyy too custom. I have never done it, but I've seen it done in magazine articles. How easy is it to do, and how practical? This is a low budget project."...an open mind is a powerful thing. The ability to listen to others is invaluable."
Jim Blodgett
Huck -
Using the toe-kick space for drawers isn't all that complicated and most folks really appreciate the added space. I've done around a dozen bathroom vanities with this arrangement. Both of my vanities are like this and I can get some more pictures if you want them.
Another thing I've been doing with kitchen cabinets is using drawers in almost all of the lower cabinets. Most of my customers really like having easier access to the "stuff" that finds its way to the bottom and back of a lower cabinet.
Toekick drawers! We've got clients that have gone to velcro shoes, because tie-ups have gotten to be a bit tedious.
But, as regards pullouts in base cabs, we stopped putting fixed shelves in basecabs six years ago, preferring only rollout or turnout accessories.
All our basecabs have either susans (for corners), rollout trays on full extension glides, pullout recycling centers, regular fronted drawers, or for narrow cabs in the 12" range, vertical dividers for trays, cookie sheets, and the like.
Fixed shelves in basecabs make one get down on one's knees, to find the olive oil way in the dark back. That is a big no-no.
Edited 6/14/2007 10:13 am ET by Gene_Davis
Fixed shelves in basecabs make one get down on one's knees
And that's a job that gets harder with each passing year. - lol
The first time I drew up a set of plans with all drawers in the lower cabs, SWMBO made it clear that she thought that it was a really dumb idea. A couple of hours later, she was down on her hands and knees rummaging around in one of our cabinets and I asked her (in all innocence) if drawers wouldn't make that a lot easier. She grumped and groaned for a while before admitting that it might make things a little easier. - lol
I like the full utilization of the space by making toekick drawers, but I can't help but have visions of folks a few years from now when they go to put a new floor down in the K.jt8
"You live and learn. At any rate, you live." -- Douglas Adams
That's a possiblity, but for us anyway, the extra space is worth it. I only have them in the bathroom vanities and I made them high enough to accomodate the thick bath mats SWMBO likes. (Actually, only one of them is high enough - a fact that was pointed out to me after I had built the first one. - lol)
Both bathrooms have tile floors so when/if we ever change the flooring, the tile would come out anyway, so it isn't a biggie.
Why not make the base cabinet that's to the right of the stove, a multi-drawer unit?
That's the pull-out trash receptacle."...an open mind is a powerful thing. The ability to listen to others is invaluable."
Jim Blodgett
A pull out trash receptacle seems like a luxury in this small kitchen. I put pull out shelves below the sink right on the bottom of the cabinet so you don't have to fight the plumbing while reaching for something. I'd put the trash receptacle there like we've all been doing for years. The 180 degree pull out for the corners is a great idea; be wary of fancy corner cabinet hardware and pull outs, they just leave a lot to go wrong or out of adjustment especially w/ renters. I'd forget about the toe space drawers, by the time you factor materials, etc. you get not much space in an awkward location for too much cost.
I encourage clients to forgo lower cabinets in favor of deep drawers whenever possible. Bending over and reaching into cabinets is archane. My kitchen has high and deep drawers everywhere. With full depth drawer glides it's a breeze. The cost is higher but all my clients love it.
Good luck
but I told them they have to lose either the corner access
Are these to be stock corner units, or will you build to suit?
If built to suit, you could "sneak" a multi-shelf roll-out unit (or a stack of drawers) into one "leg" of the corner; then use a half-moon lazy susan for the other.
That kitchen is going to need light when it's done. Not a ton of lumens, per se; but many fixtures with moderate-output lamping will help "fill" the space with light, which helps prevent casting shadows, which will only make it smaller.
That's a space that is absolutely crying out for a 25" deep, 84" tall monogram-style reefer the clients probably can't afford. I'd want glass-fronted cabients for plate & glass storage, too (I like open wire shelves so I can see the "inventory" too--but others differ on that).
Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
I was thinking same about the fridge
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
you could "sneak" a multi-shelf roll-out unit (or a stack of drawers) into one "leg" of the corner; then use a half-moon lazy susan for the other.
I like this suggestion - so the half-moon lazy susan doesn't spin all the way around, just a quarter turn until it hits the cabinets? Is this "half-moon" lazy susan a stock item? I've never seen one. Definitely sounds like an option, 'tho. I don't even know how a "multi-shelf roll-out unit" works. Do you have a brand name or website you could recommend?
That's a space that is absolutely crying out for a 25" deep, 84" tall monogram-style reefer the clients probably can't afford
Fridge belongs to the renters, who don't have a red cent. Remodel is paid by the owner, who doesn't want to spend a nickel more than he has to (even 'tho the renter is his daughter! - go figure). Actually, the fact he's agreed to do the remodel at all is pretty significant. He's been "thinking" about this for years!"...an open mind is a powerful thing. The ability to listen to others is invaluable."
Jim Blodgett
what program is that?
what program is that?
Google Sketchup (free version, the older edition)
"...an open mind is a powerful thing. The ability to listen to others is invaluable."
Jim Blodgett
Edited 6/12/2007 10:02 pm by Huck
so the half-moon lazy susan doesn't spin all the way around, just a quarter turn until it hits the cabinets? Is this "half-moon" lazy susan a stock item?
Yeah, look under Amerock or Häfele or K&V; Amerock has better options, though.
Pivot post goes just inside the "crook" of the inside corner of the floor of the cabinets (precise dimensions in the fixture destructions). Amerock makes them in acrylic in 2-3 colors, and wireshelving in chrome & white. Amerock also makes their half-moons as a slider.
The pull out I was thinking of was a bit of to-fit casework. Think two, oh, 10" wide 25" tall end panels; these would sit on a "floor" 10" and a depth to fit a full-extension guide in the cabinet (on the cab floor), with a similar sized top shelf. The end panels would be bored for shelf pegs, and shelves or gondolas between those.
Or, Amerock makes a wire basket stack that fits a full-height opening like your proposed right-angle cabinet.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Revit has some unique stuff like that too
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Revit has some unique stuff like that too
Yeah, but the Revit rep was never nice to me, back in the cabinet shop days <g>
(Or, had formed a reasonably accurate impression of our VP "in charge of buyin' stuff" who always assumed that there were a couple nickles to spare in any dime, if pressed hard enough.)Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Put a 161/2"W 30"deep base cabinet in the corners..At least as much space as a carosel and easier to get to..See pic.(hope its not to big)
Bud
Very cool cabinet.
I was about to suggest that he does the garbage in a 45 deg corner unit ala lazy suzan style 3 bagger (waste/Plastic/organic).
On a hill by the harbour
I was about to suggest that he does the garbage in a 45 deg corner unit ala lazy suzan style 3 bagger
Where do I find one of these?"...an open mind is a powerful thing. The ability to listen to others is invaluable."
Jim Blodgett
Not sure what the brand is but go to any kitchen hardware place and they will find it for you.
If you cant find it let me know & I will find the mfg.
It is a lazy susan affair with 3 buckets
BTW I have been to Bakersfield in the early 80's
On a hill by the harbour
Edited 6/13/2007 5:04 pm by Novy
One cool thing about utilizing the corner for the garbage is you have all your cleaning supplies under the sink. I allways put in pull outs .
On a hill by the harbour
We found a corner trash cabinet made by Thomasville (Schrock):
http://www.thomasvillecabinetry.com/Specifications/Performa.pdf (see corner cabinet with rotating trash baskets on page 5)and also the innards that could go in any 36" corner base cabinet at:
http://www.kitchensource.com/trash/rs-recyclebins.htmWe decided against using this because the bins are relatively small, and leave a lot of empty space in the cabinet. We'll get better use out of the space by putting a more conventional lazy susan in the corner and using a rectangular (21" wide, 2 50 quart bins) trash cabinet elsewhere.Eric
I have a similar layout on the kitchen for my new house. What I'm doing different is 30" counters with A-shaped corners. The workspace is in the corner, so these cabs will be drawer units, and I may put some sort of shelf unit on top of the counter, in the far corner, under the upper cabinets. Or else that would be a good place for an appliance garage.
You can see some of this here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/talkingdog/437583218/in/set-72157600006535993/
I think the micro/hood is way over rated. I've put a few in but not at my own house. I have two girls and the first appliance they learned to use was the micro. I don't want them reaching high over a hot item on the stove to make a bag of popcorn. There are a few micros that mount under the uppers and free up counter space.
Likewise, I favour gas stoves because the controls are at the front.
Have a good day Cliffy
We have the micro hood and like it, but the KBDA disfavours it from a safety point of view. Anything hot should be handled at elbow height or it is too easy to tip towards yourself and spill hot stuff on your front when lifting down from up that high. Young healthy adults can handle it but weaker youngsters or elderly or arthritics can be easily hurt.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I think the micro/hood is way over rated
That's an interesting observation. Which makes me think about my own m/w, which is on a wire shelf with the top of the m/w about 66" AFF (and no where near stove or any other cooking appliance).
Which makes me then recollect about some installs I've seen where the m/w was moved to the "breakfast" area built-ins in a very satisfactory sort of way. Makes me wonder if this kitchen might not benefit from such a design.
Hmm, wonder if the old window opening might be reused (from the other side) as a m/w niche (presuming that many rental tennants already have a m/w of their own).
And, I'll admit to not liking the filter removal on the mw/hood combos at all (or that somebody is stuck with that horrible initial cleaning task after moveout near universally).Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
I think your on the right track by loosing the soffet and gaining storage space there. But really they need a dumpster, a lesson in organization and minimize all of the dodads.
Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
roar!! Truer words were never spoken! Fun environment to work in!"...an open mind is a powerful thing. The ability to listen to others is invaluable."
Jim Blodgett
One other idea is to go to 40" high counters. This gives you room for another drawer or for larger drawers. Depends on the client...I'm 6'2" and I love them.
I'm not about to give you a details "perfect answer." That's your job. I do have a few suggestions, though.
First of all, I'd find a large place where I could set up a "mock up" kitchen. This could even be in the back yard. Using light lumber and cardboard, make up 'pretend' appliances, cabinets, etc. This will let you play around, try things out, get the customer to provide some feedback.
Next, I might even watch the Lady fix dinner. See how she uses the kitchen. Try to imagine what will make things smoother for her.
Beyond the 'conventional' kitchen, I have four ideas for you to consider:
Consider "Smart Wall." http://www.businessfurnitureshop.com/Metro_SmartWall.htm This system, designed for commercial kitchens, let you readily make changes.
Consider replacing the under-counter cabinets with roll-out bins, accessible from the top. Many things ... pots, pans. baking sheets ... are much more accessible this way.
My experiences have shown that everyone gets shelving wrong. The lowest shelves - starting inches above the counter - are narrow, maybe only 2" deep. As the shelves get higher, they get deeper. Have the lady stand in front of the counter, and swing her arm up; the shelving depth should match that swing. The deepest shelf, the top one, should be no more than 16" deep. This shelf will rarely be higher than 78".
Few things are more critical than the electricity and the lighting. A skylight -think SolaTube- is a major plus. So is a window over the sink. Put a plug every foot along the counter ... more if that's where the appliances will be used.
The frustrating thing about kitchen work is that folks will shell out big bucks to get just the right tile or marble countertop ... than try to save the budget by skimping on the utilities. Big mistake.