Need Kitchen floor replacement. Home owner in S. OC, CA looking for contractor willing to trade floor + installation in exchange for advertising in welcome package to new home-owners.
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I'm trying to get a take on what you're offering?
my interpretation is you are soliciting a local contractor to provide all labor & materials for a new floor of your choosing after his / her removing & disposing of your present floor
in exchange for ten 60 second professionally prepared television ads to be shown during prime evening viewing periods judiciously spaced in the top ten rated shows in Orange County
and to stagger the presentation four more to be run during the final two episodes of this season's American Idol
and definitely full color full page ad material to be negotiated
where do we go from here?
Your assumption is not 100% correct, however if you want to know where we go from here, we can talk further. I am trying to ascertain whether you truly are interested or just have an extremely healthy sense of humor? American Idol, sorry. New home owners in South Orange County, CA--yes!
If you think you're going to find a quality contractor in SoCal willing to spend that kind of money on a floor, when they could hire a couple of kids to hand out their own brouchure; I think you better reconsider (to put it politely).
Bing
Who's talking about handing out flyers door to door with kids? As my post indicated, I am looking for a company (not an individual) who desires to grow their business via a proven advertising vehicle. We are a 20 year old company who produces the only Official Welcome Package in this area, in partnership with each numerous cities, chambers, civic organizations, and businesses going to 17,000 new homeower families per year with hundreds of advertisers from the mom & pops to huge corporations as SBC. With all politeness, I'd advise not to make assumptions.
going to 17,000 new homeower families per year
Have you ever done a follow-up survey of the advertisers to see how many jobs (not leads) they received from being included in the handouts? Was that data published anywhere?
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
yes in 20 years, many
publishers provide the vehicle; many companies get leads and jobs, but conversion is their responsibility, as most who advertise are aware
yes in 20 years, many
And what were the results? I see you didn't provide any specific data.
It seems that you're asking a contractor to do a $5,000 material and labor project in exchange for maybe $500 worth of handouts. And the handouts go to every new homeowner in the area, they're not even targeted at any specific audience. Seems that most of the new homeowners would be strapped for cash & capital after closing on a new (or new to them) house, and most won't have any money available for renovations.
I don't see the benefit to the contractor. But I guess it works in California.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Many new Home-Owners in affluent areas of South OC are doing massive home-remodels. $500 worth of hand-outds does not describe what we do. Some advertisers spend as much as $17K annually. I had an estimate on the job and it came in at around $1200. One of our media that would be a good fit is: http://www.HomeAtLastMagazine.com.
$500 worth of hand-outds ... it came in at around $1200.
Tell ya what ... you don't tell me what my floor job is worth, and I won't tell you what you handouts are worth.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
We particapated in something like this poster is suggesting, a "welcome package" the company would drop off bags with local info provided by the business, for a fee.
On the up side, we were the only remodeling company in the "Bag" and I can't remember the exact figure or where I saw it, but roughly 90% of people who buy an existing home, not a new home, plan on some improvement upon move in. I'd like to see the numbers of 1) People who actually do something, 2) percent that hire the job out opposed to those that DIY, and 3)average value of the job.
For us the cost of the service was low, though it didn't generate any direct business to speak of.
My thoughts, If you move into a new house, have a ton of stuff to un-pack and put away, What do you do with a bag full of flyers and phamplets?
I'm sure you're sick of reading these responces by now hunh? ;)
Here's my question.... Why not just hire the job out?
I'm guessing it's because you think by trading services you will come out ahead, get the job done cheaper then it's actual value.
What's the upside to the professional flooring company? If he was interested in your services would he not seek you out?
The company I work for has completed many projects for our vendors, suppliers, and other business associates, everyone of them has been completed for money, and we buy thier services constantly. Reason being, money and cash flow is king, trading services can lead you into the 'po house in a hurry.
Now if I have an electrian buddy, and we're both working on our houses I may trade a day at his house trimming or framing for his time at mine runing wire, more then likely a 12 pack would do it,
At a professional level, I just do not see it working out well for one of the parties. Find a floor company that you trust, pay them what they ask, and while they are there, try to sell them some of your services.
Much barter is conducted in the advertising and contracting industries--at least in this area. When both parties are interested in can work out swimmingly and both do it at their wholesale cost--and view it as additional work over and above their usual work load and profit, and at a time/place both are able to fit it in. Obviously it has to be a win-win for both, in essence a good match. From the sounds of things on this board thus far, most respondents are not well versed in either advertising or barter, so I probalby picked the wrong venue.
I'd have to say, judging by the responces, you have picked the wrong venue ;)
I am certainly not well versed in Barter nor Advertising, though one comment struck me.
view it as additional work over and above their usual work load and profit, and at a time/place both are able to fit it in.
I can't understand why a company would want to take on work "Over and above" normal work load for less profit then normal, and if they had a time and place to fit it in, why not fit in that more profitable work?
try posting this at the John Bridge tile forum, a lot of guys there are in your area I believe :)
Good luck
The assumption is that not everyone (contractor or publisher) has every single space filled up with business all the time. Thus, empty space to fill with barter. Hey thanks so much for your advice on the other forum--much appreciated.
Melinda, quick lesson in tax accounting: If I remodel the local Chevy dealer's showroom in exchange (barter) for a new Corvette, the transaction goes on the books of both companies as a sale at the usual retail price of the Corvette. Putting it on the books at a reduced "our cost" amount (no profit) is clear tax evasion. Consult your accountant.
Around here, barter is only practiced by cash-poor companies struggling for work. As you said, it's best suited for those who could use "extra" work. Companies doing well exchange services all the time, but on a cash basis. In SoCal, things may be different. After all it never rains there, either...:)
DG/Builder
"most respondents are not well versed in either advertising or barter, "No need to try the condescending approach here. Some members of this board gross millions. I've invested a few thousand in advertising in my lifetime, but in carefullyu selected venues, not for barter. The contracors I have known who ever performed or showed any interest in barter work were the bottom feeders. The reason they had a hole in the scedule available to fit you into, was because they did not have a customer with money to put in that hole. That was becasue the customer with the money to spend had looked them over and decided to spend their money elsewhere.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Now that is more the kind of solid info you can provide for starting discussion.. Maybe not interesting most of us, but at least a starting point for discussion.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I see it a little bit different than that. She did say thatthe flyers would go to new home-owners, not to everyone in the area. A welcome wagon type basket gets more than average attention because people moving into a new area have questions.
Where can I order a pizza while we unpack these boxes
Where can I find aplumber to turn on the water to the spare wing bathroom
Which nearby bank has the best deal in a new account
Who can I hire to replace these floors...It is a fact of the remo industry that the most money spent nationwide on remodels in spent during the first two years of ownership. They don't seem to fit the profile you have in mind of poor newlyweds.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
You make some good points again. But, I interpret "new homeowners" to be people who have recently bought homes, both new and used. Yes, many people make renovations soon after moving in to a used home, but if they wait a year or so to do that, chances are that they can't find your brochure, and hopefully (for them) they do some research and get referrals from other HO's.
CAG raised a good point. Where do you put the bag of brochures when you're unpacking boxes? The pizza joint goies on the side of the fridge, along with the cleaners and the bank, but most goes in the kitchen drawer along with the dead batteries and rubber bands and cheap screwdrivers.
If I was moving into as new area an needed a reference for a plumber or whatever, the first person I would call would be the realtor that represented me when I bought the house. Or read the inspectioon report and call rjw and ask for a referral.
I'm sure the welcome bag has a good purpose. But I think the way the situation was originall ypresented here, it wasn't a fair deal.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Actually, it wasn't really "presented" at all. Nothing was tangibly shown from either end -- abstract concepts merely were presented in hypothetical context, thus erroneous conclusions may have been drawn. With 20 years experience of successful clients and successful barter matches, I know that it works and has not been the result of a bunch of losers with excess time on their hands and lack of business, as someone insultingly implied. But it makes no sense to continue to debate that issue.
The purpose of placing a classified ad in this forum wasn't to engage in ongoing non-productive online debate over the merits of one's products or services 'sight unseen.' It was to explore the possibility of hooking up two interested parties to further explore the idea of bartering their mutual services between the two of them to see if it made sense. It appears this may have the wrong forum for that--or at least the wrong timing--so I will look elsewhere. To those of you who offered suggestions, I thank you.
Blah blah blah...
This isn't an attempt at barter, this is an attempted con. One person sought tangible goods and services - that cost real money and time - in exchange for a promise. You spend all this money and sweat now, and I will make it worthwhile for you later.
I have played this game with advertising folks too many times over the years. They always, as in this case, wanted their benefit from the transaction up front. All they could offer were promises of benefit to me after I had provided the benefit to them. Burned, I have been.
True barter is when both parties have an exchange of equal value as perceived by the recipients. I do this for you, you do this for me. In advertising, there are no guarantees, nothing tangible. Just promises. You can't get your money back if that $3500 ad campaign doesn't work. But the salesman still has his money, or in this case, a Kitchen floor.
Tell you what, Melinda, make a cash guarantee of the equal value you have attempted to promote and you may find a taker. In other words, hold yourself to the same standards you would a floor installer. If your product doesn't work, make it right.
Of course, I'm just bitter about all of the money I have wasted on advertising over the years that did not pay off... I wish advertisers had to live up to the same standards that trades people do, i.e. have guarantees.
This isn't the proper forum to ask people to work on the barter system. Not a very worthwhile proposition in my opinion. We're professionals here, many with advertising and marketing in place. Try Craig's List.
Thanks for the suggestion--will try that. I am new to this forum and assumed the classified section was the proper place. Just fyi, many high level professionals in the advertising industry conduct transactions routinely on the barter system. It is fascinating from some of the responses that some contractors consider themselves High-Level professionals and assume that someone in the advertising industry is just a door-to-door flyer person!
In process of planning some home remodel jobs, I stumbled across this forum via the magazine. Figured that it was worth a try--assumed I'd find contractors who might see the value of advertising to new home owners--many of whom are doing home remodelling projects in my area.
I'd like to adress some of your issued raised here.You mention value - specificly the value of your advertising, but the tenor of the first posting you made indicates that you might not hold the value of a flooring contractors work in high value. That may not be the case, but it is the way you presented yourself originally.WE contractors are used to being expected to offer something for nothing, so maybe you can put those two pieces together in your mind and come to understand the way you - or your idea presented - was recieved. We professionals are used to getting paid fair value as defined by dollars, and again are used to paying fair value in dollars. If an ad of a certain kind fits the advertising plan of a company, there is budget to pay for it, and the ad is developed and the investment is made. thje cost is a set planned percentage of each and every job recieved - so you should be able to see from that how the question exactly what percentage of leads are commonly generated is a very valid and necessary one. It establishes the value of what you offer.On the other side of that coin, a kitchen floor is a variable investment cost that must be described accurately as to size and materials in order to appoximate the value of it in turn. It might be worth several hundred or several thousand.You have been asked valid questions pertaining to the nature of your offer. Without better descriptions, the offer probably has little or no meaning.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!