Am currently in the process of remodeling a fifteen year old home. Was able to tear up old ceramic tile in bathrooms, hallways, closet, etc. and retile. In these areas the tile was applied directly to the subfloor so I was able to put down cement backerboard and tile over it. Am now tearing up the tile in the kitchern. It appears that this tile was not applied directly over the subfloor. A closer inspection reveals the subfloor had a layer of felt paper applied, then a screening material was applied and the about 2″ of concrete applied on top of this. Then tile was applied. The problem is that the old tile was cracking and so is the concrete. If I lay backerboard on top and then retile, I will need to raise all of the cabinets to allow sufficient toe room under the cabinets. The other option it to break out all of the old concrete and then put down cement backerboard before tiling. In either case, a lot more work than I anticipated. Am looking for suggestions around this. If I elect to have the work done by a someone else, what is my best approach, do I look for a specific type of tile setter who specializes in this work or is this a pretty common flooring renovation that the majority of tile setters can deal with. Looks like more work than I want to handle as a do it yourselfer.
Thanks.
Edited 3/12/2003 12:54:05 PM ET by Kentucky One
Replies
What's the subfloor made of? There's a good chance that the reason the tile and the mud base have cracked is because the floor isn't stiff enough. Either the joists are deflecting too much, or the subfloor between the joists is deflecting too much. If that's true, IMIO (in my inexpert opinion) you can't depend on the backer board to stiffen the floor enough, and you'll probably have to add another layer of subfloor. On the bright side, that would reduce the height difference you have to adjust.
Edited 3/12/2003 4:03:19 PM ET by Uncle Dunc
Think maybe the mud base is to heavy for the joists he's got underneath it?View ImageGo Jayhawks
You mean the floor might be inadequate for the mud base but could be stiff enough for the backer board? That's certainly a possibility. My informal calculation is that the difference is about 20 PSF. Shall I be the one to tell him he needs to consult an engineer, or do you want to? :)
A little strange that CBU was used everywhere but the kitchen. How come?
Is the kitchen floor badly pitched?
Does the tile go under the cabs?
A fifteen year old house with a mud job is questionable as compared to the rest of the house. Seems like they had a different tile guy come in. Seems to me the mix was probably a wrong mix. Maybe a 3:1 and too wet rather than a 4-5:1 and dry!
A stiff wet mix 3:1 will be sure to crack under any conditions below it.
If the mud seems dense than my guess is probably right.
Rip it all up no doubt. Check the plywood to the joists. Screw it down really well and add another layer of 3/4" CDX then "wonderboard", and go to town. I'm sure you wont have any problems with that method. Just add some type of shoe molding to make up the difference at the kicks under the cabs.
YA gotta charge what ya gotta charge.
I like WONDERBOARD in areas that are questionable because IMO its a better board than any other.
Personally Id do a mud job but my guess is you dont wanna get involved with that which is fine unless necessary as in a badly pitched floor.
Do it!
Namaste
Andy PS....CAG..I'm sure the floor joists on a first floor are strong enough....Id be seriously surprised if they werent.
"As long as you have certain desires about how it ought to be you can't see how it is."
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Edited 3/12/2003 6:16:01 PM ET by Andy Clifford(Andybuildz)
Hire an engineer.
Floors fail because of live loads not dead loads. 2" of concrete attached to the subfloor should be stiff enough to not fail.
Since your tearing out the floor, follow the directions for the required support for your thinset and grout and you should have no problems.
(I think the thinset I use recommends 3/4" plywood over 2x10@16".)