Replies

1. 
   Piffin | Jan 28, 2008 07:11pm | #1

   Bad guess. There are extreme casees where you can squeeze it that close, but most times you need a minimum of 42" top edge to top edge and sometimes 49". Going more than 48" makes for extra work.

   Part of this hinges on the operability of things like refer doors, DW opening space, etc with pass by, and whether this will be a one or two cook kitchen.

   With only 36", you will find times that you cannot install an appliance or use it freely.

    

    

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2. 
   user-209584 | Jan 28, 2008 07:16pm | #2

   I think NKBA guidelines are 42" -48"

   Bobbi
1. 
   thebozer | Jan 28, 2008 07:18pm | #3

   excellent. thank you.

3. 
   susiekitchen | Jan 28, 2008 07:51pm | #4

   Recommended minimum is 42-48" (I hold 48" when at all possible) between any 2 banks of operable cabinets (or appliance/cabinet) to be sure that there's sufficient walk space and that door swings/drop-downs don't conflict.

   All that being said, I will sometimes do more than 48". Generally I do it when there are cabinets in a U around the island. It can make walking around the island more comfortable. The last house I did this in had a large range and a farmhouse sink, and when we dry-set the island at 48" it just felt way too tight. It was visually cramped by the 2 large elements facing each other. We moved it to about 57", and it looked and felt much better and was well within triangle limitations. In other instances I've bumped the distance by 3-6" with good results.

   I know 3" seems like a small amount, but it's amazing the difference it makes!

    

4. 
   bp21901 | Jan 28, 2008 09:18pm | #5

   42" minimum but 48" is nicer to work around.

   We had our island fixed before refinishing our kitchen. As part of the update, I put wheels on the island and like it a lot. Of course this won't work where sink/electric is involved in the island.

5. 
   DoRight | Jan 28, 2008 09:47pm | #6

   3 feet can work fine in at least some circumstances.  I lived in a kitche with a six foot long island opposite a Dishwasher and sink with only three feet.  Three is enough to pass behind a person working at the sink.   If you are looking for a trophey kitchen, three feet is not grand.  At three feet, it is not comfortible to pass by the DW when the door is  open.  Again do able.  3' 6" would make even passing by an Open DW fine. 

   I think 3 '6 would be a great distance.  Some say 4 feet or 4 6", but I think it is nice to be at the sink and be able to turn around and be working at the island with not much more than a short step.  Bigger is not always better.

1. 
   VaTom | Jan 28, 2008 10:09pm | #7

   3 feet can work fine in at least some circumstances

   3' worked fine here too.  It's where the refer door opens.  Not part of the traffic pattern then. 

   We did a lot of experimenting before settling on that spacing.  Farther (readily available) would have been worse.  Works very well for 2 cooks.  PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!

6. 
   CapnMac | Jan 29, 2008 12:01am | #8

   Normally, 42-48"

   But, smaller spaces can work, but, the traffic and the "what" is on the surfaces matters a lot IMO.

   Cooktop to counter?  45 good, 48 better (not a good idea to bump the person stirring the roux into hot burners).  Cooktop to Fridge?  48 to 54, otherwise the people digging for ice in the maker will clout pot stirrers right in the head (add to this value if the fridge is a big-door, like a 36" Sub Zero, as that door is the same width.

   Back wall to a work surface-only island?  Sure, run that baby down to 36"  Mind you, that's where everyone will try to squeeze through (since people have a 'magnetism' for constricted spaces).

   Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
1. 
   DoRight | Jan 29, 2008 12:48am | #9

   If you can open the fridge and smash the guy at the stove's head, then your problem has nothing to do with whether the island behind the fridge is only three feet away.  Open that baby up to 12 feet and the same fridge with shame the head if the fridge is that close to the stove.

1. 
   CapnMac | Jan 29, 2008 02:10am | #10

   can open the fridge and smash the guy at the stove's head, then your problem has nothing to do with whether the island behind the fridge is only three feet away

   <sigh>  Happened at my dad's place just making christmas dinner <g>.  In all fairness, the fridge to island dimension is only 35" in that house--but it's the elbow of the "ice getter" (reaching up into the ice maker box for water glass filling) that usually nets a person a poke in the ear while workign over a hot stove.

   Been there done that, now wear chef attire so as to not splattter on one's "good' clothes <g>Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)

1. 
   DoRight | Jan 29, 2008 03:58am | #13

   It sounds like you are saying the stove is in the island and the fridge opposite it.  I was thinking side by side and could not figure out why it would matter whether the island were 3 or 12 feet away. 

   Sure a firidge opposite the stove, not a great plan.  You know you need to get in the fridge while at the stove.  Probably not a great design to have any appliance opposite each other unless you have five feet or so.

   I guess I have a liking to islands with no appliances, other than maybe a trash smasher.  In which case 3' 6" is nice.  If you really have an entertainment kitchen one side of the island should be more generous as you know people will be milling somewhere.

1. 
   CapnMac | Jan 29, 2008 04:05am | #14

   I was thinking side by side and could not figure out why it would matter whether the island were 3 or 12 feet away. 

   Gotcha.

   I guess I have a liking to islands with no appliances

   I can see that, a bit--but I have to squint a bit <g>

   I'd much rather have the cook top in an island, where it can be worked from either side (this is good for people insisting on gabbing at the cook, or stirring things that want a lot of stirring, like rissoto or rouxes).

   What I've never quite "gotten" was the "here, let's put chairs so people can sit close enough to be splatted by cooking bacon" sort of island.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)

2. 
   DoRight | Jan 30, 2008 03:24am | #15

   You say you don't like the kind of cook island where people can sit so close as to get splattered.  Well, how big does a cook island have to be before that is not a problem.  My wife hates teh idea of a cook top in the island, but I can see how it being there can make for a better kitchen triangle.

3. 
   CapnMac | Jan 30, 2008 03:48am | #16

   don't like the kind of cook island where people can sit so close as to get splattered

   Well, it's more a case of the "looks good" islands with not nearly ehough practicality.  Now, in all fairness, there are entire kitchens that are more obviously "sets" for "how a kitch should look" rather than useful places ti engage in food preperation.

   I'm not nearly flexible enough anymore in opiniom, too.  So, my thinking tends to be uncompromising (or, "stubborn and simpled-minded" in a recent opinion <g>).

   Seating area at an island is not the 'problem' per se.  If that is what is wanted, that's ok.  Go ahead and celebrate that then.  Bump up a counter to 42 tall and give a baclsplash to the cooktop.  Or some similar way to define the two different functions.

   Shoot, bump the cabinet depth out to 27 there at the cooktop, and let the raised counter overhang, too.  Lets a person have the option to use that stand-up height for buffet service straight from the stove (or from covered pots for the neatniki <g>).

   Lots of ways to go about this stuff, really.  I've jsut nver seen the use of a 4x8' island with only a 10" bar sink in a corner.  Especially if somebody forked over for six burner range or cooktop.  Even with the 48" wolfie, it's hard to get two cooks on that top.  Set in an island with aproximately equal access from either side, and you can get close to four folks working (and a bit of effort from the chow out of the deadbeats drinking your bar dry can be quite satisfying--I'm told <g>).

   But, I'm biased.  Others differ.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)

4. 
   DoRight | Jan 30, 2008 08:42pm | #17

   I think my wife likes the unobstructed island as a work space.  A place to roll out dough and through pizza crusts out.  A place to mix cookie batter with forty-seven different bowls, containers of sugar, containers of flour, etc.  You are right in that a 4 by 8 island for such a purpose would be over kill, and a four foot depth is a waste as it is too difficult to reach to teh ohter side.

5. 
   Piffin | Jan 30, 2008 09:30pm | #18

   For that sort of use, the height is as important a variable as the placement. Lower heights of 30-32 inches works better for heavy work while higher at 38-40" works better for intricate things like fine cake decorating.Next up - elevator islands!;) 

    

   Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

6. 
   DoRight | Jan 30, 2008 10:50pm | #19

   I think if an island is truely and island and thus in the middle of a kitchen, then a raised island would look bad.  Can't say for sure since Ihave not seen one, but just my thinking,

7. 
   DoRight | Jan 30, 2008 10:51pm | #20

   And I do all the pizza making and I like the 36ish inch top.  As for cake decoratiing, that is what cake plate pedistal duellybobs are for.  And put it on a lazy susan, and wow, now you are taking cake decorating.

2. 
   mike_maines | Jan 29, 2008 02:34am | #11

   people have a 'magnetism' for constricted spaces

   Isn't that the truth!

   I've seen as tight as 30" for a non-traffic path; I didn't think it would work (I was installer, not designer) but it wasn't bad.  When I'm designing I start at 42, more for high traffic, less for low traffic or one-cook kitchens.

7. 
   Riversong | Jan 29, 2008 03:04am | #12

   The National Kitchen and Bath Association recommends 42" for one cook and 48" for two cooks.  If the island is also a landing area for an opposing fridge, then it should be no more than 48" from the door of the fridge.

   Be careful not to let a corner of the island cut into the work triangle.

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8. 
   IdahoDon | Jan 31, 2008 03:18am | #21

   I like to design on the spot if possible with full size mock ups of the counter tops and go from there with the client walking through how they actually like to cook.  This is especially useful when working with odd sized spaces.

   3' is tight if we're talking traffic space or when two cooks might need to pass each other regularly and especially tight if two cooks might be working back to back in the space.

   There are always exceptions and unless you're good at anticipating how people work from a paper sketch, it's hard to beat a mock up.  My last kitchen island was 37" between counter tops on each long side, 44" to a baking center/traffic area and 20" from a seldom used section of cabinets.  That's tight and especially tight for a busy kitchen, but the kitchen function great with a half dozen cooks because the secondary work stations are spread out, there is a secondary sink opposite the island, a secondary fridge is also opposite the island, and the cooktop on the island was selected because it can be used equally well from two sides.   For cooks who like to cook, a tight kitchen is often more fun because they don't have to walk so much.  Many chefs prefer a tight kitchen.

   Good mocking!

    

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