Anybody know of a good guide for kitchen lighting or….even better somebody want to design the lights for my kitchen?
U shaped 6 ft short leg with fridge eight foot bottom of the u with stove and cabinets…..12 foot long leg of the u with cabs sink base and dishwasher. I’ll give you the cabinet sizes if you want. Only lights now are a ceiling fan and one crappy
&
#160;
Getting the details right for a wall assembly with the control layers to the exterior and lots of drying potential.
"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.
Dig into cutting-edge approaches and decades of proven solutions with total access to our experts and tradespeople.
Start Free Trial NowGet instant access to the latest developments in green building, research, and reports from the field.
Start Free Trial Now
Replies
Put a recessed over range, in front of frig. in front of any pantry, in front of any window and over sink 24" from outside walls . Use IC cans if insulation above. Install puck lights under counter
Would you put a can in over the stove if there will be a combo hood microwave. Say.......didn't you used to host This Old House.
No I didn;t host TOH but I am still better looking than him and know a hell of a lot more too!!!!!
And all of us know more than that jackazz who is the host now!!!
Almost too many possibilities to list. You will certainly want a main light and under counter lights. You may want task lighting in specific areas in addition. In California, we are required to have half of the wattage in kitchen lights be "high efficacy" lighting, which translates to either fluorescent or LED lighting - so for each 100 watt incandescent, my Calif. house has to balance that with something like 5 18watt fluorescent lights. We also are required to have the "high efficacy" lights on separate switches from the incandescents.
There have been some threads in the past on Breaktime and for undercounter lighting, the the opinion ran significantly in favor of halogen lights. A track light can allow for a variety of halogen task lights. If you went with a track light, you would need to decide on a line voltage or a low voltage system, with the low voltage requiring a transformer, some of which are bulky.
I just bought a line voltage track light system at my local electrical supplier as I needed a 6ft track and Home Depot only had 4 or 8 foot lengths and reportedly cutting them would violate UL certification and thus risk getting dinged by my county inspector. The 6' unit cost me about twice what a seemingly identical unit would cost from the big box.
There are a lot of kitchen books out and almost all of them have chapters on lighting - including some you can browse at your local Lowes or Home Depot. You can also do a Google search and some websites have at least a few kitchen lighting ideas. Some of them can get pretty technical in terms of how many lumens to have on your various counters, etc.
Then there is the old "hang an old Coleman lantern from the ceiling and forget about it" school of thought... Have fun.
Well we got the ceiling fan in the center that shines absolutely onot nothing. I'm curious, when you install all of this separate lighting do you end up with wall plates that have seven switches in them? There is one main enterance to the kichen with a side enterance that is rarley used.
One thing I've thought of is that you don't want to have to little light or not enough options when you are done. If you have to many lights you can always just not turn them on. As others said have some cans, some task lights, and some under cabinet lights. But put them on separate switches. Some people like to put all the switches together so it has a wow effect but I really dislike that because it can be so confusing. Put the ones you think you will use the most in a good convenient spot and the others somewhere else off to the side somewhere. You will know where they are.
One other thing I like is to have a small table lamp on the counter. It adds a little character to the area. Maybe you could switch the receptacle for it.
I know my wife likes to have a few lights on all the time for a mood affect. Maybe the switches that are off to the side would be for them. Like half the under counter lights and the table lamp.
even better somebody want to design the lights for my kitchen?
Well, I could, (I'm pretty free theis week), probably only $500-750, too--but the $12-1500 for travel expenses to Kansas and back kind of spoils the economy of it. (And I've learned my lesson about trying to do this remotely with people I've neaver met--hence the charges.)
Kitchen lighting design is the simplest complex thing that can be screwed up so easily. Which can leave everybody mad at everbody else and no gettin' over it at all.
The design needs to "know" what the users want and expect, and what the users don't know they could have, too. Simple things like do the users have "scenes" in mind, or do they really want one switch to turn every thing on full tilt (some do).
Personally, I find that many wind up liking a compromise answer along the lines of general lighting from the ceiling on a dimmer, then undercabinet general lighting, then task lighting, giving a manageable three switches to wire up. That combo allows a "night light" use of the kitchen, and adding light as needed for the task at hand. But, each kitchen is unique--that's also true of the kitchen users, too.
My son's SIL spent some time as a lighting designer. We had a similar discussion a few years back, and she callously raised her eyebrows when I promoted my favorite kitchen lighting scheme - oh so retro now though.
Basically, the 1970's 2 ft by 4 ft ( 4 ft by 8ft) prismatic or milk white translucent panels backed by fluorescent tubes with individual switching would STILL be my choice for a new kitchen.
Also undercabinet strip fluorescents full length also.
Simple, efficient, effective, low cost........
BTW own kitchen has 2-8ft, 6-4 ft, and 4-2 ft fluorescents as described above.
Edited 4/9/2008 9:14 am ET by junkhound
Ummmmmm.....you fly American right, might not be able to get to Kansas City anytime soon. I don't think we can blow half the budget on the "lighting consultant" but I do appreciate the offer.
I'm just trying to figger it out as I can go along, just don't want to wind up with one of those switch plates with the seven switches in it. I know the ceiling fan light will need to be controlled from both entrances. Generaly speaking when do you put the switch for the undercabinet lighting? I know the pendants over the sink can be controlled with a swtich by the sink, only need lights over the sink when you're washing dishes right?
you fly American right,
Spooky, matter of fact, only miles I still have are 'vantage <ugh> <g>.
I know the ceiling fan light will need to be controlled from both entrances. Generaly speaking when do you put the switch for the undercabinet lighting? I know the pendants over the sink can be controlled with a swtich by the sink, only need lights over the sink when you're washing dishes right?
See, that's why the answer is "depends on the kitchen, depends on the client."
In some cases, it can make sense to have all the task lights on one switch, other times on separate ones, Susie's term "schemes" is apropros. My personal bias is to limit the number of switches whenever possible (gang box for 6 is a pain, 7 is wierd). Which can mean just making the switches smarter rather than more often.
Been to the switch game a time or two. Includuing a client who haf five defined "moods/uses" for the kitchen, and would not abide wall mounts of any kind (not switches, not recepticals, nada). All the electrical wound up in pancake boxes under the upper cabinet bottoms (electrician just loved that.) Kind of cool, though, four smart dimmers all out of sight, looks just like you are waving your hand under the cabinet as you walk by.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
If it helps to see a real layout, I'll be happy to post the layout I did for my proposed kitchen remodel (hopefully before I head for the retirement home) that includes the laundry/side entry of our house. Let me know; I can post a bitmap or jpeg.
My kitchen is 11x17 and i put in six cans with CFL floods. I have three cans over the walkway on one switch and the other three over the work areas on another. If i turn all six on it is REALLY BRIGHT in there, and all for less than 100 watts total.
I have under-cabinet puck lights i'll add when i do the backsplash....about 2010 at the rate i'm going.
I do lighting layouts for a lot of my kitchen clients. I have to agree with Cap'n Mac that you can easily screw it up, and there's not enough info in a description to begin to know what to do.
That said, here's how I approach lighting with my clients:
You need "walkin' around/thru" lighting. This can be a single, decorative fixture or it can be a bank of recessed lighting switched so that they can be turned on/off from various entrance points into the kitchen. These let you get the groceries in, get a glass of water, etc.
You need general illumination and task lighting to work in the kitchen. I think that recessed lighting works best for general illumination, placed anywhere from 18-24" from the wall where there are wall/base cabinets and about 30" from the wall in front of ovens, fridges, pantries, etc. Generally, recessed lighting can be placed about 48" c/c; I've done some slightly closer and some farther apart.
Undercounter lights make any task easier; I've used all the types, but Xenon seems to be the current trend. Switch these if possible instead of using individual rocker switches on the lights. It's a pain to switch each light and halogens are brutally hot if you miss the rocker. I also like hi-lo features so you can adjust the light level.
Your hood should have good lighting for the cooksurface, so you could probably skip a recessed over the stove or move the lights on each side around so that they shed some additional light in that area.
What Cap'n Mac said about themes isn't something for the trendy. I call them schemes, and all they are is the arrangement of lights for a particular activity. Just think about how you use the room through the day. For weekday breakfast, if no one cooks, about all you need is general lighting and light on the dining surface. During meal prep, you're going to have most of the task lighting on and maybe any additional lighting over a peninsula or table. If you entertain in the kitchen, you'll probably only need some of the recessed lighting, maybe the range light or interior cabinet lights if you have those. In the evenings, you may just want a night light effect so that you can safely see your way in and out.
Take all of these "schemes" into consideration when you place your lights and especially when you switch them. Don't just group all the cans on one switch, etc., or you'll end up with more light than you need most times. Most of your lighting should be on dimmers; I understand that the newer ones work better for fluorescents than they have in the past.
And pay attention to the lamps you put in the fixtures. I detest those screw-in CFL's. If you're going to use a fluorescent, I like what's called a 'PL' (I believe) lamp. No, you can't buy it in the local big box, and yes, it requires a special housing, but they do the job much better. You can get a 3500Kelvin lamp that's a good mix with incandescent light, or a cooler 4000K, but stay away from "warm white". They are not efficient, produce a ghastly look on your face and muddy color. Skip the 'daylight', too, which are usually in the 5000K range.
If you're going for halogen/incandescent, skip the household lamps. Try a Sylvania Capsylite (45 watt should be fine) for more sparkle and cleaner light. Next choice would be a reflector, but they don't light as efficiently, and they are a rather flat light. Both GE and Sylvania have good websites to investigate for more info.
And, I love the idea of adding lamps or sconces in the kitchen to add character.
Finally, I can put all the expensive cabinets I like in a room, but if it's poorly lighted, it's not going to be successful.
Good grief, ya sound just like my sons's SIL.
Did ya go to UW archy school too?
Nah, didn't go to archy school, but went to "dizzie" (designer) school!
Did a lot of retail store design when I first started, and it's all about presentation and lighting is at least 75% of that. Took some lighting design courses and found them very interesting.
Personally, I re-lit my really sorry kitchen awhile back, and the lady who used to live here came by, took one look and said, "Wow, you got all new cabinets!"
BTW, UW is Washington or Wisconsin??
WA, Seattle
Nice post Susiekitchen. Thanks! Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
You're welcome....I do tend to get carried away about some things, tho, don't I??
Not at all. Lighting is one of my weakest points. I haven't had much luck in my last two houses with the lighting. I'm relying on the electricians and it seems like they are weaker at lighting than me! The sad thing is that both of them would have been very good houses for creative lighting design. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
I'd tell you to try your local lighting showroom next time, but I don't think you'd have any better luck. Some consultants have training, some are just sales people.
If you're working on anything in the future, I'll be happy to give you a hand any way I can.
I appreciate the offer! I'll try both suggestions! Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
I'd tell you to try your local lighting showroom next time, but I don't think you'd have any better luck. Some consultants have training, some are just sales people.
Yeah, what Susie says.
All of the decent lighting professionals I used to know around Travis Co all now work in LA, NYC, Chicago and the like (and get fees like lawyers in court, too).
What's left are mostly saleas people--some of whom are pretty good, some not so much. The real problem is that most of the good ones don't really know why they are good. Sometimes they are just pulling things out of catalogs, and I can get the same info from Sylvan or Efco as they can.
Does not prevent a problem when the decorator insists that the client wants the high-dollar fixture with high-dollar, hard-to-find, lamps for overcabinet lighting, at least I can show how a git of high gloss paint and a "plain old" rope light will deliver the 1 FC at the floor for the indirect general lighting we've all agreed upon already (just at 1/4 the price).
Done this dance of casework, swithes, schemes, and dollars, a time or two. Just ask, maybe I've lived through that and kept the t-shirt.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Best kitchen lighting - daylight
Second best - Flush mount or pendant fixtures (CFLs fine in enclosed shades)
Third best - under counter xenon
Fourth - a few cans if you just have to have them, or need bright task lighting
Avoid - cans only; fluorescent troffers
Lighting should not be from one source only, but a layered and coordinated approach that produces excellence in both ambient and task lighting.
Jeff
Edited 4/11/2008 8:27 am ET by Jeff_Clarke
I replaced a can over the sink with a couple of pendants, same over an island. Now I don't light the back of my head. I used dimmers for "mood" lighting, they look great. I have under cabinet lighting which is also nice, no shadows, light on the task. My kitchen is older, the under cab lights are florescent and I used bottom cab moldings. I also have a ceiling fixture with three bulbs, lots of light that isn't really necessary most of the time. It's hard to beat task lighting under the cabinets. I don't care for cans, I prefer a clean ceiling look.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
I agree with you, nothing worse than working in a shadow. I find that one has to tell the electricians where to place the cans over the counter tops. I've been in 100,000 dollar kitchen remodels where the lighting comes down on the back of my head.
I have helped remodel several kitchens and here are some of my thoughts on lighting:
The nicest lighting I saw was where the cupboards had reeded glass in the doors and the there were small lights installed in the inside tops of the cabinets. Very classy, subdued lighting.
I like puck lights or even the little lights in tubes installed on the tops of cabinets shining to ceiling (no soffit), or installed on the bottoms of cabinets shining down on the counter.
I detest recessed lighting.
I like pendant lights, but be sure you allow for door swings! We installed several in a kitchen and the designer forgot that a cabinet door would smack into one of them when it was opened!
Another idea I liked, was windows (or glass block would be better, in my opinion), in the backsplash (between wall cabinets and countertops. You could do a double glass thing, maybe even reflective glass facing inward on the outside layer and put soft lights in the space between the panes of glass to be turned on at night.
Along with the idea of windows in the backsplash, I like the "borrowed light" concept where you use glass in walls or in doors between the kitchen and maybe a pantry or entry that has a natural light source. In a wall it creates an interior window that can be a nice addition to the design.
I also don't like an overabundance of recessed lighting, but in some instances, especially in larger kitchens, they make sense over lots of pendants.
Good tip about the door swings into pendants. Also have to watch in kitchens with full overlay doors on cabinets to the ceiling without a crown or top trim. Even the trim on recessed cans can catch those doors, so move the out of the way.