About a year ago, I started having problems with my Kohler 1.6 toilet which worked great for 7 years. It was not flushing well and I moved the plumbers’ helper into the bathroom to provide periodic assists. Afterwards, it would be fine for a week or so and then start over. I jiggled handles, checked internal parts, and called a plumber. For $30, he did the same thing and when he left, it worked, for a while.
So, I decided to replace the insides since I have done this many times in various houses. No instructions told how to get the stuck white nut off under the stem, but I eventually got help for my weak muscles from my nephew. We adjusted and readjusted. I tightened the bolts to the floor which were loose. It worked fine a couple of times and now it is back to its old trick of swirling the water and contents up before the water eventually drains out, leaving everything else behind. All of the water holes around the rim of the toilet flush water out when the toilet is flushed although when its really angry, it lessens the flush from the front holes. My nephew’s theory is that the problem is with the vent or air, but all of the other plumbing fixtures work including two other toilets.
Are there any new solutions or has this happened to anyone else? If I need to reset the toilet, let me know. I’ll have to import help to lift the heavy thing, but I know how to reset toilets.
By the way, I read an earlier discussion about wax rings as opposed to some of the newer ones. When I lived in Lincoln, Nebraska back in the 70’s there was a plumbing store that sold black foam ones. You could even layer them if they weren’ thick enough. I used them and liked them. I have never liked those sticky wax things although I know you pros use them all the time, but us periodic plumbers do better with something that works the first time, even if they do cost more. I haven’t seen the black wonders since I left Lincoln, so if I have to reset the stool, I need a source.
AuntBarb
Replies
One of two things is causing your flush problem.
First (though less likely, based on your description), the holes around the rim or the big hole in the bottom front may be clogged with hard water deposits. Sometimes you can clear these out with coat-hanger wire, sometimes you need to pour acid in the tank to dissolve the deposits.
Second, there could be something stuck in the "gooseneck", inside the lower back part of the bowl piece. This gooseneck-shaped passageway is the secret to the operation of a flush toilet, but of necessity the passageway is kind of narrow and twisted, and anything large (eg, a comb or child's toy) that falls in the toilet is apt to get stuck there.
So if clearing the water inlet holes doesn't do the trick (and it probably won't) you'll need to pull the toilet bowl, turn it upside-down, and probe in there with something to try to find what's snagged in there. If you're really lucky it will be obvious the moment you turn the unit over.
I guess your thinking of the long lego strips! Drove me nuts for weeks till I found it!
I agree with Dan from what you've described. Unless that is you have someone in the house who has taken to using a whole roll at a crack. <G>
I'd be looking at the rim holes first judging from your description of less water flow there when the problem is at it's worst....and especially so if your water is limey.
Here's a copy and paste of a previous posting.
If the holes under the lip are clogged, it may well take more than a good poking with a clothes hanger to open them and keep them open. I'll describe a procedure here that I've used on many occasions to resolve lime clogging of those holes. Bear in mind that it's best to wear some goggles and some rubber gloves for safety's sake. You also need to insure that you have good venting. Opening a window and using a fan would be best as you DO NOT want to breathe ANY of the vapors that may be produced. Hold your breath if necessary.)
You can use muriatic acid to open those holes. Should be available at a hardware store near you. First turn off the water to the toilet and flush the toilet, holding the lever down so that all the water in the tank drains away. Next, wipe and dry off the surfaces under the lip of the toilet. Then tape off those holes using a good quality
foil-tape (also available at that hardware store). This is the foil tape used for sealing HVAC ducts and the like. If you're not familiar, the folks at the hardware store should be able to guide you to it.
Once you have those ALL the holes taped off and sealed, lift the flapper in the toilet tank and insert a long-necked (12" - 16") flexible funnel in the hole. Now pour a just few ounces of the muriatic acid down the funnel. Remove the funnel, allowing the flapper to close and then turn the water back on so that the tank can
refill. You want to leave the muriatic in place for just a couple of minutes. When that time has elapsed, you need to reach under the lip and remove the tape. (Be careful here as the muriatic will then likely get on your hands. Fill and keep a bucket of water and a sponge handy from the get-go so that you can wash off any spills
that may occur during the procedure as well as having it there to wash off your hands if any of the acid gets on them............. and it gives you a place to tuck that funnel when you remove it from the tank.) Once you have the tape removed, flush the toilet. Your holes will likely be wide open and the toilet should flush well. If it's improved, but not totally open, you can repeat the procedure.
Be cautious and aware at all times what you do with the muriatic and anything that has muriatic on it, like those pieces of tape when you remove them. You wouldn't want to unintentionally damage anything in the room….......including yourself.
Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
Edited 8/11/2004 10:18 pm ET by GOLDHILLER
I've seen a similar description except that it advised using plumbers putty instead of the tape.
Never tried the putty. Wondered if it would hold up long enough. Since the foil tape is always with me anyway, I just use that.
Speaking of obstructions in the throat.......we had an intermittant problem after some visitors one night. They brought the kids with. Eventually, I discovered that one of those kids had dumped some quarters I kept in a jar into the bowl and gave her a flush. Don't know for sure how many went thru but I pulled the thing about a week later and there were 6 or so still lodged in there. Grrrrrrrrr.
At least it wasn't DW's jewelry.
Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
Plain white vinegar will dissolve most hard water deposits. it is also less likely to etch the porcelain and is a lot safer to use. I had luck on a toilet with a deposits removing the flapper valve and pouring vinegar down. Repeat every ten minutes or so for a few hours.
As the holes opened up I plugged them with duct seal so the vinegar flowed around to the ones still plugged. A stiff brush helped. Later I found a pipette brush that would have helped.
If you can do without the toilet for a day or two I would be tempted to fill a tub with vinegar. Three inches or so should do it, still a good thing vinegar is cheap, and invert the toilet in it for a couple of days.
Instead of acid there is a product called rydelyme (sp?) that is non toxic but works as well.
Here is another test. As the water is swirling around, pour a quart of water into the bowl. If it flushes right away, the water from the tank is not getting to the bowl fast enough.Make sure the water level in the tank is at the proper height and that there is the right volume of water in the tank.No bricks or jars to "save water".
If it doesn't flush, the problem is in the bowl.Before you lift it, suck out the water with a wet/dry vac. Less mess.And don't set a wet bowl on newspaper, the ink will transfer to whatever it is sitting on.
Zurn makes foam gaskets they call Neo-Seal. They are designed for wall mount toliet, but I see no reason they shouldn't work on a standard floor mount closet flang.
A local plumbing supply should have them in stock, as they are pretty common in commercial useage.
Dave
As a few others have mentioned, I suspect you might have something in the gooseneck. I had a problem at a lodge I worked at. Guests would come complain about toilet not flushing. I got the pleasure of going in and running the plunger for them - always suprised they wouldn't just do that themselves, but, they were paying $700 a night and thought maybe they shouldn't have to do such things.
After I plunge it, it is good for a few more days til sure enough, next guest complains. Did a lot of head scratching and tried everything I could think of. Every time I clear it I test it - more each time - throw lots of paper in, and never a problemfor me. Yet still get complaints every few days. When I finally pulled the toilet - thinking I might just have to replace it - I could hear a rattle in the gooseneck when I shook the stool. After a bit of shaking the thing in various positions, a small asprin bottle with the lid on it fell to the floor.
That little bottle must have bobbed around in there collecting paper till it was large enough to plug.
Threw the bottle in the garbage, re-set the stool, and went to put out the next fire. Never had another problem with that stool.
Holy cow! For $700 a night you should plunge my toilet AND wipe my butt.
we had same problem
on off etc
cause:
a fondue like stick stuck in the u turn
had to remove the toilet
turn it over
then we saw it by chance
Thanks to all of you. I poked at those holes with the wire from a coat hanger (stored with the plumbers'friend next to the stool) and they seem clean So, a new week-end project - get some help playing with the toilet. And, call around tomorrow to see if I can find those black seals. I may try the vinegar thing any way just to play it safe.
Don't have any kids, but I do have cats - maybe one of those dumped something in. I'll let you know what I discover.
Have had good success using the product CLR. Pour about a cup in the tank (not the bowl) and flush. You may have to repeat once or twice over a few days. We had the same flush problem and the CLR solved it.
I think it was kind of alluded to earlier, but thought I should reenforce it:
If you want to find out if a flushing problem is due to water flowing in too slowly or a plugged drain, get a bucket with about a gallon and a half of water in it and pour it rapidly into the toilet bowl (after first making sure the water level in the bowl is "normal"). If you get a good, solid flushing action when you do this, the drain is probably reasonably clear, and the problem must be due to poor flow between tank and bowl.
Another minor point: Just about all of those in-the-tank toilet bowl cleaners increase the viscosity of the water ever so slightly. This isn't a big deal for an older toilet, but with one of the newer water saver models the increaded viscosity can reduce water flow sufficiently to cause flushing problems.
All good ideas so far.
First when it's slow to flush, dump 2 gals of water straight down the bowl.
I have used plumbers putty and CLR following the procedure that Goldhiller laid out, execpt that I also sealed the Jet hole at the very botom of the bowl, then from the tank, filled the water passages in the bowl with CLR, let it set for a dfay and was done.
The 1.6 toilets all need a very strong flow from the Jet passage.
I really love our Kohler, it moves some tremendous loads thru just fine.
SamT