There’s been an interesting set of developments on a large commercial job site in central New York this month. CVS Pharmacy is building a large distribution warehouse nearby. To the dismay of workers and politicians in this area, the bid was awarded to a general contractor out of Kentucky. They did not hire much local labor. The electrical subcontractor was Walker Electric of Nashville, TN.
It turns out that Walker Electric hired seven illegal immigrants. A complaint was made, the immigrants were arrested and turned over to federal authorities. The code enforcement official shut down the entire job site.
The general contractor is now hiring a third party auditor to check every employee of every subcontractor. CVS was reported to fully understand the gravity of the offense and hired their own auditor to check out all the contractors on site as well. They will replace Walker Electric with a local contractor, and will also award the contracts for painting and overhead doors to local companies.
It seems that once the tip was investigated the local authorities and the project owner acted decisively to correct the problem. If there were more actions like this taken against employers using illegal workers the jobs outlook in this country would be better.
Replies
Do you know the name of the contractor form KY? We do some work with CVS so I'm curious.
Gray Construction of Lexington.
http://www.stargazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2009911190394
I don't think I've worked with them. Grant probably knows them.
Grant probably knows them.
I do. Good outfit from what I can tell. A college buddy of mine has worked for them for 25+ years. I've not worked for them directly, but have worked for two of the Gray brothers (I think there's three of them) on their personal homes. One brother is the vice mayor and the one whom I know fairly well is a darn good guy. Seems to care about a lot more than the bottom line. copper p0rn
I recently moved from Reno to St. Louis.
Amazingly enough, here my tile guy, my carpet crew, and the gardener are all well spoken, sober white guys. As is a nearby road repair crew, and the line at the local "day labor" place. So much for the theory that only misfits and immigrants will do these jobs.
The major difference? Here you have to show proof you belong her in order to get a drivers' license. That means a birth certificate, passport, or the correct visa.
What makes an illegal alien an illegal alien? Look up the terms in the dictionary: thery're from somewhere else, and are here in violation of our laws. That's all there is to it. It has nothing to do with taxes, ethnicity, or anything else. We have as much a right to secure our border as we do to lock our front door or toolbox.
Businesses need to heed the story of a Reno Businessman, Luther Mack. It's important enough that I will repeat it here.
Luther was a nobody who, long ago, had the wisdom to build the first McDonald's in Reno. Over the years he prospered, eventually owning a score of franchises; northern Nevada was his territory. The seeds of his destruction began to sprout in 2005, when his long-time office manager retired.
Her duties were taken over by the nice Mexican lady who had worked in the office for many years. She wasted no time. Teaming up with as assistant manager Luther had mentored, the two of them began mining the job applications for ID information. All manner of innocent folks, who had simply applied for work, or very briefly had worked for McDonalds, had their ID's stolen ... used to provide documents for the illegals hired there, and elsewhere.
In 2007 the IRS questioned a man about the $90,000 he had failed to report from working at McD's. The man was confused; he had worked there but a week back in 1998, claimed to have been fired on a pretext, and had not been back since. Funny, said the IRS ... our research shows you cashed a paycheck two months ago ... this isn't your name and signiture? The gig was up.
In 2008 the Feds raided every McD's in northern Nevada. 62 illegals were immediately deported, with twice that number held for further investigation. Hispanic services had a major hissy fit - casually forgetting the hundreds of innocent folks who had had their lives royally messed up by this bogus ID operation.
Luther was held blameless ... but he still lost every restaurant. From tycoon to unemployed in less than a year. These days, he has a single, small restaurant he's trying to get going. The lady and the manager have been convicted of the charges, and the corporation got a big fine.
There are lessons in that story for every businessman. None of us can allow the cancer of illegal immigration to continue.
That's what needs to happen (enforcement) but don't think it will given politics. Since this ain't the Tav I'll leave it at that.
"There can be no doubt that Socialism is inseparably interwoven with totalitarianism and the abject worship of the state…Socialism is in its essence an attack not only on British enterprise, but upon the right of ordinary men and women to breathe freely without having a harsh, clammy, clumsy tyrannical hand clasped across their mouth and nostrils" -Winston Churchill
Edited 11/23/2009 6:24 pm by jc21
Although its a business problem that lowers quality thru out the industry. Among other things.
That I believe after stripping a roof and finding 4 and 6 nails in a sheet of CDX and see caulk used for counterflashing among other things. Quality wise it's been a race to the bottom I think.
"There can be no doubt that Socialism is inseparably interwoven with totalitarianism and the abject worship of the state…Socialism is in its essence an attack not only on British enterprise, but upon the right of ordinary men and women to breathe freely without having a harsh, clammy, clumsy tyrannical hand clasped across their mouth and nostrils" -Winston Churchill
Can you explain why Luther lost his resturants? Something is missing in the story.
That was the end result of the legal machinations ..... his corporation was bought / split among three different firms. Corporation got fined. The perps got prosecuted. Luther is out of the McD's business.
It's kind of like the Exxon Valdez ... no matter the captain was off duty adnd the FO had the helm ... ship ran aground, the captain is, by definition, responsible.
And a whole lot of truly innocent folks are still putting their lives back in order.
I don't exactly understand the failure to report $90,000 from working at McDonalds. Don't employees there recieve a paycheck and have payroll taxes deducted from their check? Isn't the "reporting" done by the payroll company?
It wasn't an employee, the illegals were using his SS#
"It wasn't an employee, the illegals were using his SS#"And there are millions of illegals getting paid on a false SS#! The employer witholds and sends it to the government...and matches the payment too! How much benefits do you think those illegals get from the withheld taxes and matching money from the employer? If you guessed Zero, Zilch, Nada...you are Right! So....what incentive does the federal government have to stop the illegals from working here under a false SS number? None. In fact, they LOVE IT! They are getting free money that is bolstering up the fund and they don't have to pay anything back.
ding ding ding! Jim has the answer and wins the milkbone!
Often times, the one using the stolen identity claims 10 dependents so the bare minimum is withheld from the pay check. Still, there is money being sent to the government for payroll taxes and for Social Security.
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
and then it didn't show up on his tax returns when he filed
So someone who needed a social security number to work was doing contract labor somewhere and was 1099'd? How else would the government know about the $90,000? As an employer I couldn't get away with that, not in the construction industry, that's for sure. I'd be on the hook for the money. What's the empoyer's incentive to do that?
I don't know where or how they were employed. I know its common to use SS# for illegal workers, then the owner of the # gets W-2 or 1099
Somehow that still doesn't make sense to me. As an employer, you're definitely liable for taxes on the money you've doled out and 1099'd. It'd be a crazy or stupid thing to do.
I do know of illegals who are employed using fake social security numbers but the result is that they pay a lot of taxes and never get refunded, which the government likes, obviously. Unless, of course, the IRS buys into the idea that they have 10 dependents. Somehow I don't see that working for $90,000 worth of time though.
The only time I've had the government, i.e. EDD, call me about illegal use of a SS# was when someone was trying to file for unemployment benefits using the # given to me by one of my guys. They said they didn't care about the status of my guy at all, just whether or not they'd shell out for the claim.
You missed the point .. the man had not worked there, earning the mpney. Instead, folks in the employer's office provided his name, social security number, etc., to various illegal immigrants. These illegals did the work, got the paychecks ... but, naturally, were not able to file the real persons' tax return. Or, perhaps they tried - and the IRS had returns from multiple persons caliming to be this man. ID theft, pure and simple.
That's the key. At the time of the raid, Hispanic Services was all up in arms, wailing how these were just poor people, desperate to work, etc. Hispanic Services conveniently forgot to mention that every one of these illegals were using an innocent persons' identity, ultimately causing great harm to that other person.
Think about it for a moment .... just where does the information on fraudulent documents come from? The illegals manage to get 'papers,' but they're actually using someone else's information. Sure, the occasional source of the information might be a lost wallet or stolen mail ... but the application files of a large firm is an absolute gold mine for the ID theif.
I thought they got them down at the flea market for $5.
So the illegal folks who worked under false identities did pay the taxes then, because they were taken out of payroll and obviously never refunded..? In other words the taxes were overpaid, correct? That's what I'm understanding from what you're saying anyway. If that's the case, why would the IRS even be looking for the original guy?
The irs is different than futa and ss. Sometimes the Irs ahead of the game. Sometimes they are getting stiffed. I think when you add it all up, the Feds are making more money on illegals than they are losing. If that equation changes, they'll bounce them out of this country immediately.
That's exactly the point I've been trying to make. It's highly profitable for the government to be collecting taxes that never get the refund filed for. Illegals that use a ss# to work at a job and collect a regular pay check pay a lot more in taxes than citizens.
Whether taxed were paid or not is irrelevant - as, for that matter, is any general discussion of taxes. The IRS would naturally have a concern as to multip,e parties using the same ID, or the information in their records not being in accord with what is reported on a tax return. Obviously, the real person did not report the income that he never received on his tax return.
Look at it this way: this victim was at the bottom of the ladder, so he very well may have claimed the 'earned income tax credit.' With IRS records showing he had $90K more than what he was reporting, it sure looked like he was asking for a couple thousand dollars greater refund than he was entitled. There's plenty there to start investigating.
Was there a tax crime committed? Who knows ... that's what investigations are for. Naturally, once the inquiry suggested that there was fraud being committed ... and pretending to be someone else is fraud ... then it's time for other bureaucracies to become involved.
Let's carry this a bit further ... I doubt that fake ID's are used only for working at McD's. Folks use them for all manner of things, and even the best intentioned people can sin. When you have several people using the same ID, it's only a matter of time before one of them skips out on a loan, commits a crime, etc.- and thus will put all at risk. How would you like to find yourself extradited to Alaska, because there was a felony warrant out for someone who used your name? By the time the dust settled from that one, your life could very well have been ruined.
Good points all of them.. But it's so easy to get fake ID's that America could spend billions of dollars tracking them all down and in the end after spending those billions of dollars have very little or nothing to show for all that work..
A close friend of mine had his ID stolen.. it along with thousands of others were stored in one of those storage centers..A Mortgage refinance company thought that met the safety requirements. Thieves broke through the wall, took thousands of ID's and reaped millions of dollars worth of credit.
The local police department didn't have the personal to go after the thieves. (they were too busy ticketing people for being caught in an intersection when the light turned red.. Something like a $450.00 fine)
My point is there are thousands of ways to steal ID's and until that issue is solved Decent citizens will be at risk..
Just so you know? If your ID is stolen it can easily take 2 months of 8 hour a day phoning and faxing to get the whole thing cleared up..
I have lifelock.
Libertarians don't get skewed at http://thewoodshedtavern.com. We swear there too without timeouts.
My original question was "how is it that this came to the government's attention?", the idea that someone owed $90,000 in back taxes as a result of a stolen ss#. I still don't see the mechanism for arriving at that particular conclusion by the government. Oh well, it's not important, just confusing to me.
When the actual owner of the SS# gets the statement, he see's 90K more than he's made. If he don't get it, IRS gets a return with 90K less than their records. not 90K taxes.
Pretty much agree with the point of your post.
I gotta say though, CVS sucks! they just bought out a chain (Longs Drugs) out here and totally screwed up our local store. No more regional products and when you purchase one item your receipt is about a foot long with stupid coupons.
They no longer carry my favorite candy bar, the Big Hunk!
Rant over. Carry on.
Mike
Small wheel turn by the fire and rod, big wheel turn by the grace of god.
Longs Drug closed up shop out here...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints"
I don't really know what happened to them, at first I heard they were bought by Wallgreens, but then they all turned into CVR o9r what ever.
They were based in Walnut Creek Ca., a friend worked in their corporate offices, got laid off and has landed on her feet doing contracting for Safeway.
A side note on the illegal resident issue, a friend of ours is a school nurse in S.F. and she claims her students are experiencing a higher rate of domestic violence due to frustrated out of work fathers (consrtruction workers) who are drinking too much.
Not scientific research I know, just heresay. Mike
Small wheel turn by the fire and rod, big wheel turn by the grace of god.
Are they illegal because we dont know who they are, or illegal because they dont pay taxes. think about itIf we had a sale tax instead of income tax that paid everything, social, miltary, health care. we could open up the borders
Replaced Longs here too, put in funny smelling tile carpeting and all new line of store brand products. Service about the same as longs so far.
>>If there were more actions like this taken against employers using illegal workers the jobs outlook in this country would be better.
It's not just the jobs outlook, it's the business outlook in general. Someone else posted something to the effect that "crime is an acceptable business risk" meaning that businesses commit crimes to improve their bottom line, knowing that enforcement is either non-existent or minimal, and that the penalties if any are outweighed by the benefits of cheating. IMO this ought to be treated much more harshly, from the small operators who stand on the steps of the bank on Friday afternoons paying their workers cash, up to the larger operations that are subbing to outfits that cheat as in the story you brought up. It's a problem when crime pays.
I agre with most everything you said, except the part about US citizens doing the work that illegals do. Most Mericuns are too lazy to do the labor jobs, they would rather draw unemployment os sell drugs.
"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
I lived in a European country and if you wanted a job you went to the police station and they checked your papers.
They were trained to detect forgeries.
And if you were qualified for the job and you were not a citizen there was a waiting period in case a citizen wanted it.
Citizens of a country should be supported by it.
Giving jobs or bids to the lowest bidder no matter who they are is stupid.
The government ends up having to support people if they can't find work.
Will Rogers
so how does code enforcement (assuming that's the building officials, right?) shut down a job for illegal workers?
If it's a trade that requires a license.
To ensure that the laws were met I have seen a shutdown of this kind while an audit was being performed.
that's a good point but I'd be surprised if they didn't have 1 gringo that was licensed. That's how my electrician works and I have no doubts about hsi employees legal status. Not everyone needs the license, correct? I've not seen where everyone is required to have the skill license.
Not everyone needs a license, my state (WA) requires a minimum 1 to 1 ratio on plumbing.
An audit would show if the requirements were met.
plumber dude told me they have that here too, one helper per journeyman only.
That's our state law, our union rule is 5 journeyman to one apprentice & one helper (gofer)
John, I don't know the legal basis by which the building inspector shut down the job.
The same works for all problems that seem insurmountable.. Welfare abuse? Report it! Poor safety? report it! Unhealthy food handling? Report it! etc.. Illegal immigrents, report them..
Failure to do so is the real cause of problems not bad laws etc..
If you haven't done something about problems you care about it's your fault!
How do you recognize an illegal immigrant?
Is it the color of their hair? Is it the clothes they wear? Is it the color of their skin?
Have you seen any lurking around? Did you report them? Were they detained when you did?
Please enlighten us.
LOL
I work in sanctuary cities they aren't allowed to report , detain, or even ask about legal status.
So the places you work don't follow US law? Are drugs legal there too? What else is legal where you are that is not in the rest of America, and why?
Law enforcement is required to arrest on a felony, may arrest on misdemeanor, why is that different there?
Edited 11/24/2009 7:24 am ET by catfish
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanctuary_cities
well I could be cute and say exactly.
Since I've made that same argument all the time about undocumented immigrants..
I do know they exist. I also know that a fair number of Russian and Ukrainian illegals have left the area and gone back home since the economy in Russia is booming and ours currently is in the toilet..
I'm curious, do you think they simply turned themselves into immigration and reported their illegal status to get free plane rides home?
But more to the point I do know that there have been steady and repeated raids in areas where illegals are known to flock for employment. I mean it's not a daily occurrence but does happen regularly.. I've got contractor buddies who have been reduced to day labor tell me that at the spots where they go to seek work fewer and fewer Hispanics/ Russians have been showing up due to the occasional raids by immigration..
Canadians on the other hand have seemed less likely to come here to America for work since their country isn't suffering from the same poor economic conditions.
Don't be deliberately dense. You're not that stupid.
Race, appearance, landuage, and behavior are all valid means to recognize an illegal alien. Or, should I say, thery're good clues that justify a closer examination.
It's kind of like deciding which basement to fix. Signs of water damage indicate that there might be a problem ... not that there's anything wrong with 'water' per se. or that you are 'anti-water.' Etc.
While, in theory, it's very possible for a raised in Canada, Oxford grad with a major in US history to be working here illegally, that's not where the problem exists. Sure, it's "possible" for a recently arrived illegal worker to dress like us, speak like us, and know all the cultural stuff we do .... it ain't likely.
OTOH .... let's see here .... an unprotected border, a dysfunctional government, lack of an educational system, different language, distinctive manner of dress ,,, AND an expressed desire to annex parts of our country - Gee, I wonder if THOSE folks might be illegal.
Profiling? Discrimination? No, it's common sense.
Other indications are unusual pay arrangements, etc. For example, undocumented cash payments. The employers' behavior.
Let's look at it like a card game, or any other sport for that matter. What if one side is allowed to cheat. Doesn't that punish the guy who's following the rules? This has the effect, on the job site, of actively discriminating against those who are legal. No wonder it seems like 'they're taking over.'
Cheaper? Balderdash - it's a false 'savings.' Take into consideration all the welfare benefits that we conveniently offer without inquiry into legal status, and that $8 guy is costing us a lot more than the $25 guy .... it's just that we're giving the money to the government, rather than the contractor.
Imaginary costs? Ask the 20+ hospitals, in Los Angeles alone, that have closed since 1990. Bankrupted by non-paying illegals.
Or the guy I mentioned earlier, Luther Mack. Should he have suspected something was going on? The laws, and your logic, would have prevented him from digging deeper - after all, their 'papers' were in order. Who's to say that hispanic guy isn't really named "Kelly O'Brien?" Or that "Marcus Cohen" isn't a traditional Mexican name?
Edited 11/24/2009 9:35 am ET by renosteinke
Actully, I'm not being deliberately dense. If not knowing how to identify an illegal alien makes me dense, then I will admit my guilt...I am dense! I don't have any idea of how to identify an illegal alien except to examine their documents. Do I have a right to ask ANYONE for their "documents"? Can I see yours? If I approached you in the mall and demanded to see your citizenship papers, would you produce them for me? Should we all staple our birth certificates to our foreheads?I did ask the question though...How do I identify an illegal alien and you didn't answer. I'm thinking you don't know either. I hope you don't get offended when you follow your "dense" logic and then apply it to yourself.
I apologize ... I thought I was pretty clear when I stated that race, accent, language skills, and manner of dress can be indications that further investigation is justified. I also mentioned the behavior of the individual, as well as that of his employer.
When someone's story doesn't compute. do as you would with and scammer: send him on his way. You're not rejecting him because he's a Mexican; you're rejecting him because you don't believe him. If you've been snookered, then it's time to have the authorities verify his claims.
An employer certainly has a duty to verify that the name, SSN, and DOB belong together - but that's just a start.
Or ... to put it another way .... those who employ illegals certainly have no trouble identifying any "legals" who try to infiltrate their ranks!
As inferred with my name examples, papers themselves are worthless.
It's a funny thing; I go apply for a job, I get an endless array of questions as to where I've been, what I did, and how I got here. Illegals get a simple 'get to work' and it's done. Start talking to them, and it's amazing how quickly things become vague.
I contrast the behavior of the illegals with the legal immigrants - there is a world of difference in their responses. Legal immigrants will quite enthusiastically tell you of their journey, of the hurdles they overcame, of their enthusiasm for America. They have absolutely no trouble explaining why they came and how they got here. They invariably have their citizenship decree on prominent display.
Do we all need to prove we belong here? In Missouri, we do. I don't think it's improper at all to ask for a birth certificate. Or, for that matter, to question things when they stop adding up.
I think you might go back and look at who my response was. It was to Frenchy. He said that if I care about a problem, I have a responsibility to investigate and report. I'm not an employer, so, exactly who should I be asking for their birth certificates? Can I see yours?
Sure, come on by :D
Sorry for the intrusion; I didn't realize there was a private conversation taking place. I'll try not to let it happen again.
It wasn't private. Frenchy tells me we have a duty to report illegal aliens. I'm asking how do I know them? You haven't given me anything other than I should look at their birth certs but I don't have the authority. Does anyone? Where is the line drawn?
I think the only rational / effective way is for the employer to have a responsibility to investigate people being hired. There must, of course, be some leeway for employers who have been duped, but you can't expect to turn every citizen into a snitch, reporting anyone with dark skin or a turban as a suspected 'illegal' or 'terrorist'.
frenchy's idea that somehow everyone needs to turn in 'illegals' if they care about the issue is crazy; you can't call the cops on someone because he's got dark skin and an accent. At least I hope not.
Please Note Blue understands that I'm not suggesting that you base your reporting on color or character or anything like that.
If you have knowledge that someone illegal is working it's your responsiblity to report them.. I understand perfectly that simply by looking hispanic is no reason to report a person.. heck Blue knows that many 5th or tenth generation Americans have Hispanic features even some American Indians (sorry, Native Americans) can look foriegn..
Simply that you report those who you have knowledge that they are illegal.
Around here we used to have a major issue with Russians and Irish working illegally. Yes Irish! they would come over here on a vacation visa and stay for years sending money back to Ireland.. that pretty much ended when The Irish economy started to recover and good employment was to be found in Ireland..
Same with Russian illegals. Russian Trawlers used to pull into unguarded American ports discharge 3/4 of their crew and have them met on the docks by family and friends who would wisk them away before anybody saw anything.. Canadians would come down and work at the Polaris plant and the Pella window plant and return home on the weekends.. Do you know how hard it is to find an Illegal Canadian?
All three problems have disappeared because the poor economy here and good economy back home..
I have reported a known illegal. We believed that he was a gold digger (from Germany) and was taking advantage of one of our friends. No one did anything. Immigration didn't care even though we provided all the details they needed to deport him. Five years later, he applied for some type of work card and got one. Two weeks after that, a swat team arrived at his house at midnight. When our friend protested and demanded a search warrant, they laughed and said they were "homeland security". They were armed with automatic weapons. They loaded him a plane to Germany the next day. They wouldn't tell our friend where he was or where he was going. She booked a flight the next day: the only one to Germany. He was on it. Did I do my duty? Why did they need to surround the house with a swat team for a guy that was reported five years earlier?
maybe he was a russian spy, here to find out highly secure secerets, the recipe for pecan pie
The scary part is that they have the right to enter people's houses without a search warrant under the guise of homeland security.
just for the recipe of pecan pie?
I know what you are saying John. They could have called me and I'd have faxed it over. I want everyone to enjoy the benefits of a pecan pie.
That's exactly the type of situation I was suggesting..
If you did you duty and others failed you can sleep well at night knowing you did what you could..
All that is required for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing
Frenchy, I wouldn't do it again. I don't want the jackboots to be kicking in anyone's doors.
I believe I understand what you are saying..
Let me ask you a question to see how fully developed your sense of duty is..
At what point whould you report someone..
For spitting on a sidewalk?
for a traffic violation?
for Drunk driving?
for being here illegally?
for working here illegally?
For selling drugs?
for Murder?
For terrorism? (please note I tried to give genaric examples starting from mild and goinfg to wild..) Not trying to trick you or anything.. I know that you'd find my decison someplace towards the middle.
The bigger danger is the loss of our rights...not the illegals.
This thread could have been interesting but IMO has now degenerated because a few prolific posters have decided to carry on ad nauseum. While the discussion is still marginally related to the OP, the amount posted far exceeds its own value and everyone else seems to have left. Too bad....
Typical when our frenchman gets involved!>G<
frenchy's idea that somehow everyone needs to turn in 'illegals' if they care about the issue is crazy; you can't call the cops on someone because he's got dark skin and an accent. At least I hope not."That stuff only goes on in here.
I understand what Frenchy was trying to say, but that's not the message he was putting across. He made it sound like he was encouraging witch hunts based on nothing, but that's not what he was trying to say.
Need Piffin's translator. Where'd I leave that?
Did I ever mention skin color?
Come on, Ever? Of course not!
The only way to know if that Russian, Canadian, Irish, Hispanic, Asian, or Polish guy is here illegally is if somehow you find out..
Frankly I don't care so much about the worker as much as the boss. If he has a record of exploiting immigrents that will quickly come out..
The only way to know if that Russian, Canadian, Irish, Hispanic, Asian, or Polish guy is here illegally is if somehow you find out.
Frenchy,
Why do you insist on talking about Russian and Irish illegals? As I pointed out months ago here http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=115535.96 , around 81% of illegal aliens in the US are New World Hispanics (57% are from Mexico). All European and Canadian illegals account for about 6%.
Edited 11/25/2009 11:15 am ET by Mudslinger
How can those numbers be correct? I mean do all the illegals Hold up their hand and you count them? Go door to door and ask if they are here legally or not?
Let me ask you one question.. If you were working here illegally would you report yourself to a government agency?
Besides that the US spends about 9 billion dollars doing the census and the numbers they come up with doing door to door counts is woefully far off.. massively undercounting inner city populations and massively over counting white suburban housholds.. That's according to the US census Beareu.
Let me get this straight...the US Census bureau counts the numbers wrong and knows it....and then does it again like that ten years later? I like it! I hope they have a hand in taking over your health care.
Yes they know sampling would be faster and much cheaper but congress refuses (mainly the republicans) to allow them to use sampling numbers instead..
Please ask me more about this subject.
How can those numbers be correct? I mean do all the illegals Hold up their hand and you count them? Go door to door and ask if they are here legally or not? ...
Besides that the US spends about 9 billion dollars doing the census and the numbers they come up with doing door to door counts is woefully far off.. massively undercounting inner city populations and massively over counting white suburban housholds.. That's according to the US census Beareu.
Here we go again Frenchy. Upon what criteria would you like this conversation to procede? If the census numbers aren't good enough for you, what is? Are we supposed to base this discussion on Frenchy's observations from Minnesota?
Great point.. let's see that Mexican looking fellow who speaks spanish might be illegal or he might be a 10th generation American.. Or he might be a native american.. (family here before us whites were)
Jim's in Austin, his crews probably only have one citizen for 5 illegals. That guy gets the check and pays everyone else tax-free.
Actually, there is a very long history of Mexicans living here in Austin...after all, they were here BEFORE white Europeans discovered this place. The cultures are very much integrated too. There is no stigma attached to a "mixed" marriage. And, don't think that the Hispanics are only doing menial labor. They are principals, mayors, police officers, doctors, etc. So, when I ask "how do I know?", I'm not being facetious. If I'm not allowed to ask Obama.....
Those were Indians in Austin before white Europeans. Mexicans didn't exist until the Spainairds inter-bred with the Indians. And yes, we all took Texas History in the 7th grade.
edit: don't let Tom know I grew up in Texas
Edited 11/24/2009 11:02 am ET by catfish
Edited 11/24/2009 11:03 am ET by catfish
Your missing the point. I wasn't trying to give a history lesson.The point is: many/most/alot of Hispanics here are legal. They are citizens. They look exactly like the illegals.How do I tell the difference?
Going after the immigrent is like telling the tide to turn back.. go after the employers with stiff fines and jail time and none will risk hiring less than well documented employees.
Who will have the most impact? some poor SOB who dragged his butt across the desert to find work or a contractor who cuts costs by hiring a hundred Illegals?
As a side note. the requiremnt that the fed posts on verifying legal status is pretty poor when it comes to the following the bare minimum back ground check. If a company does a higher quality level check, they will find more illegal workes.
This happens where my wife works. They hire through a staffing company for the 1st 90+ days. the back ground check that the staffing company uses is legal within the requirements of the law.
When they are finally hired, my wife does her own background check and she usually finds about 15% of these people are not allowed to working in the country and they have false documents.
Let are immediately let go and then the process starts all over again and the new ones need to be trained.
just recently, she was hiring 2 workers form 2 different staffing comanies and they both were using the same name, birthdate, and SS#
So, the sub for CVS could have done correct highering practices, just not the best quality of highering practices.
Its actually very simple to set up a check for employers to verify ids. Arizona did it and they flooded out of there and headed into border states. This entire situation could be cleaned up in less than a month.
Like drunk driving, they don't want it cleared up. fill in your own preference for "they"
Heres another...just for fun.I was listening to a talk radio show about the guys begging on the street corner. A cop called in and said he had arrested one particular guy half a dozen times. He had outstanding felony warrants from another state but they refused to extradite him. THE OTHER STATE IS GLAD THAT HES STUCK HERE IN AUSTIN lol!