Replies

1. 
   BobKovacs | Sep 17, 2003 02:38am | #1

   DO NOT use a rate per SF!!!!!   You need to determine what the total number of man-days will be for the scope of your work, and price accordingly.  if you haven't done this type of work before (log kits), you'd better make sure you have enough padding to cover your unfamiliarity with the product.  If you can't figure out the time required, provide an hourly rate, and bill against that.

   Be sure to include language in your proposal that you won't be responsible for any incorrect materials, damaged goods, missing pieces, etc.  And, you should be paid for any time lost waiting for such situations to be rectified.

   Bob

2. 
   JeffBuck | Sep 17, 2003 02:56am | #2

   how would you figure this job if U were supplying all materials?

   I do "labor only" all the time......it's how I sub most of my work .....

   my techinical method ...which I've described before here ...is called the

   "that'll take about a" method....

   Like ....."that'll take about a day .....that'll take 2 days .....that over there'll take about 2 and a half...and we all know there's no such thing as a half day...so we'll call it 3 ....."

   Add that up and it's six days.......labor only ...and only if all materials are there the day BEFORE i start! Now of this ...Just get started and we'll have the rest delivered.

   I gotta see 2 things on a labor only bid....the start check and all the stuff I need!

   Then I'll unpack the van.

   Jeff

   simple.

   Buck Construction   Pittsburgh,PA

    Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite                  

3. 
   Jencar | Sep 17, 2003 03:07am | #3

   Hourly rate that you feel comfortable with.

   Jen

1. 
   rebuilder | Sep 17, 2003 04:19am | #5

   Thanks everybody. I've been using Jeff's method, but there is some new stuff for me on this project. I don't want to lose my a$$, but want my bid to be competitive.

1. 
   Schelling | Sep 17, 2003 05:25am | #6

   Jeff's method is really the only way to go unless you have done a few of these projects. I'm sure you understand the method's pitfalls.

   We have built three log kits from two different companies. Try to get as much information about the kit before you price it out. The quality of the plans and accompanying literature varies from company to company. Make sure you allow a couple of days extra time to figure out any problems. If you understand the details of the kit, it is not too much different from a regular house. Good luck.

2. 
   goldhiller | Sep 17, 2003 05:28am | #7

   "I don't want to lose my a$$, but want my bid to be competitive."

   Then in this case I'd advise that you know/discover, by whatever means available, the qualifications and experience level of those you're bidding against. Otherwise, you may find yourself bidding against a number of other 1st timers who are also misjudging the time involved. In that case, it would be likely that any and all of you get burned no matter who "wins" the bid.

   Be careful if/when you find yourself being "desperate" to win a bidding contest. There's many ways to lose when you win one of these, particularly if you insist on a quality result you can be proud of and will stand behind and the others.............well, enough said.

   Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.

3. 
   xMikeSmith | Sep 17, 2003 05:33am | #8

   ccr... you want your bid to be competitive compared to whom ?

   to someone else who builds log kits, labor only ?

    your are trying to be competive against a non-existing entity.. stop  already..

    build the job in your head , on paper.. and don't be an optimist....be a damn pessimist...

    cover all your time, and add a generous contingency, then add your profit on top of that... that's your bid...

    competitive ?Mike Smith   Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

4. 
   MarkMc | Sep 17, 2003 03:58am | #4

   And no warranty on anything they supply..........you break it, they replace it, along with your time. Write this agreement well.

5. 
   CloudHidden | Sep 17, 2003 05:39am | #9

   >a customer that wants to supply all materials

   Make sure you allow for materials not being present when you need them. And you'll need to spend extra time to specify what materials need to be present when. Account for that time. Need more widgets? It might halt your progress to not have them, while client might not be able to buy them till they're on their way home from the office that night. How much down time is likely due to materials not being ready?--plan for it.

1. 
   rebuilder | Sep 17, 2003 07:54am | #10

   Thanks to all. "Desperate", I'm not sure how that word became involved here, but it doesn't fit. I told 'em up front that my bid would not be the lowest, because I don't cut corners, especially if it's new to me. Anyway, the bid is done, we'll see. Thanks for all advice.

1. 
   Framer | Sep 17, 2003 02:00pm | #11

   As a Framing subcontractor I do alot of labor jobs only. Builder or GC I give them the material list. It saves alot of headaches.

   The few times over the years I let a Builder or GC do the list they never got it right or they let the lumber yard do the list, they never got it right.

   They're not framing the house or addition I am and I do the material list as I start the framing from the sills and up and that's how the lumber yard gets my material list. First floor, second floor, roof etc......

   My list covers everything that these guys don't allow for such as, nailers, blocking, fire blocks, waste, bracing, doubles for openings, doubles for ceiling joist outriggers for hip roofs, the list goes on.

   My advice is to DO YOUR OWN MATERIAL LIST!

   Yeh, you can say if the material isn't there you'll back charge them but who are you kidding, your chopping your nose off to spite your face. Why waste time on the job standing around because the Builder, GC or Homeowner didn't get your materials there on time or shorted you because they figured exact amount of studs for the walls and deducted for window openings. It's nothing but a pain in the A$$.

   Joe Carola

   Edited 9/17/2003 7:08:52 AM ET by Framer

1. 
   toast953 | Sep 18, 2003 08:45am | #16

   So Framer, are you telling me that you get your pressure treated bottom plate, on the top side of the pile, and not the bottom?? You must be living right. Jim J

2. 
   bobl | Sep 17, 2003 02:49pm | #12

   who's supplying the "heavy equipment"

   cranes etc?bobl          Volo Non Voleo

1. 
   rebuilder | Sep 18, 2003 01:07am | #13

   My bid was labor only. No rentals, the HO is paying for all that. Good question, it was my first as well.

3. 
   goldhiller | Sep 18, 2003 06:42am | #15

   I'm sorry. That was me. Bad choice of words. Anxious would have been better, I guess. No offense intended.

   Since I can't see your frame of mind from here, just thought to remind you that the wrong frame of mind, even if only temporary, can get you into trouble in a hurry, particularly in a 1st time situation. It happened to me once......a long, long, long time ago. <g>.

   Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.

6. 
   FrankB89 | Sep 18, 2003 06:28am | #14

   I'm currently building a kit log home...Kuhn's Bros....

   Recently finished the foundation and just started the framing.  The kit is a "no shop" and seems to be pretty well put together, but these kits are put together with the assumption that the HO is the builder.

   I'm in a class 3 seismic zone and a 100 mph + wind area (for code purposes)....extra engineering and hardware involved.

   I screw the subfloor (kit provides for hand nailing). I use guns for framing (hand nailing assumed again).

   We live in a winter-damp marine climate...the kit comes from Pa. and a different climate...I'm doing some extra weatherization between the rim and the skirt boards where none is specified or provided.

   I may encounter other issues as the building goes up.

   While I'm not criticizing the components and spec's provided by the supplier, local conditions may require some extra expense.

   Just so the HO isn't blindsided with the extra expense that may be necessary.

    

7. 
   roofdoc | Sep 18, 2003 02:49pm | #17

   If in the past you have apllied your markup to labor and materails you will find that you a little light on the profit side not having the materails to pickup some of your overhead.I would also agree with some of the others a charge for wiating if the right materail is not there,jsut did one that was a 35 mile ride one way happen one than once,you know I'll be there with the stuff you  and the guy eirther shows up way to late or not at all