After working alone for the past 10 months I’m looking at needing help for a project too big for one to do solo (Project for Spring thread)
I’ve recently talked with the folks at Labor Ready to find out about short term help. I like working alone quite a lot and would like to go back to that after this larger project is completed- so don’t feel right about hiring several workers only to lay off after 4 months.
Has anyone had any involvement with Labor Ready either good or bad? Perhaps you have other suggestions as well?
Thanks in advance for any help you’re able to give.
Walter
Replies
labor ready, or the like, people here are known as rent a bums or rent a drunks and generally not used for anything not important..
run an ad in the paper and state yur case...
it may work out well...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Or put a post in the help wanted section..............
On a hill by the harbour
that may work too...Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Thats what I was afraid was going to be the response by most but I want to hear both sides. If there are two that is.
Thanks WAlter
used them in several states..
all seem to be about the same...
direct supervision required...
watch yur stuff...
don't ask for much...Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
I have great luck with Labor Ready & I'm Union------ uh er let me re-phrase that.
Labor ready's head office is right down the street from me their main IT guy just happens to be my taper for side jobs.
He's a former taper that I used to work with alot, then he took that Microsoft system engineer class now he's just another internet junkie that gets paid to look at porn-----lol.
BTW I get all my pc's from labor ready for free when they upgrade theirs."For instance, Hillary Clinton said in a recent visit that ethanol is 'a perfect example' of how we can wean ourselves from foreign oil. Of course, she has voted against measures promoting ethanol production not once, not twice, but 17 times during her six years in the Senate." The Federalist Patriot
For the work you do I probably wouldn't consider a temp service. Besides, they get laid off after you send them back, so there isn't much difference. Advertise for employees and give them a short-term job. Depending on the state system they might be able to ding you for unemployment afterwards, but in most places they have to try to find a job before they can collect.
David,
Thanks for responding. I thought for the removal process of this large job it might work- leaving me to relay and do the metal work.
I might be able to get some other friends who have their own gigs to assist.
Walter
We use Labor Ready on occasion, mostly for demo. Some times you have to go thru a few guys before you find the right ones. But we have found some very willing to do the work. Very rarely will you find someone who has the skills to do more than demo or other grunt work and usually they need supervised all day.
Here we cannot use them for roof work. I'm not sure if that's because we don't pay a higher rate so they can or if they aren't allowed to, period.
Barry,
Here they will send men out for roofing help, they carry all the burden for $26.
I know what most of you guys are saying that the caliber of men will be low so it likely won't be possible for much of this job.
Thanks for responding Walter
walter,
It has been probably 10 years since I have used a Labor service-----but I used to use them almost every week.
2 kinds
a) the entirely un-productive( i won't call them worthless-- they ARe human beings--they just come with more personal baggage than I care to deal with)
b) suprisingly productive-----if assigned the right tasks.
Only 3 or 4 come to mind as falling in the "b" classification as productive.----one was a young 20 year old man who showed up here one day to " be near the ministry"( Rev. Rex. Humbard0--one of the local televangelists-------- the young man came with a pickup truck and basic tools and was an eager helper-------------------even better than him was Floyd----who was a guy in his late 50's who worked diligently and productively at tear-off--clean up, folding tarps etc.. I ALWAYS requested Floyd------he was always pleasant to work with----but he was NEVER available on 2 consecutive days-----eventually he was NEVEr available----and I gave up on the whole Temp. labor attempt.
since----like you------- I prefer to work solo------------------ I would almost certainley make arrangements with one of two subcontractors I know----and arrange for help tearing off and drying in----and then handle the installation myself.
Ideally tearing off and drying in the entire structure-----but more realistically doing it area by area.--- one of my subs is vastly better suited to this--and would by far be my preferred route---but availability if the job was broken into stages--might require using BOTH subs.
frankly--If I wasn't going to be so busy myself---- I would be happy to come up and work a while for free---just for the education.
Best wishes, Stephen
Stephen,
Thanks for the good response.
I, like you enjoy the freedom and financial rewards of working alone,but obviously this project couldn't be done in a reasonable time frame by working alone.
You brought up in the initial thread as to how to staff this job and it's still not totally clear to me how to proceed. I don't want to hire some folks only to lay them off 4 months later- thats not being fair with them. The temp situation would be ideal if several of your " Floyds" were able to be hired this way.
Some of the guys who have worked for me and gone on their own is still a possability too.
I wouldn't dream of letting you work for free-but it would be enjoyable to work together at some point.
Best regards, Walter Are you above zero yet?
At 9 I'm heading to Bangor to set up for another chimney reflash.
>> At 9 I'm heading to Bangor to set up for another chimney reflash.
Not to hijack, but can you do any mortar work in these cold temps? Any tips? Or you just use sealants. thanks.
Sharp,
No mortar work involved on this one. The chimney was re-topped a few years ago using new lead as counterflashings, which is still intact and in fine shape.
The problem area is the deteriorated old galvanized roof flashings that are integral with the slate roof. These must be removed by first removing slate from all sides of the chimney- remaking the flashings from lead coated copper, then reslating this area.
Chickened out though-got started but the wind chills were not pleasant.
Walter
thank you Walter.
Sharp,
Heres one similar I did last week. Lead was older but still usable.
Walter
http://share.shutterfly.com/action/welcome?sid=8cbsmrhqzy4
Edited 2/5/2007 3:12 pm ET by theslateman
Thanks for the pics. I guess I was thinking about the part where you let the flashing in the brick joint and need to mortar that. In your pics, that part was still original.
I had to reset the flashing for a friend client, only 2 years old when his roof was redone. lousy work. I had to clean these joint and redo them. Did it mid january, last warm day we had (mid 50's). A day or so later it dipped into freezing temps, too late for mortar/masonry work.
Sharp, Are there step flashings in with the roof shingles or is that flared bottom of lead supposed to protect the sheathing and inside?
Walter
The step flashings are in with the asphalt shingles, one per 3 courses. Not sure of the detailing behind that. Friend/client hasn't reported any leaks though.
" I don't want to hire some folks only to lay them off 4 months later- thats not being fair with them. "Why not?Now what is not fair is hiring them with the expectation that there are other jobs.What is unfair about say "people wanted for roofing job. Job will last about 4 months"..
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Bill,
I certainly wouldn't mislead them-but only using them for the best four months of the season-then putting them back out to look elsewhere seems not quite right to me.
Walter
only using them for the best four months of the season-then putting them back out to look elsewhere seems not quite right to me.
Speaking as an employee, that's foolish. My personal 'best' as an employee, was getting RIFfed due to job completion three times in 1 day. That means I found two other jobs/bosses to work for in 1/2 day.
The only reason a good construction man isn't working is because he doesn't want to. If he's not a good worker, you're going to fire him anyway, so, what's the difference?SamT
Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either. [Einstein] Tks, BossHogg.
I no longer find the poor quality of temps worth the trouble and simply won't use them from Labor Ready and the likes.
In the past we've had great luck posting at local colleges. It's surprising how many guys with construction experience are in school and could use some extra beer money with part time work.
Then there was a college football player who worked for another outfit for $7.50/hr. hand shoveling a basement. He loved working his beach muscles and at 6' 240 there was a lot of dirt flying. We were going to hire him away for significantly more money but football practice started.
In Colorado it was common for GC's to post for temp help at colleges and pay them as subs. In fact, the way they were used doesn't seem to violate the IRS definition. One person would be hired to do one thing (dig ditch, sand boards, etc.) and once it was completed they would be let go. This ment a constant stream of new faces for the temp jobs, who generally worked totally separate from the carpenters.
I enjoyed hiring cute college gals for painting jobs...but that's more of a bust scholarship and another story...
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
I'm not so sure I'd want the caliber of guys who normally go to Labor Ready for work doing the kind of slate repairs you've got lined up. They're usually good for ditch digging, demo where nothing has to get salvaged, or cleanup. On ONE occasion we found a guy who was a decent drywall patch guy/texturer, but that was by far the exception to the rule.
Bob
Bob,
Thanks for taking time to help. That was my gut feeling when I posted this question that the skill level would be really low and not worth having them on hand.
I gave up my comp policy last Spring when I had a MIS hip replacement and lost my excellent worker then. Would like to return to solo duty after this big job.
Walter
If one of your concerns is the w/c policy, here on the left coast I have found "employee leasing companies" who will act as the employer and handle the w/c, payroll, etc. I select from the open marketplace, who I want to work for me and how much I want to pay, then send them to the leasing company who hires them and pays, even though they work for me. Last time I did this, I paid about 15% over full payroll burden, due each week. It worked great for me, great for the employees and I would do it again. No w/c, insurance or payroll hassles. You might need to shop around for lowest leasing company markup to you.
I'm not sure that situation exists here, but it sounds desirable. You get to choose people who might have a larger skill set, but don't need to make a long term employment commitment to them. Thanks, Walter
Walter,
it is EXACTLY zero here this morning----and the whole week will be around that temp.
at this point it will be close to march I suppose---before I can resume my little slate project, LOL
how about running an adv. in FHB-------- explain the project and duration-------people might pay YOU to come and learn for 4 months----plus you could get a great article out of it-------------------------
Stephen.
Stephen,
Thats an excellent idea,but I'm not quite sure I could ask people to pay me to work on this project. I know there are probably folks that would like to learn an old trade,but finding them might be problematical.
How did you start with writing articles- by first submitting an outline or did the Editors approach you.
I bailed out this morning after a partial set up. Wind out of the NW at 15 to 20 made 3 degrees seem unappealing. The wind will let up for Wednesday.
Walter
Walter,
A former editor( David Ericson) approached me based on my loud mouthed and opinionated behavior here on Breaktime----------and so I wrote the first one. There is one coming out about this June---that was more or less written right after the first article( oh, maybe 5 years ago). For a variety of reasons-- THAT article gathered dust for a while---------- while a couple of others were developed and published ahead of it.
You really should write one-----It's great subject matter---you have an extraordinary project coming up----perfect. Talk to Dan Morrison at FHB-----they are always looking for writers( I have pestered Grant to write one on copper roofing a number of times)
The articles don't pay all that well-----but I have always had a lot of fun with them-----I would like to do several more---either with FHB--or maybe Old House Journal. I am sure you would be doing a lot of people quite a service if you DID write one-------------------------
Really best wishes,
Stephen
Stephen,
Thanks very much for the reply.
Does the Article per se slow down the actual production on the job at hand? Do you have to wait for them to shoot photos at some junctures while you could be making production?
Sorry for all the questions--- but it sounds like a doable thing if timing were right. I wouldn't think the pay would be your's or any authors primary concern if you felt it was furthering the knowledge to the readership.
I had actually e-mailed Justin quite some time ago about doing an article on snow retention for steep roofs--- but he never responded.
Thanks for your help.
Best regards, Walter
walter----speaking as accurately as possible---------- it will depend on the specific editor involved.
the first Editor, David Ericson----came from an academic background---- and I thought did a fantastic job turning my drivel into something readable.--On the job site however---he slowed me up quite a bit.
the current guy--dan morrison----is fantastic---- he doesn't slow me down in any appreciable way on the job site----- and I am fairley content with the way he shapes the article.--I would recommend Dan Morrison highly---because he comes from a trade background----and clearly understands that once we tear -off that roof----we don't have a lot of time to stand around and pose for pictures. He is bright, curious, has a great sense of humor, doesn't P.O. the customer or the rest of the crew----and in general is a guy I consider it a privilege to have met and worked with.
whoever you get----------- keep in mind--they take a LOT of pictures---hundreds in fact for each article---although only a few get used.
Best wishes,
Stephen
Stephen,
Thats kind of what I had gathered from some other threads here long ago- was that the Editors control the content, might not be the way you or I would envision dealing with said topic.
Sounds kind of interesting, but a sour taste like Grant has had makes you wonder.
Thanks for all the helpful info.
I;ve enjoyed reading what you and Stan have had to say in Slowdown --- it's gotten me to think more about what you said here yesterday too!!!
Huge wind chills today too. Walter
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I have pestered Grant to write one on copper roofing a number of times.Stephen - I was all set to do a flashing article when Engle left FHB. I was starting to get a bad taste in my mouth due to numerous false starts and a lack of direction as to what size and type of article they wanted, though. It finally came down to "we'll come down and take some pics and basically write the article for you". Everything seemed wishy-washy on their end and being a first timer, I was unsure how to proceed.http://logancustomcopper.com
http://grantlogan.net/
It's like the whole world's walking pretty and you can't find no room to move. - the Boss
I married my cousin in Arkansas - I married two more when I got to Utah. - the Gourds
Grant-----no doubt about it------ "they" definitely put their stamp on the article, "you" do not have complete controll-----and they will shape it to fit their goal.
but---all in all------pictures first i probably easier.
Assuming you and the editor have a good idea what you are going to do------------
it would be much easier to take the pictures and then write around the available pictures
then to write the article---and then try to produce pictures to fit.
that was part of the problem with the article coming in June-------article pretty much written years ago-----waiting for the right house to photo for our purposes------------------------
Stephen
>>>>>>>>it would be much easier to take the pictures and then write around the available picturesYeah, that was my thinking, too. It just never materialized. Spent more time talking about it than it was worth, IMHO.http://logancustomcopper.com
http://grantlogan.net/
It's like the whole world's walking pretty and you can't find no room to move. - the Boss
I married my cousin in Arkansas - I married two more when I got to Utah. - the Gourds
Never used them, but have worked for them briefly, an outfit called CPL. They are pretty much a national supplier of temporary, primarily skilled, labor. They had a very thorough vetting process. As a carp I had to pass safety and construction knowledge tests and pass a drug test.
Don't know what they charge their employees out at but in NC I was being paid over $16.oo/hr., and if I had signed up with them in CT would have made over $20.oo/hr. They provide all the coverage for their employees: w/c, holiday pay, etc..
I was comfortable working for them. I believe there is a 2 hour minimum if work is cancelled due to weather without prior notification. You can ask that someone not be sent back if he doesn't work out.
Not cheap - but having to constantly watch over untrained individuals, and, worst case scenario - facing w/c toubles - they're likely worth a try.
Let's not confuse the issue with facts!
Gdcarpenter,
As I responded a few minutes ago to another poster $26 for a man with no other overhead as far as taxes,comp, etc. for a short term job situation.
Sounds real good if you just look at that aspect- but if that someone isn't hardly skilled and you have to provide all hand tools to make them able to work it sounds less desirable.
Thanks for the response. Walter
We used a hiring service here at the truss plant last summer. They were hoping that it would cut down on the number of guys we got who were just trying to scam the workman's comp system.We had to hire 10-12 guys to find ONE that would stay. Many of the guys showed up for one day, then never called or came back again.Six months later, I don't think we have a single one of them left.
Not to speak ill of another requires only your silence.
Labor ready in my area has unskilled people for $17 per hour, some of which have worked out well for me and some of which have cost me more in surpervisory burden than they were worth in work.
They also have an office that specializes in skilled people for $24, IIRC. I got a competent carpenter that way and another time a guy who said he was a carpenter, but who quickly demonstrated why he was not otherwise employed.
While Labor Ready covers their workman's comp, if one of their guys falls off a roof you're still going to lose the day to paperwork and such, so the unskilled route might not be helpful.
For a lengthy job, you might be able to try out their skilled guys and winnow out the nogoodniks during the first few days.
Bruce,
I wasn't offered any trained people at this location.
The comp rate is high in Me. so even laborers have a sizeable burden- although probably not more than if you hired them outright.
Walter
We have used temp pools quite often Be it Labor Ready,CLP or manpower.
If you don't like the guy send him packing with in 3 hrs. No Charge!!
If you tell them the caliber of help you need they send it.
we've even bought out some of the guys contracts and put them on full time
Steven,
I would like to think they might have semi skilled help available, but with building going well here I'm not too sure what the pool might consist of. Thanks, Walter
Has anyone had any involvement with Labor Ready either good or bad?
Yes.
At worst, you get sent a group of people who require constant supervision. At best, you get some guys who really want to do a good job, but have varying amounts of skills.
Worst of it though, is the "scam" aspect of the pay. LR (or the like) bills you $12/hr, and pays the laborer $8-something. Ok, so LR deserves to make enough to cover their payroll costs, insurance, etc. However, it gets into a self-defeating curve. The laborer knows they are getting 'shorted" on the deal (if not always "why"). That, then leads them to approach you with cash offers "off books." LR then "loses" an employee, which keeps their costs up, so they charge more, yada yada yada . . .
I usually can't come up with a reason to use labor that way--but, that may just be me.
Slateman,
I am sure you have your answer from all of these posts but. I have used Labor Ready before. I would not use them again. First off, The rate was pretty high. Something like $15.00/hr. Second, the guys they sent were bums. They all wanted to take a break every 10 minutes, and you still have to pay the company. Your best bet to get unskilled or skilled labor is to go to an area in your town populated by spanish folks, like an apartment complex, and ask if anyone wants to work. You will find takers. They will work hard, never complain, and know a lot of other workers in the industry. Just my two cents.
Jon