I had a question from a customer this morning regarding access to a loft. It’s in the master BR about 8.5′ up, above the bathroom. The loft is around 7’x13′. Currently, she has a glorified ladder going up to the loft area and instead she would like to have something that would allow the loft to be more readily accessible. She would like the incline to be less steep and the stairs wider.
Here’s my questions…
At what point does a ladder become a set of stairs? If it is considered a stair, what do I have to do for handrails? Do I have to have light switches on top and bottom?
I would appreciate input on both the pure code definition and the practical side if anyone thinks it differs.
thanks,
Joe
Replies
Try finding ( I can't at the moment) submarine stairs..a cross betwix the ladder and stupidly obnoxious stairs. I have a plan, for some that are unique in the fact that they are alternating treads, prolly not a good idea for sale to a client..
With that said, YES, add a box or two at the top and bottom of said stairs..I'd run a 3 wire pull for a light circut accessable from each starting newel area..
Of course. keep in mind handi cap access, proper codes, and frivolity..nuthing like a rope light to accent the obvious trip hazzards that present them selves like soft pillowy mushrooms in a pasture, full of concrete.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Its MINE, I'll wash it as fast as I want"
What do you mean by "alternating treads"?
alternating treads
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Thanks. I was having trouble picturing it.
close but no cigar..remove the center stringer, you have a Nautilus class con . Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Its MINE, I'll wash it as fast as I want"
Foot sole traffic is specific, lead with the right and follow with cadancey..a sub from the LA class and likely later, have an extreme steep con. That Con was reached by alternating foot prints on the "treads" as you ascended or decended the ships .
Picture in yer mind a a stringer on both sides, a tread on first right step, up one rise, left step, repeat as needed in event of fire...imagine a ball teeetering on each rise. and "walking" Left nd right on each tread. The treds are not a single span, just foot holds.
Clear as mud? Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Its MINE, I'll wash it as fast as I want"
The treds are not a single span, just foot holds
And, back to DanH's comment, the side stringer probably ought to be much higher than the center, to allow a grasping, "rail," surface to assist in both ascent and descent.
Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
From a pure code point of view, you're best direction is to ask the local enforcement folks. In general, any access to a sleeping area had best be a true stair somewhere close to 7/11 rise/run. Sounds like your loft is still a loft.
The alternating tread idea will be shot down by all but the most progressive codes. I considered it for an attic remodel and decided against it as I had visions of youngsters falling quite easily.
The best bet is to figure out how to put in a real staircase (with real rails) there should the homeowner be considering more than just storage use of the loft. I'm hoping of course, that the loft floor was framed for the job as well.
At what point does a ladder become a set of stairs?
Shortest answer is whenever the AHJ says so.
Typically the rise is limited to somewhere between 6" and 8" per riser, some of which goes back to the 16" "rule" for stairs. That the riser tread proportion comes by setting the rise and subtracting the rise from the rule dimension. So, for a 7" rise, you get an 11" tread, etc.
If it is considered a stair
If the AHJ says it's a stair, then all of the rules the AHJ applies to stairs are applicable. Many of the things that are required for stairs, like multi-way switches, railings, etc., are "ought to be" items for ladders as well--but that's a personal opinion.
Somewhere else I think someone had a formula more like twice rise plus run equals some constant, but the basic point is good: There's no clear cutoff between ladder and stair -- you just decrease rise as you increase run. Get the proportions right and a near-vertical ladder is just as "natural" (going up) as a low-sloped stair (though obviously the stair is easier for someone with a physical infirmity to handle, and going down is another matter entirely).And there's probably a similar rule for handrail placement, and at some point the "stringer" becomes the right height for the handrail.As a practical (but not code) matter, coming down is probably the test that divides ladder and stair: When one starts wanting to descend backward the stair has turned into a ladder.
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and at some point the "stringer" becomes the right height for the handrail
Having some experience at sea with "ladders," it can be startling to appreciate how steep an incline is still "better" with a handrail. But, that's most applicable to fixed ladders (and those of us repeatedly trained to not use rungs as handgrips--an entirely different, long story <g>).
Now, I personally think that there might ought to be more specialty info on things like high-angle stairs, offset tread stairs and the like. The experience has to exist, we see the examples--I just lament that the learning-curve info is not there to go with it.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Ever think about a prefab spiral staircase? Lofts are perfect for one, and thay don't take much more space than a ladder .
Though spiral stairs can be a major code issue too.--------------
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You make up the plans showing the loft as "non-habitable" space.
You design the stairs or ladder so that the user likes them.
My first recomendation was the spiral staircase, she was open to the idea.
Well, it looks like my first step is the city office - sounds like great fun.
Ladders are far superior to stairs as a mode of transportation.
Yeah, but somehow "I'm
Yeah, but somehow "I'm climbing the ladder to Heaven" just doesn't have a "ring" to it.
Finally!!
PRAISE THE LORD, I can finally finish the project.
Thank you Saint Ladder so much, I've been waiting NINE YEARS for this answer and I can finally leave my desk.
WOW, saintladder sure has some old search and trollllllllllll toollllllll
wonder if that there troll tool has an automatic registration algorithms, probably does,
ol 'what'iz name that is gone' never did add a box to copy to prevent that type trolling , but then he were too gud fer dat.
here i tot is wuz already easter, resurrections of stuff and all....
me, stairs every time