Can I apply laminate to plywood?
I have some small cabinets to build and I really am not crazy about the particle board material that is sold for such use. However, someone told me that the laminate won’t adhere as well to the ply.
Any advice?
BTW, these are open carcasses. They will not be receiving doors and the units are only 4′ long.
A rear addition provides a small-scale example of how to frame efficiently.
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Replies
Use MDO
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Pants???
I Don't need No Steenking Pants!!!
Own house is 35 YO, all the laminate (about 400 sq ft total) is on plywood, NONE has had any problem. Lots of countertops.
Some is on DFir AC, some on baltic birch, some on sanded shop ply. All ply is 3/4 inch or 1.8 cm nominal. All still good. Even one shower stall is laminate over plywoood.
One shed roof is surplus laminate over plywood, not even glued, still good also.
plywood was around long before chip and particle board and guys like us laminated to it! particle board is more dense and glue doesn't "wick" into it as much as it does into the ply face...
just be sure to use better ply and of course laminate to the sanded side....
I've done acres of lam/ply, I always use two coats of glue on the ply side, with nary a lift-off.
Cheers,Phil.
"If 'tis to be,'twil be done by me."
I've done acres of lam/ply, I always use two coats of glue on the ply side, with nary a lift-off.
How do you deal with the fumes from the contact cement?
Breath it in real quick so it doesn't bother other people. The lie down for a nap.
Breath it in real quick so it doesn't bother other people. Then lie down for a nap...on the living room floor. The client's dog will probably join you.
I'll be the dissenter....I never use ply, and never will. I have seen lots of problems. Plus, ply is never flat, inconsistent in thickness etc. The architectural/commercial cabinetmakers learned this lesson hard, and now the quality standards manual will not allow plam over ply...if architects insist, no warranty applies. Also voids every manufacturers warranty I'm aware of, although at least one has some slippery language in there. Definitely though, every plam manufacturer highly reommends partcleboard/MDF, and recommends against ply.
Use a good quality INDUSTRIAL particleboard....not the junk they sell at home centres, the stuff they sell to cabinet shops. Or, use oneof the new hybrid sheets that combines the very few good qualities of ply with the best of the other products. For piece of mind, you could ask for moisture resistant or waterproof PB or MDF, depending what's in your area. If you're doing this in a home shop, you should be using contact cement, and wicking into the material isn't an issue, it's not supposed to. A lot of the pro shops are using much better glues, but you need a way to press it.Cabinetmaker/college woodworking instructor. Cape Breton, Nova Scotia.
Laminate will stick to anything iffn you use plenty of contact cement.
Build up a couple layers on porus stuff. Non porus let dry pretty good first.
Larry b
It works just fine, although as was mentioned if the ply isn't flat, adding laminate isn't going to make things any better.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
Did anyone mention using MDO???.
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Pants???I Don't need No Steenking Pants!!!
Somebody told you wrong. Use contact cement to glue it down. Works like a charm, lasts forever. The only worries you have are the usual worries about warpage with plywood. Use a double layer of BCX, and glue the two "C" sides together to even up the stresses.
Adhesion to the plywood won't be the problem. There's a good chance the plywood will curl unless it's firmly attached. A laminate backer sheet applied to the underside might eliminate the curling. I'd still use industrial particle board but that's up to you. There is a reason all the counter top shops use it.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
There is a reason all the counter top shops use it
"cause its cheaper????
"cause its cheaper????
Not entirely. I've seen/replaced a number of plywood delaminations. Wasn't internally strong enough to hold the plastic laminate, resulting in delamination 2 layers into the plywood. Sure got my attention. Never had that problem with the miles of industrial particle board I've used.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
No, because it's specifically manufactured for the purpose. It's the standard in the industry. We are talking about industrial particle board not something you will find at Home Depot, but many full service lumber yards may carry it. As Adrian said, this is the product that Architectural shops use. The do laminate work by the mile.You can use MDF and plywood but the likelihood of plywood curling, without the application of a backer sheet, is very high, personal experience. MDF adds a considerable amount of weight and on areas like edge banding, may shed it's surface if the banding is pulled on or otherwise stressed. MDF also has some issues with fasteners. There are specialized substrates for unusual applications but for ordinary work, IDGP is most often used. Economy plays a part but manufacturers have to warranty their work. They wouldn't risk failure to save a buck.Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Industrial PB and MDF actually weigh the same amount per sheet (typically 45# per cubic foot). MDF also holds screws better.
Use Advantech. Use solvent base CC. Use a J roller. Use a teflon bearing flush trim bit. Use a flat mill file on the sharp edges after that. Collect yout $$$. Send it to me.
Wow, teflon bearings! Good idea. I somehow missed that advance in laminate trimming.
Didn't you see them yet? Them square ones, that don't burn or glob up with glue. I think it is in the Klingspor cat. or Garretwade..I don't remember where I got them from, but I was doing wood edge, and got pizzed with the bearing tracks showing up.
Square bearings! Yeah right...that I gotta see.Sounds kinda crazy but it just might work with teflon. I hate getting little globs of contact cement on me bearings--arghh!
You really think I am kidding?
View Image
I took you seriously...but it does sound goofy.I will have to try the square bearings...but I'll keep using round tires though.
Mc Feelys. Euro trim bit, LT6-4116 , 19.96 ea.
Oh, just the bearing is 7.19 ea.
Edited 8/18/2007 10:39 am ET by Sphere
You've had plenty of positive indications about ply-lam. I'll add one more from my FIL who was a shipwright for 35 years. He did tens of thousands of SF of lam over ply in salt water fishing ships. It helps to spend a few extra bucks and get ply that is rated 'good one side'. Don't use el-cheapo sheathing.
Scott.
Always remember those first immortal words that Adam said to Eve, “You’d better stand back, I don’t know how big this thing’s going to get.”
30-40 years ago, there were no options....it was ply or solid wood, and ply was better than solid wood. Today, there are options. Good ones.
I've seen this a lot on this board....guys that do one countertop in a blue moon and didn't have a problem with ply, advising that there are no probblems. Those of us that do or have done a lot of countertops, like some of the guys above, know that there are problems, plenty of them, big ones.....delamination, twisting, plywood substrates throwing off all the the laminate (yes, I've seen it, I've seen all the above), telegraphing, out of flat, etc etc. Countertops were an important part of my business, and I've spent a good bit of time deal,ing with the issues.
Guys that when using materials they aren't that familiar with, instead of going with the directions of the manufacturers as they would do with any other material, go DIRECTLY AGAINST THE MANUFACTURERS ADVICE and use a material that the manufacturers specifically advise against. Who are the biggest users of plam countertops? By far, the commercial/architectural shops.....they either make the countertops themselves, or buy it from the fabricators.....either way, the substrate is industrial particleboard or similar.....not because of cost, because of quality and warranty issues. A residential cabinetmaker or conttractor might have to replace one countertop ina kitchen..... the commercial guys might be looking at dozens on a job, hundreds in a year. You will not find them using ply.....if they are forced too, as I mentioned, the industry standard is that no warranty will apply on plam over plywood.
Go ahead and do what y'all want......but think about it....there is a reason that noone with a serious financial interest in countetops will use plywood. It's about performance, not saving a few pennies.Cabinetmaker/college woodworking instructor. Cape Breton, Nova Scotia.
I suspect that the reason the manufacturers prefer MDF over ply is a matter of risk assessment, not workmanship or performance. They KNOW that they will never be held responsible for problems with moisture penetrating the substrate; that would rarely be blamed on the laminate. However, they could very well be accused of defects telegraphing through from plywood knots, roughness, etc. I can hear it now, "This laminate sucks! Look at all the stuff that shows through! I want my money back." Hence, they insist on MDF which, granted, is more consistent than ply but has serious drawbacks if moisture is a potential risk.Those who are aware of the tradeoffs and who use care, good materials, and proper technique can have their cake and eat it too. Good quality ply is much more resistant to moisture (although not infallible) and can provide a solid, level substrate.Scott.Always remember those first immortal words that Adam said to Eve, “You’d better stand back, I don’t know how big this thing’s going to get.”
I think you can, just check here https://revetementagro.com/en/product/agro-plast, some examples