I do volunteer renovation work for needy families and I need some advice from the pros.
We’ve been called in to do some minor repairs for an elderly couple. The husband suffered a stroke and now gets around on a motorized wheelchair. The hallways in the house are narrow and there are scrapes along the walls from the wheelchair. We originally were going to spackle and paint, but one of the guys pointed out that it would look bad again within a few months. He came up with the idea of putting laminate on the walls, from baseboard up to typical chair rail height.
Although I’ve never seen this before, I guess it could work. Does anybody have a better suggestion for protecting the walls? If laminate sounds like a good idea, any hints on adhesives, etc.?
Thanks.
Replies
Laminate does come in different patterns/colors. It will crack with a sharp blow, though.
I've seen a "plastic" (maybe it's PVC) 4x8 sheet with a pebbled finish. Some colors. Used in bathrooms sometimes, mostly commercial. Also used in barns and meat processing places where the walls need to be washed down. Much more sturdy but not very much variety in colors.
For the laminate sheets attached to drywall, I've used PL premium in a tube-gun. Because I did not want the laminate to slide down until I could roll out the whole sheet flat (used a cheap rolling pin), I drilled a few pilot holes at the top that were hidden. Then used some smaller diameter nails with kinda large heads, almost like tacks, to hold it in place. The PL dried fine.
Plexiglas is strong and comes in large sheets. Kinda pricey. But will show whatever wall finish is desired i.e. wallpaper, paint, wainscot.
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
Thanks. I was thinking of using just "spots" of adhesive to make it easier to remove when the time comes. Do you think that would telegraph through?
Adhesive will pull the paper facing off the drywall. To prevent any "bubbles" I'd just squeeze out thin horizontal lines of adhesive every foot or so. Then smooth flat. If the laminate is later removed there will be some skimming of mud to be done to fill in where the paper pulls off.
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
Thanks, Phil. I'm weighing ease of removal to how it looks while installed. I kinda like FastEddie's suggestion of using a small notched trowel: easier to keep the air out while keeping things flat and smooth.
You can get FRP laminated to thin plywood panels. If you used that you could nail it on with finish nails and get it off easily once it was no longer needed.
Florida, that would be really convenient. Do you have a source for these panels?
Only locally. I get them from an insulation wholesaler.
I did a search and found a supplier, thanks!
You've got several options. Cheap hardboard paneling is quite dent/scratch-resistant (though test a piece of what you're considering). "Real" wood paneling is generally a bit easier to scratch, but pick the right color and the scratches cover easily with a dab of stain. "Commercial" vinyl wall coverings are much more scratch-resistant than plain paint/drywall, but harder to repair if damaged.
There are several types of paneling commonly used in (cheap) bathrooms/showers that are basically the hardboard paneling mentioned above with a plastic coating. Another (more expensive) type is essentially the same plastic used in solid-surface countertops, only relatively thin.
Laminate can of course be scratched or dented, though it takes a good deal of force to dent it badly. If it were first applied over, say, 3/8" OSB, it would be more resistant to dents than if applied directly to drywall. And one should pick a color/design that won't highlight minor scratches.
With any sort of paneling product you need to make sure the joints are well-anchored, and possibly might want an aluminum strip over the joints, to keep the edges from being pulled loose.
If most of the scratches occur at a certain height, a chair rail of sorts at that height might be the ticket. Painted or stained pine would work fine (minor dings easily repaired), or there are plastic rails used in commercial situations that are even moderately resistant to forklift damage.
Dan,The hallways are very narrow and I'm trying to avoid adding extra backing. The chair rail idea is a good one. I'll have to check to make sure the damage is at a consistent height. The wife said some of it was caused by ambulance guys bringing in the stretcher, some from the installers putting in a hospital bed and some from the wheelchair...Do you have a source for the commercial plastic rails?
Another option would be to put bumpers on the wheelchair that won't mar the walls.
Then just patch & paint with a good paint, and touch up when needed.
I get the feeling the wheelchair is not the only source of bumps and scrapes...
Sorry, don't know the source for the plastic railing. But it's not much different from plastic decking, so you might be able to use that (with a coat of paint).
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
Use FRP sheets ripped to wainscot height. fasten to the walls with PL spread with a thin notch thinset trowel. You don't want just a copuple of beads of adhesive. You can also get inside and outside corner trim pieces to make it look good.
Here is one source. http://www.frpshop.com/liner-panels-c-3_4.html
"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Edited 8/18/2009 12:52 pm ET by FastEddie
Thanks for the link. I'll check it out for installation suggestions... I'm leaning towards this as the way to go.
Much appreciated.
I'll second Fasteddie's suggestion to use FRP panels.
We have line our recieving area with it and the hallways leading to our bill print and inserter rooms. Pallets jacks, four wheel dollies and janaitor pushing big rolling tubs of trash havent damaged it in the past four years. The stuff is darn near bullet proof over drywall, plaster and concrete block.
I liked it so much I installed it in DW's dog kennel building on the inside walls of the dog pens. It is over 1/2 cement backer board so it can be hosed off as needed. I used a Henry tile adhesive and a notched trowel. It was cheaper per square foot than the PL premium adhesive. It has been up two years now with three or four dogs bouncing off of it every day.
Another +1 for FRP's. Use the matching molding at the seams and perimeter(s). Also +1 on notched trowel- use latex tile mastic which is much cheaper than PL Premium.View Image
Excellent! I would think PL would be better for application on painted drywall instead of mastic. What do you think?
PL would be fine on painted drywall. We use plane od construction adhesive on everything at work. It is a bunch cheaper than PL premium.
We have three or four columns, or more like half columns in a hallway. They are plaster over concrete, so we bent the FRP aound them and use some color matched drive pins to hold them while the construction adhesive set up. A couple of those half rounds take some serious abuse from plalets of paper products dragging agianst them as they swing the pallet jacks around the corners. So far they have been knocked off or cracked.
We are doing a high school right now and the hallways all get laminate panels. the laminate is is attached to 3/4" plywood. the sub doing this work is not onsite yet, so I don't know their installation strategy.
Mike
Small wheel turn by the fire and rod, big wheel turn by the grace of god.
I had a hallway wall( plaster/wood lathe) that had a few holes in it. Since I already had some left over laminate flooring, I nailed this in place on the wall. Works good.
When we were doing institutional millwork we used Kydex on the walls. Comes as thin as plam up to 1/4" thick. I think plam is a poor choice for high school walls although it is used in elevators. Plam has very little impact resistance. http://www.kydex.com/home Chuck Slive, work, build, ...better with wood
I haven't read their specs so I don't really know what product it will be. I am just glad they are covering up our rock, 90% of our walls fire tape. In the past we have used high impact board in schools, that will surprise a tough guy that tries to punch a hole in the wall. Mike
Small wheel turn by the fire and rod, big wheel turn by the grace of god.
Formica makes a "Vertical Grade" formica for walls and backsplashes. Put it up with PL and a notched trowel. Even on sheetrock it's darn tough to dent. Around here Lowes stocks a pebble grained FRP in 4x8 sheets in 3 light colors. I used it my garage it's pretty tough as well. I put it up the same the same way except I also used the mating trim they sell for it.
Yeah, I've seen the stuff at Lowes. Depending on color & textures available I'll either get it from them or online from frpshop.com (thanks FastEddie). I'm thinking of finishing the top off with some wood trim to make it look nicer, but if I do that I should probably also do the vertical seams to match. I'll get the HO's opinion. They may be fine with the plastic trim that's usually used with FRP...
I think I would use the plastic butt joint trim, and top it with a painted wood chair rail. It doesn't have to be fancy, but the deeper profile might make itm look a little better."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
So, are you saying use the plastic trim for the vertical seams and wood trim for the horizontal?
There should not be a horizontal seam. I'm proposing to cap the top edge with wood trim. "Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Yes, that's what I meant. I think it's a good compromise. I was concerned that mixing the plastic trim for the vertical seams with the wood for the top horizontal would look weird...
I'd be a little leery of plastic trim for vertical seams. Too likely to get caught by the edge of the chair and ripped loose.
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
I dunno, Dan. The alternative is wood trim that would have an even higher profile likely to be hit, plus it's certainly less rugged than the plastic. Unless you have a different alternative...
Steel, aluminum, or no trim at all. No trim is risky with some materials (since the edges of the panels can get caught), but might be OK with the fiberglass board, since it's pretty stiff and generally lays flat.I have seen aluminum trim that is a sort of flat D profile. Attaches with small screws.
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
Ok, understood. I'll look into the aluminum stuff. Thanks.
Used it lots of times on walls between cabinets.
If I were going to use it on lower walls I would use contact glue because it needs full support to prevent easy breaking. Just remove the sockets and other surface stuff. Make a note of where they are and router out after install of formica.
I was originally thinking of contact glue, but now I'm leaning towards either the mastic or PL stuff to have some working time. I don't want to deal with working with large panels vertically and keeping them from touching the wall until "aligned just right." I'll leave that for counter tops where I can trim an oversized piece after it's bonded to the counter...
Thats the reason I always installed it first then trimmed over. Cutting the outlet holes never worked out, so did them after too.
What Eddie said: FRP (Fiberglass reinforced panels)
The big boxes in my area carry em. About $25-30 if I recall correctly
"Ask not what the world needs. Ask what makes you come alive... then go do it. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive."
Howard Thurman
http://rjw-progressive.blogspot.com/
How are the door jambs......we've always used offset hinges to gain a bit at the doorway.....
http://www.adaptiveaccess.com/offset_hinges.php
What's wrong with painted halls.....just leave an extra gallon of matching.......It's a wheelchair signature.....
Door jambs are beat up too. Thanks for the link. Looks interesting...
My Brother-in-Law BUTCH was a Quad in a power chair for 55 yrs.......He was a thinker....He worked for NASA....over the years he would design solutions for problems around his house and I would implement them....for doors/halls: Offset Hinges.....they can seem a little 'looser' than standard butts.....but they gain about an 1 1/2" in the doorway.....they add some torque to the hardware....I had to use long screws and add glue/wooden plugs to some "new" masonite doors...... Lever handles.....no brainer there....handy for everyone...For really tight spots we've:Removed door stop on the latch side below the latch.....Piffen: that's part of the Jamb :-)Pad the BASEBOARD with a smooth 2x4 'rail' to help guide the powerchair/wheels down a narrow hallway....He had to enter the hall from an angle....the front wheels would harmlessly hit the rail and steer him down the hall...Good luck....good work
Hey, thanks (and thank Butch)! Great ideas: simple but effective, my favorite...
That's a great idea, but a really cheap looking product."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
For my parents' place I bought some that were a little nicer, and didn't have quite as much offset. Don't recall where they came from (the net somewhere).
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
They may look cheap but they work....I beefed-up the screws and the mounting......for 8'Masonite doorsI understand a lot of the handicapped stuff for sale is pure [email protected] these (in particular) have worked great for many years without problems.....