What is considered an acceptable variation between the edges on the, top surface, of a 45 degree miter joint, when joining pre formed laminate counter tops?
Virginbuild
Old masonry may look tough, but the wrong mortar can destroy it—here's how to choose the right mix for lasting repairs.
"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.
Dig into cutting-edge approaches and decades of proven solutions with total access to our experts and tradespeople.
Start Free Trial NowGet instant access to the latest developments in green building, research, and reports from the field.
Start Free Trial Now
Replies
Acceptable should be no variation.
No lip that you can stub your fingernail on. Any variation is an invitation to water entry and then comes the big variation.
Laminate surface variation
Thank you Calven,
I have +/- 12/1000 with a dial gauge. = about +/- 1/64 inch. The installer is telling me that it is considered acceptable. It is the largest variation I have seen on an installation.
Well, 12/1000ths sounds pretty darn small..........
as does a 64th. that's a qtr of a sixteenth isn't it? Man, that's getting beyond carpenter and headed for machinist. I don't know what to tell you about that other than there's some architectural guidelines regarding acceptable tolerances. The laminate joint just might be there.
There are other "guidelines" adopted by organizations like the HBA if I'm remembering right. These do lean in the direction of the installer/tradesman.
And of course in the bar trade-seems it's something like "will it tip over a wine glass".
You made me go out to the van. There I have a couple of metal rules that do go to the 64ths. I found the measurement to be equal to about a business card/matchbook cover. I think the wine would be safe. I don't think if it's a good glued tite joint that you'll have problem with casual water. And unless the lam installer also put in the cabinets, they have that as an out. While I get a much better fit doing site laminate, I don't know that it's out of the question.....................
It's certainly more than I would like-they are assembling on site and the condition of the base should be consistent-pretty much assureing a more appetizing seam. Also assuming a two man crew to haul it in, fit it and tighten the bolts.
Is this joint proud in just a spot (slight bow) or is it from start to finish all / or one end higher than the other?
Laminate miter joint
Two seams and both are wavy, like up and down from one end to the other.
Virginbuild
.012"
.......is a pretty healthy variation.
I think calvin nailed it in an earlier post - shoot for 0, settle for variation which will not catch a fingernail (about .005").
If the miters were glued upon initial installation (they should have been), you are pretty much stuck.
Post formed counters are not known for perfection and can require a lot of messing, clamping and shimming to get good alignment on initial assembly. I consider a white rubber mallet an essential assembly tool.
Since your seams are wavy, I suspect the counters were not particularly well cared for during storage prior to assembly, this adds to the amount of messing, clamping and shimming necessary to bend them back into alignment.
I have installed a fair amount of these while doing kitchens for the local H4H, I would assemble on saw horses so I had full access to the top and bottom of the counter. I could block, clamp, and bend the counter around for alignment; once the miter clamps were installed and tightened, I would leave the counter on the sawhorses with any auxilary clamps, blocks, etc in place over a weekend while the glue dried fully - then retighten / check the permanent miter clamps, remove "auxilary" clamps, install and trim the end cap laminate and install the next week.
Jim
Laminate surface variation
Thank you for your comments JTC1.
You and Calvin confirm that the variations are slightly over the edge for tolerances. Now I have to reason with the guys from one of the Big Box stores. They say it is OK and acceptable.
Virginbuild
Some will poo poo the Big Box installers..............
and if this was something they farmed out to "anybody" that does myriad installs for them, then I might also........
But, in this area, I order out a countertop-applied beveled edge, corian edge, solid surface, granite-from a middleman-Modern Bldrs Supply (kitchen cabs/tops/appliances)-I get whatever local shop is authorized to do those fabs and installs. And guess where the box stores get theres? From the same authorized companies that do my work through the smaller supplier. Can't say the quality from the big box, but those that do my work do it good and right.
Can't say on a post formed top-haven't done one of those in a zillion yrs. But I can imagine it MIGHT be the same scenario. If I got a top fab'd and installed by the same shop, it would be done right. No fighting there-usually I can call it to the installers attention if necessary. Alot easier to correct b/4 the glue dries.
Best of luck.
Is it glued or simply held together with clamps underneath?
Might be able to loosen the clamps, flatten the miter with a straightedge, and retighten. (Not that it's your job to do so.... the installer should).
Laminate Surface Varaiation on 45 miters
It is waterproof glued and pulled tight with mortised tensioner bolts. Too late for adjustments.
Virginbuild
Too late for adjustments.
You just need a bigger hammer.