Hope this stays in Tools. FHB seems to think that CAD and computers are not tools for professionals sometimes, in spite of the fact that a design/build firm cannot function without them.
I recently upgraded my Softplan software from V12 to V14. It is great and has lots of time saving tools and tricks.
But when it comes to all the newer dynamic textures and 3D modeling, my old machines are not able to keep up with 3D models and renderings.
The two year old laptop will do most of it, but slowly.
The desktop for practical purposes works as a 2D machine only on this upgraded version.
I started a similar thread on the Softplan users site to help me identify my needs as I shop or have a new one built. I thought I would share some of what I am learning and see if any of you have added suggestions.
As software programs grow, they do more but they also require more resources in the hardware. to some degree this is good, and in other ways, it can be viewed as an unholy alliance between Bill Gates, and the manufacturers. Vista would never run on some older machines and might even not find enough space on older hard drives. There is a cycle where the software needs more space and more memory, and the hardware fortunately is able to provide that as Moore’s law keeps satisfying that hunger.
I have not been keeping tabs on hardware developements for 2-3 years so a lot has changed. I think dual core chips had just appeared on the latest and greatest when I last shopped. now you can find quad core…at a price.
I wonder what is best in laptops where heat is an issue.
I find so far that you can buy a laptop with similar specs as a desktop for the same money now,and have the screen right there included.
For good CAD power, It seems that I am looking for the same things that gamers look for in that they run fast though 3D models full of textures and details. So one big recommendation is a good video card with at least 512 mgs of ram contained just on it. I think I recall added Ram to this old desktop to have 512 on the entire machine! LOL
so if anybody wants to chime in with knowledge to share…jump right in.
A lot of people have been asking lately about CAD programs, but it is important for them to know about hardware costs too – along with that ever-important learning curve.
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>So one big recommendation is a good video card with at least 512 mgs of ram contained just on it.
Just be sure to check what the CAD vendor recommends for video cards. Often cards which are great for games don't function as well with CAD. I've found that with Solidworks, at least.
Don
Good point.
SP has a list on their website of video cards that do not work with the version, and the guys at the forum have several recommendations. Seems like Nvidia is topping the list of good ones
.
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Edited 2/11/2009 12:52 pm ET by Piffin
From their web site:
What type of video card does SoftPlan require?
To fully exploit all of SoftPlan's enhanced SoftView modes (for example, sketched and illustrated modes) a video card capable of supporting a minimum of Open GL 2.0, DirectX version 9.0 and a minimum Shader Model Support Version 3.0. The more memory on the video card the better. The higher the number of pixel shaders, vertex shaders, or stream processors, depending on the card, the better the performance will be. Note the video card does not affect the performance of Rendering mode in SoftView but rather wire frame, visible line, shaded, sketched, illustrated and textured modes.
The following cards (chips) will NOT allow all of SoftView's features to be used (please note this is not a complete list):
Intel(R) 910GL, 945G, 945GM, 946GZ, Q943, Q965, G31, G33, Q35
NVIDIA GeForce2 MX/MX 400, Geforce 4 MX 4000
The following cards (chips) will allow all of SoftView's features to be used (please note this is not a complete list):
Nvidia GeForce 5600, 6200, 6600, 6800, 7900 GA, 7900 GS, 7950 GT, 8400
MG, 8800 GT, ATI Mobility Radeon X1400, Mobility Radeon 9000 IGP ATI Radeon X1300, X1550, HD2600 XT, ATI Raydeon 9250
Based on that info, here are my suggestions for a laptop:
#1 = ThinkPad W700 (2757), this has a GIANT screen that can even be seen outdoors, it even has a model that has a 2nd slide out screen... I don't know if a 2nd monitor is helpful with Softplan. It has a pen pad built in. This monster starts at $2500 and will run up to $4000 for a tricked out beast. It will probably last you a decade too.
#2 = Thinkpad T500 with LED backlighting, This also has a big bright screen, not quite daylight ready but closer. The screen resolution is low for a 15", at 1280x800, which might be prefferable for older eyes anyway (My dad and MIL like lower resolutions even on big monitors). This will set you back about $2000 tricked out.
#3 = Thinkpad T400 also with LED backlight. Similar to T500, but with a smaller higher resolution screen and is more portable, also $2000.
EDIT: There is a 3 day sale going on now - 25% off new Lenovo laptops.
If you don't like it, you've got 30 days to send it back!
EDIT again...
This is what I came up with for the monster system, fully loaded except for RAM and Hard drive which can be self upgraded for cheap, I also put on the 4year warrantee that fixes it even if YOU drop it: $3,387.85*
Quantity
Part number
Description
Availability
Item price
Line total
$4,223.00$4,223.00$4,602.00Tu stultus es
Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
Look, just send me to my drawer. This whole talking-to-you thing is like double punishment.
Edited 2/11/2009 6:15 pm by xxPaulCPxx
Edited 2/11/2009 6:29 pm by xxPaulCPxx
Edited 2/11/2009 6:33 pm by xxPaulCPxx
paul..... if you want a laptop... Sager custom builds them... and a lot of the power users in Chief have Sagers
other than that...... i myself will put off for one more cycle.. because the next cycle for both Chief & Softplan will probably be based on Microsoft's new operating system ( 7 ) and the combination of the new graphics from the hardware guys, the new software from Softplan & Chief.... and the new OS is going to be dynamite
right now my graphics cards are NVidia GEforce 6800... but the newwer Nvidia's are way out there
another big deal is making sure that the combination really supports multiple monitors
and that they are true primary monitors.... eg: i can view plans , camera views & sections etc on my primary monitor... but can only display my library on my secondary monitor
this is a function of the processor and the graphics card
so.... bottom line... a year - 18 months from now is going to be a quantum leap ... near as i can figure
here's a link to Sager.... go on in and play with the specs
whoa !
maybe if you see yourself having a new laptop AND a desk unit.. you could jump on the laptop now.... and pick up the new desk unit when the perfect storm hits ( ms OS-7 + new graphics cards + new version of softplan + new intel processor that will take advantage of quad-core technology & ms OS-7 )Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
No link there to sager. I'll google it.Ever hear of Asus?I am also thinking of checking the outfit that built ny desktop for me. They have been real good about support even after the three year warrantee wore out. not hardware failures - just needed my hand held for a couple things.
Also you make good points for waiting but my hardware is already too old, and while this recession has prices dropped on tech stuff is looking like a good time to buy.
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Edited 2/11/2009 9:38 pm ET by Piffin
what is this blue ray stuff and why would I need it?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Blue ray is high definition DVD. It allows you to watch high def DVD's on your computer and if it can also right on Blue Ray discs, it allows a humongous amount of data to be stored on one disk. Standard DVD format can still store a large amount of data.As for the coming Windows 7, it is my understanding that this will be a prettied up Vista with minor improvements but not likely to be a real game changer. I wouldn't worry about being instantly out of date if you buy now. Whenever you buy, the equipment and software available in a year or two will run rings around what you have so you just have to decide when you need the new equipment and go for it. It sounds like you have reached this point.The multi-core processors in theory should be able to produce blazing speeds by spreading the work load across multiple processors (cores) on the chip. The problem is that the hardware is ahead of most of the software. The operating systems do not have the ability to divide up the work of an application program. I do not believe Windows 7 will be able to do this either. There are a few high end programs which have the ability to use the multiple processors effectively. Like the video card, you will want to check with the software vendor for there specs.
You need it if you want to play movies on a big screen TV from your laptop.
Tu stultus esRebuilding my home in Cypress, CAAlso a CRX fanatic!
Look, just send me to my drawer. This whole talking-to-you thing is like double punishment.
here's an interesting article about XP vs. VISTA vs. Windows 7.....
http://www.infoworld.com/archives/emailPrint.jsp?R=printThis&A=/article/09/01/22/03TC-windows-multicore_5.html
just going by that... if I were buying acomputer TODAY, i'd still be sticking with XP Pro
but a year from now..... ?????
Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Edited 2/11/2009 11:35 pm ET by MikeSmith
As long as I have been driving computers, I have been reading that the next windows package will be so much better than the last, and will fix all the previous problems.... unh hnuh! My next wife might be sleeker, faster and curvyer( sp?
) and a better cook and wealthy too.meanwhile, I'm the kind of guy who is happy with what he knows. XP has been stable and fine for me.OTOH, I recall a lot of negative feed on XP when it came out too.
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I think I have watched all of one movie on my lapper. While on a flight someplace. Entertainment is just not a big thing for me, not is the writing to discs.those machines you recommended were pretty pricy by comparison to what I an looking at. Any reason in particular they are more valuable?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Basically everything you guys have told me about buying quality tools instead of cheap crud... that's what a Thinkpad is compared to others.
Before I bought the one I'm typing on right now, 5 or 6 years ago, I actually ordered a Dell, an HP, and a Compaq. Bought, paid, and delivered to my door. All three went back. The Thinkpad line is well known for having one of the best keyboards out there. The T series is very elegantly put together, so as to maximise performance while minimizing weight and size. There is a solid consistency to the whole lineup. I'm very rough on my laptops, but it's put up with quite a bit. The fit, finish, and feel of the whole unit is top notch. The touchstick pointer is suprisingly intuitive - I've disabled the pad on my laptop and use it exclusively.
I still get behind the wheel of other peoples laptops with some of the gigs I do, and I still haven't found anything tempting me away.
If the Lenovo W700 is tempting you at all - and it should at the price it is at right now - then you should order it AND that HP you are putting together. Both companies offer satisfaction guarantees, just return the one that doesn't offer the value you are looking for.
Tu stultus esRebuilding my home in Cypress, CAAlso a CRX fanatic!
Look, just send me to my drawer. This whole talking-to-you thing is like double punishment.
my mother board is an Asus
check out those SagersMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Been looking at them.Asus is recommended by some guys at the SP forum.I keep coming backl to the HP site too. I have never been unhappy with my current HP 9000 series lap. It is just oputdated.You have one a bit newer than mine don't you?anyways, they have a new rig with an 18.something screen now, and all the specs I see that I need, it looks like I can get from HP cheaper than a lot of the others after building several virtual orders.http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/shopping/computer_can_series.do?storeName=computer_store&category=notebooks&a1=Category&v1=Entertainment+powerhouse&series_name=HDX18t_series
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this one is an HP Pavillion dv9000
with Nvidea GEforce 7600 graphics...
got it in late '06
hey....did you read the part where
xp Pro is still faster than vista & 7 ?
Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Still reading that now, but had inklings of the fact from other reading and assumptions from general principles I mentioned in my OP. I might be wise to install my XP on the new machine as I retire the old.
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I know you use dual monitors, but I have never felt compromised by just using one, though bigger is better for sure. So a vidcard that runs multiples is not as important to me. But that has been mentioned in my thread at SPLASH also.Here are some other comments on vidcards from there..."I would just make sure that your laptop video equipment is really good for SoftPlan. I have an Nvidia Quadro nvs 120m, and it is not a good option for SP. While it's easy to change out a video card in a desk top, it's nearly immpossible in a laptop. SP has some graphic card reccomendations @ tech support.With a desk top machine, the video card manufacturer (let's say Mvidia) supplies the driver, and they issue updates fairly often. With a laptop (let's say Bob's laptop manufacturing co.), Bob tweaks Mvidia's driver to work in the laptops. Bob is not motivated to tweak new Mvidia driver releases for his machines, because it takes resources to do so, and if your Bob's lap top continues to work well, you may delay replacing it with the latest and greatest Bob offering.So you have to get educated to the ways of driver hacks and be willing to rip into the barest levels of software operations of your machine. That is if your original driver isn't the best, which it may be.My future set up will be a desk top with 2 big monitors, and a cheap 17" screen laptop for field work. I love building the model in SP while on the site of a remodel/addition. I seldom have to go back for a measurement. Then I'll work on the design and renderings on the high speed desktop, and use the lap top again for outside presentations."Â
Â
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Edited 2/12/2009 8:26 am ET by Piffin
i got a "we're sorry, that machine is gone " messageMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Interesting, I'll go back and edit that link out.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I just recently had a great experince with Dell Small Business. If I were you I'd give them a call or a chat session through the small business link. Once you call you'll be assigned a sales agent that you can deal with for the entirety of your purchase (if you choose to). Be sure to go through the small business portal otherwise you'll be talking to Bombay ...Bob or New Delhi ...Dave. They basically interviewed me for what my intentions were for the computer and helped ensure it would be a good fit for me & the software I run. I was able to get a free downgrade to XPPro although the machine was built for Vista (yuck).
How old are your current machines? Is the RAM maxed out? The vid cards previoulsy listed aren't anything extravagnt IIRC so there may be a potential of upgrading components as opposed to a complete replacement.
Once you start using dual (or triple) montiors you'll never go back.
I have no idea on whether I could upgrade the laptop. Did consider adding a vidcard to the desktop, but it is simple too old a machine to make that worth while, by time I spend two hundred on just a vidcard on a five year old machine, I can get a better newer machine off the rack for six bills. But it might be worth considering....maybe I should take it in to be kicked up...my desktop is an XPathalon(tm)3000+ 2.16 ghz and showing 480 of Ram, though I know I upped it to 512 already. I don't know if there was room for more ram, but I see about five blank bays at the back of the machine
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
to check on RAM upgrades go to http://www.crucial .com and run their little program that interrogates your computer. It should be relkatively quick on your dialup. It will tell you what you have, what's available and make offers on upgrades. If you do buy through them be sure to NOT use the free shipping; it took 8 days for my last order to show up.
Vid cards on an old machine might be limited by the PCI slot types, newer faster ones have PCI express slots. Go to wikipedia for a good desrciption between PCIexpress and PCI slots.
Thanks - I think. If you talk me into doing surgery here myself and I screw up, I'll bee sure to sell you some wet firewood or something like that.Mike, here is the approximate machine I was looking at but not the actual way i was building it
http://www.shopping.hp.com/series/category/notebooks/HDX16t_series/3/computer_store?jumpid=in_r329_personalization/browse4/home_SDP
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I think your processor is fast enough, although not the fastest, but I think it ought to work. Other issues may be things running in the background using up RAM & processor capacity.
If I have to I'll take your wet firewood but you'll have to cover delivery charges.
ETA 2 more sources for machines: http://www.dellauction.com/ http://www.dfsdirectsales.com/
Edited 2/12/2009 9:12 am ET by john7g
I'm really leery of Dell over most of what I heard re service and warrantee the past couple years and every time in the passt that I priced them, they were more expensive than comparables.it only took me eleven seconds to download that scanner from Crucial. They found that I have two slots, each now holding 256megs to max me out, but they recommend that I can replace both existing with a couple one gigs in each slot to give me four times the RAM I have now. Right on the processor - the min recommendation on processor is 2.0 and I exceed that. So a memory upgrade and a video card would set me back about three bills for this machine and might get me functional again.Time to run my system cleaner to and search for spyware. It's been a couple months...
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A man of your stature deserves the best. Go thru this customization (click for more info when necessary) and get yourself something that will last. Check out the new solid state drives. And note the 12 Gig of RAM.
http://www.alienware.com/customize/alx-x58-desktop.aspx?SysCode=PC-ALX-X58&SubCode=SKU-DEFAULT
You can pick up the 30" monitor for a couple of hunnert bucks cheeper on the web.
So, for about 8 grand, you'd be set!
Oh? You wanted a laptop. They got those too. Click on "products" at the top.
Edited 2/12/2009 10:20 am by peteshlagor
"A man of your stature deserves the best."
You been looking at the picture in my profile again eh? LOLThanks, but you know what we deserve and what the budget allows are not always synonymous.I will look at that later. Just had a call from a client who needs some revisions pronto. The name alienware came up someplace in reading reviews as being good, but for some reason the lead died
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>re service and warrantee<
$100 got me 3yrs USA service techs for any warranty and NBD service on hardware.
This is a config I came up with on that system:
Operating system
Upgrade to Genuine Windows Vista Ultimate with Service Pack 1 (64-bit)
edit
Processor
Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo Processor P8400 (2.26 GHz)
edit
Memory
4GB DDR2 System Memory (2 Dimm)
edit
Hard drive
500GB 5400RPM SATA Hard Drive with HP ProtectSmart Hard Drive Protection
edit
Graphics card
512MB NVIDIA GeForce 9600M GT
edit
Display
16.0" diagonal High Definition HP Ultra BrightView Infinity Display (1366x768)
edit
Primary DVD/CD drive
$50 OFF!! Blu-Ray ROM with SuperMulti DVD+/-R/RW Double Layer
edit
Personalization
Webcam + Fingerprint Reader with HP Imprint Finish (Fluid)
edit
Networking
Intel Next-Gen Wireless-N Mini-card with Bluetooth
edit
TV & entertainment experience
No TV Tuner w/remote control
edit
Keyboard
HP Color Matching Keyboard
edit
Primary battery
6 Cell Lithium Ion Battery
edit
Productivity software
No Productivity Software
edit
Your additional options:Click edit to modify. NOTE: These items are in stock and will ship immediately.
Adapters
HP 90W Smart-pin Auto/Air/AC Adapter for Notebook PCs
edit
Docking stations
HP Notebook QuickDock
edit
HP extended service plans
3-year HP Accidental Damage Protection with HP Pick Up and Return
edit
Price
$2,513.96*
Instant rebate
-$200.00
Mail-in rebate
-$0.00
Total:
$2,313.96
Tu stultus esRebuilding my home in Cypress, CAAlso a CRX fanatic!
Look, just send me to my drawer. This whole talking-to-you thing is like double punishment.
Here is a similarly equiped w700... but you'd have tooder it today to get the deal:
Cart details
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Subtotal:
$3,752.00View Image
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Sale Price:
$3,273.00
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[USPTHREEDAYSALE]
-$504.90
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Estimated total:
$2,768.10*
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Total savings
$983.90
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Now, there were a couple of options that are larger on the HP than the Lenovo, the 4gig RAM vs 2 and the 500gig HD vs 160. Lenovo is a little rich on these upgrades, and they are easily upgraded at home. Trust me, if you can change the brushes on and electric tool, you can do this.
Now the difference is closer to $500, AND you have a WACOM digitizer pad built into the thing as well as a screen you can see in daylight.
Really, buy them both and send back the one you don't like!
Tu stultus esRebuilding my home in Cypress, CAAlso a CRX fanatic!
Look, just send me to my drawer. This whole talking-to-you thing is like double punishment.
"my desktop is an XPathalon(tm)3000+ 2.16 ghz and showing 480 of Ram, though I know I upped it to 512 already."I don't have experience with SP, but I would very seriously consider upgrading your RAM to see if that helps. I wonder if you would solve a significant amount of your problems by fixing the RAM bottleneck.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Yeah, I am thinking after today that it is worth a shot to upgrade this machine first. That way. I now I have a stable XP Pro system, already have it hooked to a removeable backup HD and my home network...and if doing thi9s and getting a newer video card doesn't do it, I can still keep shopping for the rightest deal on a laptop.I noticed today that as I prepared a presentation rendering that after I added furniture symbols and lighting, it took about three times as long to render than with just walls, floor, cabinets and roof in place.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I'm looking on NewEgg.com at parts for your system at the moment.
That processor means you have a Socket A motherboard, it takes an AGP video card and 184 pin DDR 266/333/400Mhz RAM, also called PC2100, PC2700, or PC3200 respectively
A new AGP video card for your system would run around $85 to $105 (512MB video memory).
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010380048%201069609639%20106792462&name=Radeon%20HD%203000%20series
I would guess you currently run a 5yo monitor, probably a 17" CRT type - or have you upgraded to a newer widescreen model yet? For older monitors and newer graphics cards, a little $10 adapter is needed.
For RAM, I saw some rebates going that would bring 2GB of RAM in for $54 to $65
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010170147%201052107965%201052308477&bop=And&Order=PRICE
These are very easy upgrades. I've even got a Socket A mother board I could use to walk you through the upgrade over the phone if you like.
Tu stultus esRebuilding my home in Cypress, CAAlso a CRX fanatic!
Look, just send me to my drawer. This whole talking-to-you thing is like double punishment.
and i bet you'll use screwsMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Beat me to it! LOLI'm sitting here scrolling his message and thinking that Piffin screws would have to come into a phone conversation somehow when I came to your post!
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Hmm I am prowling to confirm the Motherbd and you are right on the monitor assumption. I'll see what the system reports for current cardThanks for this research. I will check if that vidcard is workable with SP.
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Under display adapters my device manager reports a VIA/S3G Unichrome IGP 2/2/04
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Your video card is currently the one built into the motherboard, and it borrows from the 512MB of RAM for it's memory - which is why you see 480 MB ram when you look.
I'm actually more curious about your RAM, is it 266, 333, or 400 (PC2100, PC2700, PC 3200). I'm pretty sure the faster RAM will still work fine in a slower setup.
BTW, replacing parts DOES involve screws... but I'm open minded. If you want to close up your computer case with 10d Maze hot dipped galvies, more power to ya!
On thing to consider with a 5.y.o computer is fan life. While you have the case open, check for fans that don't spin, spin up slowly, of make alot of noise. Fans cost about $5, unless it's in the power supply where it's better to just replace the supply (big capacitors in there you don't want to be poking with, don't ask me how I know this). Even the fan on top of the CPU chip is fairly easy to replace if you need to.
You should consider a bigger monitor too. I'm seeing 22" monitors falling below $200 now, and that's a big step up from where you are now. Saves elec. too! I personally like pivoting models that allow you to read a full page of text without scrolling up and down.
Tu stultus esRebuilding my home in Cypress, CAAlso a CRX fanatic!
Look, just send me to my drawer. This whole talking-to-you thing is like double punishment.
>I'm pretty sure the faster RAM will still work fine in a slower setup.<
It will work.
This whole RAM thing is so amazing. I bought the machine with 256, then added another one and that was maxed out possibility about three years ago. now I find out I can get four times as much by replacing both in this old machine and that some machines can swallow six times that much!
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There is a limit, at least with XP there is. If you're running XP 32 Bit the max it will recognize and use is 3gb. You can install more but it won' t be used. The 64 Bit version of XP will use more but I dunno how much more. How do you kow which one you have? When looking at the systems rt click on My Computer and select properties) if it just says XP you have 32. It ill definitely say if you have a 64 bit system. I think very few of us are operating 64 Bit systems, most software on't run it. go figger.
What amazes me is the drop in prices on memory. How did http://www.crucial.com compare to http://www.newegg.com on the RAM prices that Paul was pointing you towards?
I haven't looked at the RAM pricing as much as trying to make heads/tails out of the video cards. Right now I feel like my wife would if I sent her down to the auto parts store to pick me up a new starter for an engine - almost totally lost.I do know my XP is 32 bit and that SP does not use the 64.
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OK, the recommended from Crucial gets me to the 2 gigs for $90 without worrying about rebates.Here is another Q that comes to mind - how do I find out what my power supply is and if compatible with the card I am choosing? One I look at says 300Watt min Can't find my power supply in devices. is it called something else?
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you might have to crack the case and see what's written on the power supply itself. It'll be easy to find.. once it's open look at the HDDs and the CD/DVD drives. you'll see a data cable coming from it and then a 2 or 3 (can't remember exactly the # or the colors but something want's me to think red, black white or yellow)) wire bundle. Follow that group back to the power supply. Hope it's situated so you can read the data plate.
But I'm not sure you'll be maxing out the power requirements for the vid card doing CAD work. Seems like the cards are designed for the gamer and we never use them to that capacity. But that's just conjecture on my part.
this is from a discussion on ChiefTalk.....from the software design guru... i would think the same things pertain to SP
<<<<<Hardware we Design forThe type of hardware we design for tends toward higher performance hardware. This is so that we get the most out of the best. In some cases this means that lower end hardware will suffer a little in performance.For example, X2 is designed for multi-core machines. This means that in a few cases a single core machine running X2 may not perform as well as it did for X1 on the same operation. This also includes the older hyperthreaded Intel machines. Because these report to the software that there are two cores we try to use them.This also means that if your hardware is more than 2 or 3 generations old it is more likely to start to degrade in performance. Just because you bought you system a year ago doesn't mean that you are using state of the art hardware. Depending on what you buy you can end up with hardware that was originally released as much as 5 years earlier. You have to be careful with this because a system can look really good on paper but be a poor performer because it has old components in it.Memory SpeedThis is the most often overlooked and most important performance factor in today's CPU's. In the early years of computer development memory speed kept up with CPU speeds pretty well. Now, the difference between memory and CPU speed can be very significant. This has led many to look at CPU clock speed as a good indicator of performance. Today a better measure of performance is memory throughput.If it's a choice between faster CPU and faster memory go for the faster memory. If you can double your memory speed you can often almost double the performance of your system. It won't quite do that depending on the operations, but it is good to think of it this way because it is that important.Spending money to put a faster CPU won't help nearly as much.Many systems today have slow memory or extra latency in the mother board that slows systems down because it makes the system cheaper to build and will look good to the naive consumer.Multi Core SystemsThe more cores the better. Except that the reason for this is not always more cores. One of the reasons that multi-core machines are faster is that in order to get the performance out of the cores they had to make memory access faster. A lot of the dual core machines are faster because they are 64 bit and the memory path to the CPU is twice as wide.The latest Intel hardware promises better parallel access to memory and should allow threaded applications to perform better.X2 has been designed to support multiple cores in certain areas. There is more that will come in X3. There are also possible improvements that could be made at the operating system level as well.Video CardsUsually NVIDIA is best followed by ATI.Stay away from anything running the Intel Integrated graphics.High end gaming cards are generally better than the more expensive CAD cards. Part of the reason the CAD cards aren't a good choice is that the drivers tend not to be as solid. There may be some that perform well. If you have any comparisons to offer here that would be useful.Chief is designed using gaming cards.More memory on the card is generally better.My Recommended SystemBuy the fastest hardware that you can afford. Often if you buy 1 step below the bleeding edge it will cost you half of what you would pay if you bought the best. This also means that you can upgrade twice as often for the same long term cost.
__________________Doug ParkPrincipal Software ArchitectChief Architect, Inc. >>>>Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Something that jumped out from that article - to stay away from the intel cards. Most of the list of cards that do not work with SP are intel cards
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that would tend to confirm my thinking that SP & Chief are built the same wayMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
The ram is DDR PC 2700 - 256 eachLooks like Open MK77M-8XNAPCI fan(s)?
Pretty sure I ordered with an extra fan inside when I bought it. I do hear them running from four feet away.I have considered a monitor. Just got back in the house dog tired, so I will have to review all this later, then make some orders over the weekend.
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OK, let me make this easy for you:
2Gig PC2700 RAM for $65.99http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820134177
512MB AGP Video Card (ATI 3850, as far as I know the latest AGP card available)for $109.99 after rebatehttp://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102730
Or for the same thing even cheaper - open box at $82.97http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102730R
Adapter so you can use your current monitor at $3.99http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814998101
And if you are interested, a 22" monitor at $169http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3883448&CatId=2775
Don't worry about fans, just look at them when you open the case. They obviously work or obviously don't. If they don't I'll tell you what you need.
THATS IT - NO MORE THINKING! YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT IT MEANS ANYWAY! JUST CLICK ADD TO CART AND ORDER THE DANG THINGS ALREADY!
EDIT: By Intel cards, they are talking about the cards built into the motherboard... like the one you are already using right now! Also, your power supply is probably 300 watts, it's a pretty standard size for that time frame.
Tu stultus esRebuilding my home in Cypress, CAAlso a CRX fanatic!
Look, just send me to my drawer. This whole talking-to-you thing is like double punishment.
Edited 2/13/2009 7:11 pm by xxPaulCPxx
careful , paul..... you know how paul's like to get their back upMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Everything is tongue in cheek - really, by now do either of you take me the least bit seriously :)
Don't make me get screwy with you!
Tu stultus esRebuilding my home in Cypress, CAAlso a CRX fanatic!
Look, just send me to my drawer. This whole talking-to-you thing is like double punishment.
why not the Nvidia card?
Nvidia stopped making AGP cards a couple generations ago. If you look at the specs, they don't support Directx10. While having the same amount of memory, the 3850's are going to have alot of other enhancements from being a couple generations newer than the 6200 or 7600 Nvidia.
Tu stultus esRebuilding my home in Cypress, CAAlso a CRX fanatic!
Look, just send me to my drawer. This whole talking-to-you thing is like double punishment.
How would that latest rec from you compare to this one
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121260
it calls for 300 watts I think but that other you showed just now wants over 400watts.
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I see the power requirements now - sorry, missed that the first time. I don't think it's going to actually matter though... I'll bet it will work without a hitch.
You might have a probelem if you fired up a game.
BUT... the idea here is to build certanty, not doubt in your system.
Here is a good power supply that is energy efficient and will fit into most low end computer cases I've seen at $64.99http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151040
The difference between the 3650 you linked to and the 3850 I was pointed to? More lanes for traffic to flow. They are both based on the same main chip, but the one I pointed out has more lanes for graphic information to flow and process. Both cards will give you a boost, the 3850 has much more potential in it.
I would compare it to a jigsaw with 4 orbital actions, the 3650 is position 3, the 3850 is position 4... a little more agression from the same tool. The current video setup you use would be like a dull drywall saw in comparison!
Tu stultus esRebuilding my home in Cypress, CAAlso a CRX fanatic!
Look, just send me to my drawer. This whole talking-to-you thing is like double punishment.
paul.... just picked up one of Helen's new books..it's a Stuart Woods....."Dark Harbor"..... have you read it... a real page turnerdo you know Woods ?... i'm guessing that his house on an "island in Maine" is also Islesboroif you've read it... does it do justice to descriptions of Islesboro ?Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Okay, there seems to be an assemblage of geeks here. I use vector works and sketchup on an old imac power pc w/ a 20" monitor. I can't see drawing on anything smaller, and usually wishing the screen was bigger. I also have a duo-core 13" macbook. When I do a presentation at a client's, I just firewire the stuff from the imac to the laptop, and travel.The laptop also has paralles and runs windows 98. With all security the pc side needs for internet travel, I never use it, for anything... but, my son has learned autocad, and with chief and softplan only running on a pc platform, I'm wondering...if I got one of these:http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_mac/family/imac?mco=MTE2NjMwould it work with chief or softplan on the pc side? I'd rather not use the pc side for internet because of the constant updating and expense for security... Any way to download like chief or sp updates to the mac side, then get them to the pc side?The cost of the macs seem a lot less than what you're throwing out for piffen, and I know macs are better computers with great service... but, would it work?http://www.tvwsolar.com
I went down to the lobby
To make a small call out.
A pretty dancing girl was there,
And she began to shout,
"Go on back to see the gypsy.
He can move you from the rear,
Drive you from your fear,
Bring you through the mirror.
He did it in Las Vegas,
And he can do it here."
as far as i know.. a mac is a windows machine and it will work on the window sideyou need to buy a copy of the operating system ( i'd recommend XP Pro ...not Vista )and load it into your Mac...
when you boot... you boot into Windows instead of Macthere are a lot of internet connections nowadays between the software and the software vendersfor instance... my current version of Chief was downloaded from the internet
and all my tutorials are on the internetthink about working in vectorworks... don't you use the internet when you are working ?one of these days i'll open my Macbook Pro in windows and download Chief onto it and take a look... but so far i prefer working with my software on my windows machines.... i use the Mac for pictures which is why i bought itMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I really don't want to use the windows side for the internet... and, being a learn as need bozo, I do use the internet help for both vectorworks and sketchup.That's easy enough, it seems, with two computers. I'd like to know if you get chief to work on your mac.
http://www.tvwsolar.com
I went down to the lobby
To make a small call out.
A pretty dancing girl was there,
And she began to shout,
"Go on back to see the gypsy.
He can move you from the rear,
Drive you from your fear,
Bring you through the mirror.
He did it in Las Vegas,
And he can do it here."
i'll load my copy of X1 on... since i have the dvd
BTW.... i have 3 full licences for Chief... all with SSA & X2...
if your son is thinking of Chief.. let me know... i can sell my 3d license and it will be registered to the purchaser by Chief.. naturally...... this would be a nice discount off the full priceMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Snort,I'm running Vectorworks on the iMac and it is very speedy. Wondering why you would want to jump from VW to Chief or Softplan and have to learn all over again. VW is pretty comparable to Chief (I had to use Chief for work for a year. Never really liked it very much).Steve
I have a copy of VW11 that a client gave me. Replaced Claris CAD, ha. I'm fine with floor plans, elevations, cabinets, etc, but I've never gotten into the 3d side. I use Sketchup for that.I've heard a lot of good things about Chief and Softplan, and I have this unused pc side of the laptop... and, I just like playing with stuff that is totally unrelated to gainful employment.http://www.tvwsolar.com
I went down to the lobby
To make a small call out.
A pretty dancing girl was there,
And she began to shout,
"Go on back to see the gypsy.
He can move you from the rear,
Drive you from your fear,
Bring you through the mirror.
He did it in Las Vegas,
And he can do it here."
I see. It's different if you aren't mentally trained in VW already. VW has a lot of power and control in 3D. I never use it in 2D at all. That's abut 1600 bucks worth of program you got. Did you get the manuals and everything? Do you need the dongle to run it? IS it the "Architect" version?I saw Softtplan demonstrated at a JLC several years ago and was impressed with the demonstrations. I think it's really geared towards builders. But it's hard to say without really using it. Chief, back when I was using it, was a little hard to exercise precise control over some things. It had lots of automated "features" built into it that required some very counterintuitive workarounds to defeat. At least it did 7 years ago.I'm pretty sure you could run either of them just fine on the iMac, either booting into windows natively or vial Parallels or VMWare Fusion. Your question about downloading on the Mac side and installing on the windows side is interesting. I would think if you could do it. I think it would hinge on more on the installation routines of the programs. I don't know if they need to be connected to the internet to install.You could go online via windows in parallels. Set windows up in it's own partition or onw it's own external drive. Supposedly the mac side and the pc side are isolated from each other. So unless you pick up a really nasty virus or worm that tries to trash the entire drive(s), at worst you would be exposing the windows side only to malware.Steve
when you are talking to a SP rep at a builders show, they are presenting it to builders so they give that impression more strongly. And it is true to some degree. But most of the guys posting at SPLASH are designers and architects, and then quite a few like me who are in transition. It would be interesting to know what are the professional demographics of their customer base.I think all your comments are spot on with those comparisons. I've seen vectorworks in action ( I think they have a mac version) And the precision editing for chief was very hidden and difficult when I first invested in CAD. Don't know about the current, but SP is ten times as much controlable now than it was then. ( more to learn tho. Discovering new tools and tricks daily.
0
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Yes, VectorWorks began life as a Mac-only program called Mini-CAD. and remains very strong on the Mac. I've been on it since version 4.Things have changed tremendously in so many of the mission-critical programs I use over the years. Makes keeping up kind of a chore. Especially if you don't use them all the time. I just upgrade VW about a year and a half ago and it's two versions newer since then. I still don't know how to use the version I've got very well.So are you planning on drawing full-time eventually? I would have a hard time doing it that much. I enjoy it in bits and pieces.Steve
That has been the goal because of physical health.But this week I spent 40 hours in four days on the machine drawing and by friday was stir crazy - went to the job and hung three doors that after noon to have some movement.note to self - see that treadmill over there? go use it daily
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
use my
ez-ski every day
but stir-crazy.... you betMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
<That's abut 1600 bucks worth of program you got.>I did a remodel for a friend... I paid a lot more than $1600 for it!but, it did come with the manual... it's the loaded version w/ landscape, lighting, etc... and, what's my dongle got to do with it?I get weirded out on the windows side, it's like going to a snake handler's fest.http://www.tvwsolar.com
I went down to the lobby
To make a small call out.
A pretty dancing girl was there,
And she began to shout,
"Go on back to see the gypsy.
He can move you from the rear,
Drive you from your fear,
Bring you through the mirror.
He did it in Las Vegas,
And he can do it here."
My VW Architect student version has a dongle that has to be in the USB port for the program to run. Lose the dongle, and you are out of luck...You must buy a new license. Extreme anti-piracy measures if you ask me. If I lose it, I might not buy VW again just to show them how PO'ed I am that they are so rigid about it.I had to work on windows machines for a couple of years (hence my face time with chief). The offices that I worked in were constantly struggling against things not working as expected. So much time lost.I would be awfully leery of spending any amount of time online w/windows, but the rest of the world seems to manage it. I think if you went online via windows through a router and a firewall with one of the freebie anti-virus and anti-malware programs installed for just as long as it took to download the program, you would probably be OK. When running software on the windows side thereafter, I would disconnect the modem. I got chief to run verrrry slowly on Virtual PC back in the day. Emulation is supposedly much better these days.Steve
No dongle... and I know folks who have gotten Vectorworks full versions off LimeWire. Funny there's not an update to replace that dongle.I'll probably stay with VW 11 until apple doesn't support it... I just moved up from Tiger to Leopard 2 weeks ago, and now Snow Leopard is due out!I can always go back to the G3 beige tower and run Claris CAD in OS9 LOLhttp://www.tvwsolar.com
I went down to the lobby
To make a small call out.
A pretty dancing girl was there,
And she began to shout,
"Go on back to see the gypsy.
He can move you from the rear,
Drive you from your fear,
Bring you through the mirror.
He did it in Las Vegas,
And he can do it here."
what's the matter with generiCad6?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
"what's the matter with generiCad6?"I think what I really need is Geriatric CAD.http://www.tvwsolar.com
I went down to the lobby
To make a small call out.
A pretty dancing girl was there,
And she began to shout,
"Go on back to see the gypsy.
He can move you from the rear,
Drive you from your fear,
Bring you through the mirror.
He did it in Las Vegas,
And he can do it here."
does that come with the iron poor tired blood app added?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I'll tell you after my nap.http://www.tvwsolar.com
I went down to the lobby
To make a small call out.
A pretty dancing girl was there,
And she began to shout,
"Go on back to see the gypsy.
He can move you from the rear,
Drive you from your fear,
Bring you through the mirror.
He did it in Las Vegas,
And he can do it here."
Not familiar with the book so I asked Carole. She said no, but the author might have stayed here at the Inn once upon a time. She scrunched her face up and I got the impression that she didn't like the book or the author or something, so that's all the more I asked, LOL
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
good... when Helen finishes it ... i'll send it along... see what Carole really thinksMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Maybe I wasn't clear - she has read it, just didn't like it.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
ok....wonder which island he has a summer house onMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
there are a few thousand to pick from
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
THE MORE i LOOK AT NEW EGG AND SEARCH PRODUCTS, THE MORE CONFUSED i GETSee I even type with all caps now...How do I know how many pins a card has and some of these talk 256 bis - others like 64 bits...is AGP as style or a maker? what of radeon, or ATI or Nividia. Is an AGP card the only kind I can use? And on and one and on.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I bought two 2 GB RAM chips for my D630 laptop for about $55 from either Crucial or Kingston. I know some older chips are more expensive, but $65 seems kinda high for 2 GB.
$44.95 each for mine at Crucial
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Yep, welcome to the wonderful world of old RAM... the farther back you go, the more expensive it gets. Ususally you find this out with printers, they frequently will use very old RAM chips. They don't require the same I/O speeds that CPU's do, so it suits them just fine, and designs stay in production longer.
But try not to barf when they ask you to spend $150 on 256MB RAM!
Tu stultus esRebuilding my home in Cypress, CAAlso a CRX fanatic!
Look, just send me to my drawer. This whole talking-to-you thing is like double punishment.
That's the kind of threshold that makes a new machine worthwhile!
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Good idea (support Dell)....cause they are in my back yard!
Apple and Lenovo are about the cream of the crop when it comes to laptops.
The only catch with the MacBook is if the CAD software has very specific tie-ins to a particular video card. But unless you are doing live 3-D modelling fly-throughs, I doubt that would be a huge issue.
I don't think you need a 'gaming' system. The key to gaming systems are very high-end video cards that have massive refresh rates at super-high resolutions. Not really an issue for architectural rendering.
what happens with lesser video cards and drivers is that the rendering happens slower and there are some items that the thing simply decides not to display. For instance I can get a slow render on my laptop, but when I do the same thing on the desktop I might not get any plumbing fixtures, or the cabinets might show as boxes only with no detailing to the faces.adding lights to renderings really slows it down - it all depends how complicated a house it is and how many things like 3D symbols with curved surfaces you use.SP works in a 3D environment. The gurus at the SPLASH forum are where I get that high end video cards and drivers are important as well as the notation quoted above from Softplan's website.I can get by fine with the hardware I have if I want to display simple cartoon 3D sketches is all.
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open GL .... i gotta think that SP & Chief must pretty much process rendering & 3-d cameras about the same way
Nvidia always winds up at the top of the list....
but i would think a video cdard with only 512 on board would be passe'
i'd be looking for 1 gig or 2 gig
also sometimes it's cheaper and better to get last years' video card, but loaded up ith ram
but hey, whadda i no ?
Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Edited 2/12/2009 2:24 pm ET by MikeSmith
same here, I'm teahing myself as I go on this. ccomments at Splash are that 512 is about right but more is better, and that making sure the driver is updated is important- highly so
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I ordered my stuff over the weekend so I should have it by next weekend to open the case. I'll look you up if I get in over my head
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
why don't you do a webinaire.... and we can all kibbutzMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
tell me first what a webinaire is...a refridgerator where web content can cool off?As in - Rez is in the webinaire, LOLGotta go look up a word now darn it. Expanding my mind just as I'm off the bed so it can shrink....
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
OK, see it now. That spelling brings me a bunch of french sites, but webinar made sense, a seminar on the web.Problem is I would need the high powered stuff that I am upgrading too to get it up
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
i do some training on Chief in webinars... pretty cool.... usually over SkypeMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Oh great Mike! now I gotta figure out what a skype is....You are smarter than bobbys and brownbag put together! Nunadem ever taught me two new words in two posts.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Skype is a way of talking on the phone over your internet connection... which is a little ridiculous if you are on dialup!
Tu stultus esRebuilding my home in Cypress, CAAlso a CRX fanatic!
Look, just send me to my drawer. This whole talking-to-you thing is like double punishment.
yeah..... one a da advantages of island livingMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Whale now, here I am boss.wanted first to thank you for the encouragement to try this surgery. I'm still wiping the blood off my hands and have a couple hemostats to remove before letting the nurse practitioner close up the patient, but I can report that the patient survived the transplant and is already showing signs of vitality and better health.I thought I would be calling you this morning sometime, but I got over a hurdle that had me stalled late last night.for others thinking of this I'' walk thru what I ran into and say that briefly the keywords would be study, be patient, and keep a logical head about you. I did start out with some nervousness and trepidation. Yesterday I went to look up several sites with instructions how to do the RAM upgrade installs and to install new video cards. There were a lot of inadequate ones brought up on Google that were probably good as a preflight checklist for an experienced techie, but meant little to me, but I found some that had pictures and detailed instructions and there were some videos also, but with my slow dial-up connectio9n I avoided those.My problems and hang ups came from things that were not covered anywhere that were probably unique to my hardware setup.I did these installs one at a time, RAM first. I wanted to know for sure that one item was up and working before going to the next, so that if there were any problems, I had them isolated to what it was related to.Sop I stripped the cover, disconnected all the periphelals and power cords, located the RAM on the motherboard (easy 'cause it looked almost just like the new strips), and one at a time I pulled them off and snapped the new in. then fired it back up.when I snapped them in my instinct was that maybe the second strip didn't seat quite as nicely as the first, but WTH, let's go try it.BUt she wouldn't recognize the RAM at all. Shutter down again and studied things out. I had that second strip in backwards compared to the first, so I turned it around and restarted
I was now supposed to have slightly over two megs of ram. Machine recognized 1.96 due to the onboard video borrowing from RAM. The machine was running faster by far and I was happy.I'll do another post now for second step - the vidcard
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I bought the ASUS ATI Radeon 3650. That unit had a lot of good reviews and ASUS is rated high or dependability and support.It came in a box as large as a small suitcase and was graphically colorful, including a large rendering of a gamer girl in some pretty racy attire. So when I looked it over at lunchtime and leaned it up against my recliner, my wife was interested in knowing if I was becoming a gamer and WTH is in that box!?! LOLafter I reminded her that I had ordered a video card to work with the software instead of buying a new PC, and pointed out that she already had a video card in her PC, she calm,ed down, tho still looking dubious...OK, so the case was still open on the PC. I have been careful all along about what I touch and don't touch, had blown all the dust out of the place, verified that fans were both working great, and that I had an extra four pin power hookup.Then when I went to lower the card into the slot, I saw that it was large enough with its heatsink and cooling fins that it didn't have elbow room to slide down there. Quick study showed me that the modem was in the way, so I moved it down the line further. The wires had been all bundled with ties, so I had to release those to get enough slack to get the modem back into a slot and to have room the fit the video card in. I secured them both with screws and did the startup thing again.PC recognized the vidcard but not the modem, so I powered down and moved the modem to another slot closer back up where things were tight for space between the two, but I had read something about some machines needing these cards to be in line in order.Powered back up and the PC could see both as new hardware and invited me to install the driver for the vidcard from the CD that came with it.Tried but no go. acted like the CD included might have been corrupted esp in the autorun.So I browsed into it and installed some stuff manually, and restarted.still no goTried again.Still no go, and it was time for dinner - company coming darling!so I left the patient with guts all over the operating table and hoped the cat would not be too curious...
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I hate it when a post gets too long, don't you?So after a nice dinner and visit with some in-laws, I got back to the machine with a fresh state of mind.
It usually helps me to step back when I have a problem and think a bit before plunging ahead blindly.by now I have figured that the CD is probably corrupt and I went online to see if I could find a good driver for this vidcard. I found one that purported to be right and spent 39 minutes downloading it, but when I clicked to install it, all that came up was a PDF in illegible characters!Remember I said something about patience for this stuff?I googled again and was led to a program called driver detective and downloaded it, registered and downloaded a driver. While that was happening I spent a little time on BT here.well, once that one was installed, the machine no longer recognized the vidcard anymore on startup.It was too late at night to call Paul and I had planned to wait for today since Sat would be his Sabbath anyways, so it was time to shut down and go to bed.over coffee this morning, I had a new idea. I removed the vidcard and the modem, and put them right back in again. Part of the basis for my reasoning is that with some hardware you have to install drivers and utilities first, thent he hardware, and with others you hook up the hardware first, then let Windows look for the drivers.I also figured by plugging it back in again, Windows might re-recognize it as new hardware...worth a shot, right?Well it worked! When I fired the machine back up, the screen stayed blank until I moved the monitor cord tot he new card and I saw that for some reason that windows had me in a limited safe mode. I went ahead had told it yes to find the new driver on CD and it did work just fine. Rebooted one more time and still all working. Had to adjust the monitor itself. It went to a higher resolution and I think I'll keep it there for a while. I notice that the refresh rate on my monitor had been automatically changed too, to a higher rateThen I went again to that driver detective program I had subscribed to and it reports that I have 14 drivers of various kinds all out of date and needing upgrades. so I have one of them downloading while I write all this.I have yet to put the machine case and all the other peripherals back together or to try Softplan, but I can tell things are much snappier and the display s finer than what it was.I think I am going to be pleased.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
That's good news, Pif! I found it to be a good feeling when I relaized that the guts of a PC were no longer Untouchable and not so mysterious but don't ask me about code and programming though.
Can you share the final cost of the upgrades?
I think the vidcard was $85 plus shipping, and the ram was about a hundred so two bills did it.I think I am going to get me a DVD reader/writer now. I had considered a separate USB one, but this is so easy....now that the mystique is gone, nothing in that case is safe from my grubby scarred up fingers...hand me that black tape, willya?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
>...hand me that black tape, willya?<
No tape handy, but how about a hammer? I have 3 different sizes here.
If there's space, install the DVD burner in a separate bay so you have 2 optical drives. They're pretty cheap now and maybe even upgrade the existing one to a faster reader or another burner identitical to the new one.
Yeah, I guess I can do one for 35-45 bucks. there is space for two more in the bays of this cabinet.I remember back when I had this one built that it was getting to be all the rage to have smaller units, but the advantages of the full size case allowed for upgrades like this.That was all theoretical then, but now I'm glad I went that way.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
when I bought my recent Dell cab size was the among the more critical features for me for expansion.
paul.....thanks for the play-by-playMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Not quite a Webinar, but I got to edit out the puzzled looks and four letter words
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
YAAAAAAY! If you remember from an earlier post having to do with computers - This is the ONLY thing where you can go though exactly the same steps and come up with a different outcome!
I'm glad you got it up and running. Video driver installations can be really rough, and downloading a new video driver that weighs in at 85MB can be a bear over dialup!
Now that your video card is in, look at your RAM on boot again to make sure your Motherboard Intel video card disabled itself. You should see 2048 RAM. If you don't you may have to get into the BIOS to disable it. wheeee.
Tu stultus esRebuilding my home in Cypress, CAAlso a CRX fanatic!
Look, just send me to my drawer. This whole talking-to-you thing is like double punishment.
Yep, only thing preventing me from having a truly enjoyable experience on this PC now is dial up speed oc connection.I do have the full RAM available after the new card was recognized. Forgot to mention that.I really do appreciate your nudging me and offering your help on this. There were mental barriers making me hesitate...a little like losiong your virginity, shy at first but once you get the general idea down...well, maybe not quite just like that, but...what other allusion could I make???when you finally learn how to drive a nail, it is so satisfying! LOL;)BTW, I did end up short by two screws. The vidcard came with none, the slot covers were snapouts, so I used some from the case, and have since rummaged around and found replacements with the right threading for the case.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I always knew that the moment you actually stopped to count, you'd find yourself short a screw. Or two.
;)
That's one thing everyone needs - an extra screw. Put it on your wish list.
Case screws are good ones to repurpose, I usually end up with only one screw per side, when they came equiped with three!
Congrats Paul...
You're now a DIYer!
Tu stultus esRebuilding my home in Cypress, CAAlso a CRX fanatic!
Look, just send me to my drawer. This whole talking-to-you thing is like double punishment.