Replies

1. 
   Turtleneck | May 15, 2003 08:34am | #1

   Lasers have their uses and can be a real time saver but for laying tile you can't beat a chalk line. What you need is a set of grid lines snapped on the floor, or the wall so that you will only apply adhesive to the sections that you will be tiling at the moment.

   A Laser that won't cut tile is of no use to you. <G>

   Save your money.

    Turtleneck

    

2. 
   Rugby | May 15, 2003 08:43am | #2

   The tile jobs (not many more than you've done) that I have done were before I got my rotary laser.  I could see my self using it for tile if that type job ever came up again.  The Tool Crib catalog has a couple of laser squares that look interesting for floor layout.  Another, the PLS2 shoots  crosshairs for plumb, level and square.  Thats the one I want to get next.

3. 
   andybuildz | May 15, 2003 11:47am | #3

   I'd love to get the PLS2 but not until my next big job.

   I do tons of tile work!

   A chalk line is all I'v eused so far in all my years but I always use a straight edge along the chaulk line and dark pencil over it cause chaulk dissapears to easily.

   YOu can start your thinset just before the chaulk and trowel away from it but when you have a series of grid lines it can be a bit of a hassel so to insure the lines stay there I pencil over em.

   I'd love to know if the PLS2 really works. In my mind it seems awesome but wondering if I'm just hullucinating.

   Be tripping

             Namaste

                         andy : )~

    

    

   In his first interview since the stroke, Ram Dass, 66, spoke with great difficulty about how his brush with death has changed his ideas about aging, and how the recent loss of two old friends, Timothy Leary and Allen Ginsberg, has convinced him that now, more than ever, is the time to ``Be Here Now.''

   http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM

1. 
   calvin | May 15, 2003 01:57pm | #4

   Andy, I may have mentioned this b/4.  You can spray clear coat the chalk lines to keep them visible throughout the job.  As far as the pls2 working for you......It produces self leveling/plumb line on the wall easily.  Likewise a straight line on the floor.  To use the square feature on the floor you need to hold the laser up in the air and project the square down to the floor.  You can clamp it to a ladder but I think one of those telescoping poles with it attached would work the best.  It'll mount to a camera tripod also.  The higher up you go, the longer the lines project.__________________________________________

   Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.

   http://www.quittintime.com/

1. 
   andybuildz | May 15, 2003 04:33pm | #6

   Calvin and Paul

               Thanks for confirming that. Ebay here I come!

   Also very cool idea about clear coating the chaulk line. Never heard that trick before.

    

    

   In his first interview since the stroke, Ram Dass, 66, spoke with great difficulty about how his brush with death has changed his ideas about aging, and how the recent loss of two old friends, Timothy Leary and Allen Ginsberg, has convinced him that now, more than ever, is the time to ``Be Here Now.''

   http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM

   Edited 5/15/2003 9:35:18 AM ET by Andy Clifford(Andybuildz)

1. 
   Scooter1 | May 15, 2003 07:47pm | #7

   I have never used a laser on a floor. Not ever. All I need is some straight edges, some 6 and 8 foot levels, and chalk lines. Never bothered to coat chaulk lines either. Ever tried to get a chaulk line off plywood? Fat chance. In fact, I don't use chaulk lines much. I prefer a Sharpie. Now, there, I trashed and dis'ed every prior poster. I feel better now.

   On walls, I wouldn't do one without a laser. Try it yourself. Make a mark anywhere on the wall, and using a level go around the room. When you get back to the mark, you'll be off by at least a quarter. I have never, ever seen anyone pass this test, and bet GC's, tile guys, and subs. Won about $50 over the years on this.

   So, you will need either a laser level or a water level. Water levels are cheap to make, and it takes two people to use. I don't own a laser, but rent them for layout days at $50 a day.

   So using either a water level or laser, set a level line at what your estimate is a grout line on the wall. It doesn't matter if you are off, but you do need to be level. Once you have the floor down, you can use a story stick to set the grout line on a portion of one wall, and just measure down from your level line on the rest of the walls.

   Good Luck.

   Regards,

   Boris

   "Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1934

1. 
   stefs3 | May 16, 2003 01:01am | #8

   My experience in tileing is to string lines. Layout the room, find the center, and string a line from one end to the other. Then do the same 90o to that. The line doesn't disappear, it doesn't get covered with mud, and it is higher than the tile, so you don't cover it up. If you have trouble keeping straight grout lines, this is your salvation.

   Stef

2. 
   JeffBuck | May 17, 2003 09:08am | #25

   Ditto the string line.

   Whole houses can be strung to perfection off a center hall main line with 90 deg off shoots into all the rooms....you can even off shoot 90's off those and tie the parallel runs together.

   With lotsa tile...something to work from everyday is the ideal. Something that stays square over nite and doesn't require resetting every morning.

   BTW...with tile....it's not the sq ft...it's the number of cuts that'll kill ya.

   until it's grout time...then it's the sq ft.

   JeffBuck Construction   Pittsburgh,PA

    Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite                  

3. 
   RichBeckman | May 16, 2003 02:04am | #10

   Boris,

   Although I am sure I would also fail your test, it reminds me of a wallpaper job I did once.

   I started in the upstairs hallway in a corner. Ran eight feet or so to an outside corner. Turn the corner and now on a wall that is eighteen feet high from the first floor to the ceiling. This wall runs to the front of the house with the cathedral ceiling sloping down. Maybe fifteen feet long. Turn an inside corner right and a six foot wall with the front door. Turn an inside corner right a couple of feet and then an outside corner right and up the curved staircase. At the top turn an outside corner to a two foot wall. An inside corner for a three foot wall. All the way down the hall maybe twenty feet. An inside corner to a three foot wall and meet where I started. I swear the match was within one half inch.

   Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good.

   Rich Beckman

   Another day, another tool.

4. 
   calvin | May 16, 2003 02:36am | #13

   Boris, you're a tile guy.  You could set a straight line by sight.  Give pity to the on occasion guys. 

   Billy, the spray is minimal wide to seal the line.  Have used this as a reference line when laying out framing in an existing bldg.  There, it is necessary to keep that which you're building to through the entire job.  The occasional flooring layout that should be preserved more than a day, also can benefit from it.  Have never had any problems with any adhesive or grout.  A good question tho, you should be sure b/4 proceeding on a costly project.  Today, had some problems with contact adhesive that wasn't right.  Maybe cold or too long on the shelf, should have gone for another can when I opened it up.  Definitely should have said   "#### glue",  packed back up and ran to the glue store.  On that pls 2, have used it more than I thought for a right line of reference.__________________________________________

   Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.

   http://www.quittintime.com/

5. 
   Scooter1 | May 16, 2003 03:11am | #15

   For floors, I am a low tech guy. Just an "A" square (a great big folding right triangle) and some straight edges and a Sharpie work for me.

   I don't keep thinset or grout more than 30 days. It is so cheap and you can never tell if it has "gone bad", so I just toss the stuff. Better start a job with fresh.

   Regards,

   Boris

   "Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1934

6. 
   TrimButcher | May 16, 2003 02:53am | #14

   Boris, you've always got good advice.  Your posts are very helpful, thanks.

   The only thing I can add is, I use a Zircon water level for any distance leveling.  1000 times better than a home-made water level.  You set one end to where you want; go to the other end of the hose and move it up or down until you hear a beep: you're level.  One man tool, that costs maybe $25.  A bit cheaper than a laser level...  :-)

   Oh, and I got the additional 100' hose for it...more accurate than most lasers at that distance, assuming the laser reaches that far, especially outdoors. 

   Regards,

   Tim Ruttan 

2. 
   Snort | May 16, 2003 01:12am | #9

   We spray lacquer on chalk lines for cabinet and various and sundry other layout lines we don't want erased, but I've never seen anybody do it for tile. I'd think it would affect the thinset bond...no problems with that? EliphIno!

1. 
   migraine | May 16, 2003 02:05am | #11

   Have any of you guys tried one of those Japanese ink lines?  I have one in orange and a perminent black ink one.  The thickness of the line is about 1/3 of a chaulk line.  Try it, you'll like it.

1. 
   Snort | May 16, 2003 02:13am | #12

   Haven't tried one. Got a link? EliphIno!

2. 
   migraine | May 16, 2003 03:16am | #16

   Try The Japan Woodworker.  I believe it's in Alameda California(Near San Francisco). I think that I bought mine at Tool Crib of the North, or Maybe one of the other major woodworking supply catalogues

3. 
   PhillGiles | May 16, 2003 04:28am | #17

   This has the potential to give "unusual" results if the floor is not flat and/or level..

   Phill Giles

   The Unionville Woodwright

   Unionville, Ontario

1. 
   calvin | May 16, 2003 04:35am | #18

   I'm sorry phil, what are you referring to?__________________________________________

   Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.

   http://www.quittintime.com/

1. 
   PhillGiles | May 17, 2003 08:59am | #24

   I have discovered first hand that there is one little wrinkle, if you'll pardon the pun, to using a laser to cast a virtual chalk line on a floor. The laser is perfectly plumb (in theory at least) and shoots a perfectly (theory again) straight line of light. If the floor is not flat and level, then the light will not cast a perfectly straight line on the floor, it is distorted by the differential in planes between the laser's virtual horizontal plane and the real plane of the floor. If you want to test this, cast the shadow of a pencil (strong direction light source, like a window or strong lamp required) on a piece of paper; tilt the paper around several ways and also let it gently curve - you'll see the shadow will distort. This is not that serious a problem when the laser is casting a light on a surface from almost right angles; it can become a real nusance when you try and shoot a low-angle beam, e.g. shooting a long distance across a floor from a relatively low-mounted laser.

   .

   Phill Giles

   The Unionville Woodwright

   Unionville, Ontario

   Edited 5/17/2003 2:01:41 AM ET by Phill Giles

2. 
   CarpenterPJE | May 15, 2003 03:25pm | #5

   Andy

   I have the PLS2 and have not used it for tile, Yet. I have used it for everything else. The PLS2 is a great tool & has alot of great uses. After using it for about 2 months now & doing alot of tile work in the past I know it will work great.

   Paul

4. 
   Clay | May 16, 2003 07:33am | #19

   I have to tell you guys ... I LOVE my "Gizmo" laser.  It gives me a level line and a plumb line.  It sets up in about a minute.  I have found it to be more accurate than the manufacturer claims.  Mine (an older model) cost about $200.00.  Here is a link to one source where they are selling for about $260.00 now.

   http://www.southern-tool.com/store/gizmos_laser_levels.html

   My Gizmo is one of the best tool investments that I ever made!  I have several other laser products but all put together they are far less useful than the Gizmo.  It is more accurate than a water level and quicker than anything else I ever saw.  I like being able to work without having to dance around string lines.  Chalk lines are okay but the Gizmo is faster, more accurate, easier to read, and can work around obstacles much more easily.

1. 
   andybuildz | May 16, 2003 11:52am | #20

   clay

        Why did you pick this laser out of all the others? Just curious.

   a 

    

   In his first interview since the stroke, Ram Dass, 66, spoke with great difficulty about how his brush with death has changed his ideas about aging, and how the recent loss of two old friends, Timothy Leary and Allen Ginsberg, has convinced him that now, more than ever, is the time to ``Be Here Now.''

   http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM

1. 
   Clay | May 17, 2003 08:26am | #22

   Well Andy; I was down at Lowe's looking at one (they no longer carry them) when the tool department manager came by (whom I know a little) and told me that he couldn't keep them in stock.  He said he had one right now though, and showed it to me.  I asked him how the people that were buying it liked them and he said that it was just about the most popular thing in his department.  Now that I have used this one for several years I know why.  I trusted him and I liked the looks of it, so I took it to work with me right then.  It has exceeded all my expectations.  I can't understand why Lowe's quit carrying them because everything else that they carry in that price range is JUNK.  You have to get into the $1,000.00 + range to get anywhere near the same sort of performance.  One of my friends (with whom I was working at the time) helped me layout a level elevation line around the perimeter of a big third story addition with his $600.00 + transit.  It took the two of us 40 minutes being very careful.  In ten minutes (by myself) I duplicated that layout while Tom watched.  The Gizmo line never varied more than 1/16" from the transit line.  We never used the transit again.

1. 
   Rugby | May 17, 2003 08:48am | #23

   Clay:  Question on laser mount.  What do you use?  Tripod, laser pole, somthing else?  I have the Laserjamb pole I use with my rotary, which I love.  Works slicker than water off a ducks back.

   Have been very close to getting a PLS2 but I think I'll check out the Gizmo before I buy.

   Rugby

1. 
   Clay | May 17, 2003 09:24am | #26

   It really depends on the job at hand.  I have a laser jamb pole which I like ... but on many simple layouts I will just set it on a ladder or window sill or on a countertop.  One basement where I installed a second kitchen (for the pool parties) I had some trouble with it.  I was trying to use my laser pole but had to shut down often because the tremors and aftershocks from the youngsters thundering from the couch to the floor would keep the thing in constant motion.

2. 
   Snort | May 16, 2003 03:20pm | #21

   Gizmo bro<G> I love mine, too. It does seem a lot like a toy compared to PSL, but it has definitly paid for itself a thousand times over.

   I was just bidding a cabinet installation, set the gizmo on a bucket, and in two min. find out the floor is an inch out of level. That little red sucker saved my butt.

   Andy, I used one on a commercial job, along with a Nikon transit, just 'cause I didn't really trust the toy self-leveling laser. It didn't take long to scratch the transit. The thing projects lines instead of dots (those have to be swiveled a lot, the gizmo just a little).

   I think the giz would less handy for laying out floor tile, but for interior carpentry, it's the cat's rear. EliphIno!