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Latest in Greenwashing

Hiker | Posted in Energy, Heating & Insulation on May 1, 2009 01:51am

It has been a week of green washing cynicism for me.

The local home depot and ABC Supply were touting the “Green” roof shingle.  I thought they were talking about those Energy Star shingle with the reflective granules.  Not quite

The GAF Elk three tab white shingle qualifies for the new tax rebates.  The cynic in me has reached a new level on green washing.

Our building inspector was telling me he had three swap outs of tankless heaters this week-removal of tankless heaters.  The heat exchangers got clodded with lime precipitation.  Our city gives significant rebates and are aggressively pushing these units in spite of the fact that our water supply is extremely hard and not well suited for these types of systems. 

Rant over.

Bruce

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  1. darrel | May 01, 2009 09:24pm | #1

    I've been toying with the idea of switching careers and going into the 'green' energy world in some form or another.

    Alas, I had a long talk with a friend of mine that had spent about a year doing pretty much that.

    His conclusion that 'green' energy is just 'energy' in terms of how the business is run...pay as little as you can for it while marking it up as high as you can while at the same time leveraging as much government subsidy out of it as you can.

    Which, I suppose is no surprise but does take a bit of the shine out of the idea.

    Alas, I think greenwashing is going to be the sludgy by product of green energy for a while. Snake oil is always prevalent in any new industry/market.

    1. ted | May 04, 2009 01:19am | #4

      "His conclusion that 'green' energy is just 'energy' in terms of how the business is run...pay as little as you can for it while marking it up as high as you can while at the same time leveraging as much government subsidy out of it as you can."Perhaps in the business environment where the only considerations are the immediate monetary costs of production and delivery. Traditional sources like coal, Natural gas, petroleum etc. are all heavily subsidized and if the public had to pay the real costs of extracting these energy sources they would probably be less competitive than other lower carbon producing methods.
      I agree that the "green" label is a marketing gimmick and a feel good thing for consumers. And hope there is a time when there isn't a "green" car but that every car made is environmentally sustainable and that is the norm. Same with houses, office buildings and the products we buy.

  2. TomT226 | May 02, 2009 12:35am | #2

    Got that right about the tankless.  I don't think they've sold two at the Bastrop HD in the last year.  Plumbers around here say you need a water softener if you want it to last two years...

     

  3. User avater
    Matt | May 04, 2009 12:59am | #3

    Re "Greenwashing" to be sure you are getting green materials purchase items that have been certified by a third party verifier.

  4. User avater
    BillHartmann | May 04, 2009 02:42am | #5

    "The local home depot and ABC Supply were touting the "Green" roof shingle. I thought they were talking about those Energy Star shingle with the reflective granules. Not quite.

    The GAF Elk three tab white shingle qualifies for the new tax rebates. The cynic in me has reached a new level on green washing."

    I don't understand do you have a problem with those Elk. If they qualify for the rebates then they they are suppose to be Energy Star rated.

    I want to look into those, but I right now don't have any idea of what percent that they reduce the heat build up (or reflectivity/emissivity)ratings are.

    .
    William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
    1. Hiker | May 04, 2009 02:53am | #6

      They are not the Energy Star shingles with the reflective granules-They are the same three tabs that have been installed for thirty years-Nothing green about them-Short life span-insignificant reduction in surface temperature.

      The cynicism has arisen in part to my perception of what lobby got to the congress to make this bill pass.  For example, I always put in the high quality double hungs-LowE usually with Argon.  Not a single window that I have been able to find meets the U value of .30. 

      THe next level is the rebate on HVAC system.  14 seer systems qualify for the rebate, yet I have been installing 20 seer systems for three years now. 

      There seems to be a complete disconnect on what threshold of efficiency gets pushed and frankly it pizzez me off-particularly since high quality windows do not get the rebates.

      Bruce

      1. mackzully | May 04, 2009 07:51pm | #8

        "THe next level is the rebate on HVAC system. 14 seer systems qualify for the rebate, yet I have been installing 20 seer systems for three years now. "I agree, but there are few HVAC companies that will right size an HVAC system with a Manual J and D (or whatever the duct sizing calc is). I don't care how efficient the unit is, if it's oversized, and hooked up to a poorly designed duct system, it's going to be worse. I think this is a form of greenwashing just as you think letting a 14 seer be eligible for rebate. I'm not saying anything about your business and your installs, I'm sure you're doing everything to maximize the efficiency of an already efficient unit. But selling people on the SEER rating then doing a poor install is worse than installing a lower rated SEER and doing an excellent install. When I was shopping for my HVAC system, I had 8 or 9 local companies come out to do an estimate. Only *one* did a Manual J, ask me about how many people will live in the building, what kind of insulation and glazing I have, what are the uses of each room, take down measements of every area, etc. The rest just said "looks like you need a 3ton unit" or "I'd put a 3.5 ton unit just to be sure that you have enough cooling". The Manual J result? 2 ton. And that is what I had installed. A coworker had his house renovated last year, and they ended up installing a separate unit for the addition they built. He came in one day and asked me if what his HVAC said made sense... Because they were putting in such an oversize unit (ISTR, a very expensive Carrier 19 SEER unit), the HVAC installer wanted to disable the second stage of the condensor!I guess my point is that there is a lot of "green" technology out there, but 90% of it is worthless because it's not spec'ed and installed right. To complain about 14 SEER units being eligible is besides the point, they should make a law that requires right sizing of equipment, because even then we'd be saving tons of energy with lower efficiency units.
        Z

        1. Hiker | May 04, 2009 08:39pm | #9

          I do not disagree with your comments about oversized and poorly installed units.  Our city requires Manual J on all new projects and ductblaster tests as well. 

          1. mackzully | May 04, 2009 09:21pm | #10

            That's great that your jurisdiction requires that... I wish they would require it here, but too much here functions purely on graft and corruption for a logical regulation like that to work. Z

        2. Doveguy | May 07, 2009 01:58am | #11

          Green is the new organic. Here is how it goes... You take a mature boring product and sell it as a green product. Now you can charge a premium price for it. It is superior to regular products because it shows how much you care for the environment. Remember caveat emptor or  "Let the buyer beware"

          Doveguy

           

        3. collarandhames | Jun 12, 2009 06:27am | #12

          Mac,

          I own a wartime (1945) story and a half.  I've done extensive air sealing,, and now I have condensation problems.  I want a HRV.  I've redone my ducting when I replace the orig. furnace to a 93% eff. gas furnace.  The old furnace took care of the air exchange via the chimney.  And thus the condensation problems.

          I'm happy to install my own HRV,, but am confused if I can tap into the existing cold air returns.  I'm happy to have imput.

          dave 

  5. ponytl | May 04, 2009 03:41am | #7

    it use to be SEX sold... i guess when it was safe....  and  anything turn'n green never went with sex...

    now Green sells...  kids are now "greenies" as a mom described her child to me....

    "she's a greenie"   yeah ok....

    i guess it's cool to have a green child...

    whatever bandwagon comes along... 

    p

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