Latex Paint additive discovery
I’ve been painting with latex semi-gloss this week, in hot weather.
Over the years latex paint has become thicker and thicker, supposedly to make it cover better using less of the expensive stuff, the pigment.
Another “advantage” of modern thick paint is that the manufacturer also makes it fast drying, a selling point for many people.
One problem that arises with fast drying, thick paint is that it doesn’t always flow very well…become a smooth finish soon after being applied.
Brush marks, even minor ones, on doors and trim are not acceptable to me. With a semi-gloss finish, brush marks really show up and even when they’re made consistent by careful feathering, the finish isn’t what I’m looking for.
According to the instructions on the can, thinning the paint isn’t an option so I decided to ask for advice at a professional paint store.
They suggested a product called Floetrol, an additive that retards drying, allowing the paint to flow better, producing a smooth finish.
I tried it, using one half the recommended amount, just to make sure that it didn’t screw up the paint’s ability to cover. It worked very nicely. It made the paint easier and faster to apply and the finish is smooth as any I’ve seen.
Floetrol is sold by the quart, at about $6/per.
Edited 7/25/2009 10:02 am by Hudson Valley Carpenter
Replies
Good stuff, especially for carps who can't paint!!
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"After the laws of Physics, everything else is opinion"
-Neil deGrasse Tyson
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If Pasta and Antipasta meet is it the end of the Universe???
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according to statistical analysis, "for some time now, bears apparently have been going to the bathroom in the woods."
Good stuff, especially for carps who can't paint!!
I agree that it's a good product for DIY painters but it's sold mainly to professionals.
I began life in the trades as an apprentice painter and have kept up my proficiency by doing all of my own painting since then. So I know how to take care of brushes and I only use the best.
That rules out any need for an additive due to lack of knowledge or skill, although I expect that Floetrol would be helpful to anyone who is trying to apply semi-gloss in hot weather.
In fact, it's best quality is that is speeds up the application because the paint is less like mud on the brush, more the consistency that paint should be.
Edited 7/25/2009 10:13 am by Hudson Valley Carpenter
I agree. Latex marketing is primarily aimed at home owners so making it thick helps them drip less.
And they don't want to apply two coats even if they choose a dark color. "There are three kinds of men: The one that learns by reading, the few who learn by observation and the rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."Will Rogers
I have been using Floetrol for years.... It does work well....
HVC,
Penetrol works the same for oil base. Both are good.
KK
Penetrol works the same for oil base. Both are good.
Thanks for that info.
Thanks to all for adding your experience and positive results with this product.
So in other words..
They've taken the floetrol out, and are selling it back to you at a cost of 24 dollars per gallon.
;o)
Somethin' like that. :-)
I talked to an old painter and he does not like airless spray painting
doors and trim etc
HE WANTS TO SEE SOME LIGHT BRUSH MARKS
No brush marks makes the newly painted door look like vinyl or something from a factory
No brush marks makes the newly painted door look like vinyl or something from a factory.
That may be true on new wood but not on previously painted trim and doors.
I'm sitting near the one door that I painted before looking for an additive. The finish looks slightly rough, even though I feathered each full stroke carefully, just after applying that brushful of paint. The paint simply didn't flow properly.
It's not that the finish isn't acceptable to most people, it just that it makes the door look it's age. That's not what I'm after in this house.
I don't believe that many clients want brush marks showing either.
Been using Floetrol and Penetrol for years when required.Regarding brush marks, some people request them for the reasons mentioned, they want it to look "hand crafted" or "real" and not plastic and fake. Several years ago when I was GCing part of the contract relating to paint on one house even had photos showing how the brush marks should look. Nothing terribly bizarre, it mostly had to do with the brush marks going in the direction of the grain of the wood.Some people despise brush marks because they look cheap and brush marks reflect a lack of quality in the work being done. Smooth at all costs.Some people just don't care. They just want it painted.Glad you discovered Floetrol, it's an excellent product.
Interesting to know that brush marks are sometimes requested.
It rolls out better with the Floetrol too.
.......heh.....heh.heh, ....Remodeling Contractor just on the other side of the Glass City
Yes, I rolled the laundry room with the same semi-gloss I was using for the trim, yesterday, after adding two onces of Floetrol to a half gallon. It definitely went on better and faster.
Edited 7/25/2009 7:11 pm by Hudson Valley Carpenter
I look at it like the tracks of a craftsman. A person with skill will leave marks but, they will
be deliberate and appropriate. Those look good to me, better even then some spray job.
Exactly.
I agree. I was helping fix a leak on one house on Kiawah Island (million+ dollar homes) and the doors were so perfectly painted that they looked like plastic. I knew the house was almost entirely trimmed with mahogany (painted mahogany btw) so I would guess as the doors were probably similar if not some other high end wood.
Cheaper by the gallon, Penetrol does the same thing for oil-based. Floetrol does seem to help stretch the paint a wee bit ( a good thing for me, I almost always end up either having almost a gal or a teaspoon left over).
Edited 7/25/2009 12:39 pm ET by rasconc
I have never heard of Floetrol being considered for pros.
I never heard about Floetrol until I spoke with a Benjamin Moore dealer about the flow problem I was having. I'm glad to hear the HD and others have it too, but I don't ask that kind of question there. Been down that road with HD's sales reps before.
HD's motto should be, "Leading the DIYer to the eternal abyss".
If you ask the pimply faced kid at HD, etc he will probably tell you about the latest Transformers movie, ask the retired geezer and he will tell you what he used for his enlarged prostate, Flomax.For those who have fought for it Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.
HA! Too true.
Just for giggles. When I started painting back in 1962 or so I was turned on to a new paint made by Dupont. It cleaned up with water which was all I needed to know and it was, of course, latex. The other thing that I liked was it's consistency which was more like mayonnaise than paint. You could stand a brush up in the middle of a full can. I liked it because it didn't drip like oil did. The downside was that it cost over $4.00 a gallon!
I liked it because it didn't drip like oil did.
And it didn't knock you out, the way that the solvents/vehicle in oil paint did in those days.
I remember rolling apartments while the boss did all the cutting. I'd be out of it within a half hour. But the oil based paint would cover in one coat, so that's what we used.
Fortunately I found another type of work before that stuff did any serious damage.
I worked in a photo lab while I was in the Army and like all military units we had to paint our own spaces. The Army paint was oil based and in another life had probably been used in chemical warfare. The fumes came off it in waves that you'd swear you could see and after a few minutes breathing the stuff maybe you could.We had lots of civilians lab employees who had to help and among them was a tiny Japanese America guy 1 year short of retirement. He shut himself into a 8 by 10 lab room and went to painting. An hour or so later someone noticed he wasn't around so we went looking for him. He was passed out on the floor of the room he was painting with the door closed. He was carried away in an ambulance and never came back to work. He had a lot of sick leave built up and when it ran out the other civilians chipped in theirs until he reached his retirement date. A crew of painters came in and finished the job. That old oil paint was wicked bad stuff.
>> Floetrol is sold by the quart, at about $6/per. <<
So, how much do you add to a gallon of paint?
The instructions recommend 8 oz. per gallon. Since a quart is 32 oz., that makes it relatively inexpensive at $1.50 per gallon.
I've used Floetrol and I keep it handy, but I've never used as much as 8 oz. per gallon. Probably more like half that much. And I only use it when I know that I'm going to have a problem with quick drying and keeping a wet edge. For example, painting a door by brush in a semi-gloss on a hot, dry day. Otherwise, I don't find any significant benefit to it.
So, how much do you add to a gallon of paint?
The instuctions on the container say two onces per quart. Not wanting to compromise the paint's ability to cover, I tried about half of that and got just the consistency I was looking for.
Hudson & Don:
Does it increase the possibility of runs and sags?
Someone above said latex paint is produced for the HO DIY market.... or something similar... Funny - here EVERY new construction under a $mil or maybe .75 $mil gets latex.
The Zinsser Tech Rep recommended Floetrol to me "off the record" when I was using 1-2-3 on extremely hot afternoons -- I couldn't keep my brush wet. Floetrol is also great for spraying latex primer or paint.
Does it increase the possibility of runs and sags?
Since I only use it where the paint is already drying too fast and even then, I use less than the recommended amount, I don't really know... but I haven't seen it happen.
Does it increase the possibility of runs and sags?
Nope. But that's partly experience and technique, I'd say.
Look, best thing to do is to get a quart of Floetrol, make a small mix using half the recommended amount, then try it out. If it doesn't work for you, pour your small mix back into the gallon can and forget it.