Replies

1. 
   Ian.D.Gilham. | Jul 10, 2001 01:07am | #1

   *
   Kevin,
   It would be most unusual if you have asbestos fibre in the backing plaster -- the common additive was cow hair.
   I wouldn't use any of it for fill -- and wear a good dust mask, it's a filthy job.

1. 
   Larry_Smith | Jul 10, 2001 01:22am | #2

   *Around here (and throughout the country, we're beginning to understand), worry about vermiculite insulation, not the plaster. A good number of older homes had vermiculite added to ceilings and walls. You can pretty much assume that that stuff is contaminated with asbestos (thanks to our infamous WR Grace Zonalite mine and mill in Libby, MT). I generally don't worry about "asbestos" (geologically speaking, it is a poorly defined term in a lot of products), but that Zonalite stuff is a proven killer. So, if there's no vermic., have at it with a good nuisance dust mask.

1. 
   bill_burns | Jul 10, 2001 04:19am | #3

   *kevin what do you mean by using lath and plaster for fill? to fill low ground area? if so, plaster is o.k., but wood lath is a no no.

1. 
   xJohn_Sprung | Jul 10, 2001 04:46am | #4

   *Kevin --Start by protecting the floor with something that you can shovel the rubble from easily -- old cheap paneling works great. Use a straight blade D-handle shovel to get between the plaster and the lath, and just scrape it down in big sheets. Do the bottom foot or so of the walls first, because they'll be inaccessible if you work top down. For the ceilings and walls above shoulder level, stand to one side and scrape at an angle so it won't fall on your head. Other than eye, nose, and mouth protection, that's the only safety concern. Shovel all the plaster out first, then rip down the lath. Like Bill says, lath is a no-no for fill, but you can tie it up in bundles and give it to your friends who have fireplaces to use for kindling.-- J.S.

1. 
   lonecat | Jul 10, 2001 06:14am | #5

   *Its also real good to have a big ass fan to put in a window. I've got an old belt drive box fan and I'd hate to bust plaster without it. This is about the dirtiest part of a renovation.

2. 
   Ralph_Wicklund | Jul 10, 2001 07:05am | #6

   *If you have central heat and air - TURN IT OFF!Even if you tent your work area, which is a good idea, you can't keep the dust you create where you create it if the air is moving toward the air return(s).Lonecats fan in the window - inside your tent if possible - is another winning idea.

3. 
   xJohn_Sprung | Jul 10, 2001 06:59pm | #7

   *The fan idea can have a downside in dense areas -- the dust you get rid of lands in the neighbors' places. I carry the plaster rubble out in buckets or a wheelbarrow, and wet it down to control dust before dumping it. That way I don't tick off the neighborhood.-- J.S.

4. 
   JeffCall | Jul 10, 2001 09:05pm | #8

   *Question about "vermiculite insulation"? I've got a 1909 house with about 1-2 of fine powder in the attic (under ~6" of cellulite stuff), is that vermiculite? if not what is it? I've been wearing a dust mask, but should I have more protection?.

5. 
   lonecat | Jul 11, 2001 06:25am | #9

   *That just helps get them ready for when you get the airless sprayer out to paint the fence!

6. 
   Ralph_Wicklund | Jul 11, 2001 06:29am | #10

   *That's right. With plaster dust all over everything, the overspray won't stick to your neighbors house or car - and that's a good thing.

7. 
   Norm_Kerr | Jul 11, 2001 06:16pm | #11

   *Jeff, if you are concerned you can get a face mask respirator at the hardware store with filters rated for asbestous. I found a company that specialized in major clean-up type jobs and they brought their truck-mounted vacuum cleaner (with 100cu ft bags) to suck all of it out.Then I could start over again in a clean attic space!Vermiculite is expanded mica, and it looks familiar to you if you do much gardening (it is added to potting soil all the time). Only a certain kind of vermiculite has the asbestous, most of it is fine, just dusty.

8. 
   Bill_Flather | Jul 11, 2001 06:55pm | #12

   *Seems to me that it was "Zonolite" vermiculite that has an asbestos content. The fan is a good idea, I use the cheap box fans you can get anywhere, figure the life of the motor will be seriously compromised, but they don't cost much. A bigger belt-driven fan lonecat describes would be nice. Crack open the door across the room for air intake and don't open windows on the same side of the house. The 150 yr-old plaster I have removed from old houses here in central PA is composed of sand, clay, lime and horse-hair and I have used as fill with no problem.

9. 
   Scooter_ | Jul 11, 2001 07:23pm | #13

   *I do a lot of renovation, and here are my tips:1. Sheets and cloth mats over the floor first. Then the ubiquitous blue tarp . Smaller 6x6 size near the area of demo.2. Score an area of about 4x4 with a carbide knife, razor knife or my personal favorite, a cordless circular saw set at a very low depth.3. Spray the score lines with water or sponge it, to keep dust down.4. Whack the stuff off onto tarps, then dump the tarps in 50 gal trash bins, or on plywood slides out the window to your dumpster.5. I continually spray the area to keep dust down.6. I use good quality masks, not the cheapo paper types. I change filters a couple times a day. I wear long sleve shirts bandanas for neck protection, and another bandana for the head. I'll work like hell for an hour, and have to take 15 min to get a breath of clean air. Get as much help as you can, and 2-3 guys in a room reduces the time you spend in that dusty environment, and you'll need help carting the crap out to the dumpster. I dump it all, lathe and plaster in the same dumpster, unless some fool wants the lathe.7. Out here in SoCal, we see hemp fibers, no asbestos. I'll run an electrical sensor over the area, because I often find an electrician has placed some cable into the plaster for convenience. My circular saw doesn't like bcx cable very much.

10. 
    Kevin_Midgley | Jul 13, 2001 04:06am | #14

    *Yes, I would fill in some of the hole that's my backyard. So...plaster is ok? Lath is not? why not? I'm actually too cheap to want to pay to haul it to the dump myself if I don't have to - hey this site is a great help!

11. 
    Jon_Blakemore | Jul 13, 2001 05:43am | #15

    *Kevin, As a rule, you never want wood below grade. If you are in the termite regions, this will attract them, which you never want to do. Also, as it decomposes, the area could settle a great deal depending on the amount of wood below grade.Jon

12. 
    JohnD_ | Jul 13, 2001 11:49pm | #16

    *Plaster is inorganic, and will not rot away.Wood IS organic, and will rot away--eventually. As it rots, it gets smaller, and you have another hole (this time a depression) where the first one was.Worse--you forget about it and build something above it. The ground collapses and the structure follows it. And, if you sell the house and don't tell the new owner, I am not sure about these new disclosure laws, but it might prove "interesting" for you.

13. 
    Rein_Taul | Jul 14, 2001 01:32am | #17

    *Lathe is great kindling for the stove/FP. It is also easier to scoop up the plaster with no lathe in it.My approach has been to protect everything that needs to be (especially myself), then knock the plaster off the lathe with a small sledge. Scoop the plaster up with a shovel into the refuse container of your choice.Take a break.When the dust settles, go back and peel the lathe off and put it in the woodpile.Maybe I'm a genius, maybe not - BUT IT IS STILL AN UGLY JOB!

2. 
   Kevin_Midgley | Jul 14, 2001 01:32am | #18

   *
   What are the safety concerns when removing lath and plaster? Obviously eyewear and a dust mask are needed. Is there a way to tell if there is asbestos in the mix? (I've been told this was sometimes done?) Is it safe to use the lath for fill? and the plaster? The house is about 100 years old. The walls weren't painted, just papered, so I assume lead is not an issue...