Layout of Hardwood Floor in a Hallway
I am installing hardwood 3/4″, pre-finished, oak flooring in a second floor hallway and have a question about layout.
The hallway is |___| shape with one leg being about 75″ long, the bottom about 15′ long and the other leg about 12′. The stairs come up on the short leg, the 15′ section parallels the open stairway. I will lay the strips lengthways on the longer bottom leg and I’m not sure what to do about the other two areas. What is the usual way to align the flooring on these two legs? If I lay the floor in the same direction, as the 15′ section, then I end up with very short strips (the hallway is about 40″ wide) in the other two areas . It might not look too bad on the short leg but it seems like it would look pretty poor on the longer leg. Should the flooring follow the long dimension of each leg? If so, how should I handle the corners? I’m thinking a herringbone type layout. Does that make sense? If so, anything to watch out for on the layout?
Thanks,
George
Replies
Good question.
In my minds eye, I'm thinkin' it would work best if all of the flooring ran in the same direction, regardless of twists and turns of the path.
Then again, running them lengthwise in each section might give it more flow. I would just be concerned that you herringbone transitions might look too busy in such small spaces.
Beware the bikini clad female.
She may be interpreted as offensive.
I would run the flooring all the same direction, parallel to the long section. I think of the area in that instance as one area with a hole in it for the staircase, not as three distinct areas.
Steve
I'm with Steve."run the flooring all the same direction, parallel to the long section."
Rich Beckman
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Wow, 3 out of 3. That's not the answer I was expecting but ok. It is certainly a lot simpler to install....simple is good. I laid the herringbone out on sketchup and it did look kind of overwhelming visually.
Ok, now I have another question. the stairs are carpeted and, after the floor installation, I am going to have them redone with with hardwood (that's another note that is coming). When I lay the 3-1/4" floor, around the second floor stairwell I am going to put a wider border. mitered at the corners. The first thing I need to do is to cut the plywood subfloor, which overhangs the stairwell by about an inch, back flush with the stirwell walls and first riser. When I install the border, how much should it overhang the first finished riser, assuming that the riser will be 3/4 inch?
George
George,Where the border overhangs the top riser is essentially your last tread, so it should be whatever your tread overhang for the staircase is. That is governed by code for a number of attributes. In NY it's no less than 3/4, but no greater than 1 1/4". Most important is that it's the same as the rest of the treads though, so it doesn't create a trip or a stumble.Here's NY code:R314.2.1 Profile. The radius of curvature at the leading edge
of the tread shall be no greater than 9/16 inch (14.3 mm).
A nosing not less than 3/4 inch (19.1 mm) but not more than
11/4 inches (32 mm) shall be provided on stairways with sol-
id risers. The greatest nosing projection shall not exceed the
smallest nosing projection by more than 3/8 inch (9.5 mm)
between two stories, including the nosing at the level of
floors and landings. Beveling of nosing shall not exceed
1 /2 inch (12.7 mm).Steve
When I lay the 3-1/4" floor, around the second floor stairwell I am going to put a wider border. mitered at the corners.
They sell premade nosing (bullnose) available in various hardwoods. In these parts, it is typically notched to accept a skirtboard or stair riser. Set your trim pieces (1 X ?)around the opening and install your nosings. The nosings are made to accept a small cove moulding and still give you a slight overhang.
Beware the bikini clad female.
She may be interpreted as offensive.
I looked at the nosing when I was selecting the flooring. The look I want on the stairwell is about a 6" trim all around. The flooring strips are 3-1/4", and the nosing only comes in 2-1/4". Rather than have a joint line where the nosing connects, what I will probably do is make my own 6" flooring pieces for around the stairwell. I'll bullnose the overhanging edge and rabbet the edge to accept the flooring. I'm planning on waiting until I get the stair quotes and can talk to the carpenter about what they would need for the last riser. That way I can dado the trim piece to accept the riser.
Does it matter if I lay the floor starting at the stairwell side or from the opposite wall? I'm thinking that if I start from the stairwell I keep any face nailing to a minimum but maintaning parallel to the opposite wall might be harder.
George
I'm planning on waiting until I get the stair quotes and can talk to the carpenter about what they would need for the last riser. That way I can dado the trim piece to accept the riser.
A concern I would have, is how square to the opening your stairs are going to install. I don't know what your timeline for the project is, and whether or not you can hold off on the flooring....but you may want to wait until after the stairs have been installed. If you install the flooring..square and parallel to the walls...and your stairs end up out of square to the hallway, you are going to see this where the two meet.
Easier to hide the imperfections of framing elsewhere.
What I like to do....and did on my own home....is to set the stairs and square off of them. I snapped a line parallel to the staircase down the center of hall, and worked off of that, laying my flooring in both directions. While flooring is not terribly square to walls, this imperfection is lost under base mouldings rather than staring me in the face at the top of the stairs.
Here's a sketch to help clarify....
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
Pp, Qq
Got a question on the stairway. When an existing stairway is converted from carpeted to hardwood treads and risers, what is the extent of the demo that has to be done? Can the new components use the existing stringers or does all the underlying framework also have to be replaced ( I expect the answer is going to be the always helpful, "depends" :-) ) The underside of the stairway I am going to have done also serves as the base for the cellar stairway ceiling. I want to be prepared for just how big a job this could turn out to be. If the existing stair framing stays the same then the alignment should stay the same.....right?
In any case, it does sound like a good idea to wait for the stairs to do the hall.
Here are some pictures of the existing stairs.
George
Are you certain that the existing stair treads are not hardwood?
Certainly appear to be more than just a "basic" set that had been built specifically to be carpeted.
As to how involved a job....as you said..."it depends". If the stringers and risers are of sound condition, it may be possible to remove and replace only the treads. If so, it shouldn't affect (other than some repairable plaster cracks) the cieling below.
Not necessarily an easy job though..and one in which replacing entirely might not be that much more expensive. And by replacing the entire unit, you would be sure of the finished products integrity. Replacing treads only (in place) may lead to squeaks and creaks down the road.
Have you priced it out both ways?
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
Pp, Qq
"Are you certain that the existing stair treads are not hardwood?"
Wouldn't that be nice. No I'm not sure. It is a really solid stairway. No quotes yet. Right now I'm in the middle of renovating a room off the hallway and laying a new hardwood floor there. In order to do the hall, I need to finish the room so I can get all the #### in the hallway that was in the room back in the room and out of the hallway. The hall floor will be a continuation of that room's floor.
I'm thinking that I'll wait on quotes until I can pull the carpet of the stairs so whoever does the stairs can see what they are dealing with. Then again, there's really no reason, other then aesthetics, that I can't pull the carpet off the stairs now.
George
I'm still trying to decide how to lay out the hall floor so I did some layouts on Sketrch-up, showing where the room doors and stairs are. The stairs aren't perfect but good enough to give the idea. The problem with the herringbone corners is that the leg of the hall at the top of the stairs is narrower than the adjoining leg so you end up with a partial pattern on one side. Laying the floor out all in the same orientation just doesn't look right to me. I think the pattern I like best is running the long leg and then running the boards on the long dimension on the other legs off a line at the stairwell trim The problem with that is the change in direction occurs right in front of the master bedroom door. What do you guys think?
George
George,That's not how I pictured it from your description. You are right...all running the same direction looks wrong with that longer run around the corner. Changing direction in front of the MBR door is bad too.The other thing you might think about is combining the Rt. angle pattern and the straight pattern...use the right angle pattern for the two longer sections of hall, but don't change direction when you go around the corner in front of the MBR door. Might or might not look funny.I could live with the uneven herringbone. But it is also possible to tweak the flooring so the herringbone comes out even at the corner. You have to shrink the width of the boards on the narrow side so that it takes the same number of boards to go across as on the wider side. The resulting seam is not 45 degrees, rather it is a line from corner to corner, whatever that winds up being, but you will never see it. If you've got a tounge and groove router set, it's not that hard to do. I had to do it on a porch once.Steve
As I don't have your hall dimensions, or alotta time (I'm headed out to see an old buddy), I can't break it down to scale for you and figure out exactly where it should run.....but maybe a border of some sort can be used to keep the varying dimensions aesthetically pleasing.
Here's a quick sketch....sorry about the repair I had to make at the top of the stairs. I couldn't find the exact stain you used....but I'm hoping with time that it blends in.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
Pp, Qq
George,
My 2 cents worth, the floor should run parallel to the treads, so as you arrive at the top of the stairs the flooring runs parallel to treads, maintain this orientation all the way around the hall. Make sure you install your landing bull nose before you lay the floor. Do a layout first, so you don't end up with a funky sized piece at the wall or next to the landing bull nose, in other words, adjust the width of your bull nose piece to accomodate the circumstances.
neither of the options you show use this layout. I think it will look the best.
Geoff
Thanks, there's a lot of good suggestions here. Interesting thought about ripping the flooring on the short leg. I'll play with it in sketch-up, but, the flooring is 3-1/4" and it looks like I'd have to take almost 5/8" off of each strip to make it work. I think that makes it too narrow. The hallway really isn't that wide so I'm afraid a border would be a litttle too much, and I like the look of the plain floor. I'm really leaning towards just doing the herringbone and accept the extra boards. Overall, I think that has the least impact...that and the great and powerful Oz (wife) likes that pattern. There's also the potted plant in the corner option to hide layout :-). I just want to make sure I don't end up with one of those "what the $#^#% were they thinking when they did this" results. I've run into a couple of those that I had to fix.
George
in our last two houses, with hardwood 60 year old oak changes directions when the hallway changes direction, so that the wood lengths run parrallel with the hall.
Ravz,
How were the corners done and how wide were the hallways?
George