I WOULD LIKE TO TALKTO ANYONE WHO HAS READ OR IS USING “THE LEAD CARPENTER” SYSTEM IN THEIR BUSSINESS
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Replies
Is that the book published by nahb--"Lead Carpenter Handbook"(?)? If it is I borrowed a previous employer's and read through it to give feedback on how well it would work for our operations. I almost wrote a book critique, but settled on copious notes in the margins for time reasons.
Basically I thought the book is long on hype and short on anything new. What it is describing is essentially a compentent job forman that works well with clients and is somewhat financially accountable for the building decisions he makes. That's nothing new, despite claims to the contrary.
Every job function listed for the lead is handled by someone in every organization. What the lead carpenter idea is intended to accomplish is pushing decisions farther down the totem pole. Contractors who can let go of that degree of control have gone to job foreman with job responsibilites and control ranging from mild to wild.
When the author seemed to be defining a specific range of authority that must be used for a lead program to function well, a little reality slipped in and he admits that the amount of autonomy leads should get is dependent on many things unique to each business and there are no cut and dried rules that have to be followed.
The anedotal stories given as evidence to support the validity of the lead carpenter concept are so much not cause-and-effect that they did little to convince me of anything, other than the author had business examples taken completely out of context with very little supportive "beef."
Do I think it's a good idea--you bet...sort of. Can most contractors change the way they are doing business and truely deligate many of the essential functions of construction--not likely. If you are a contractor making great strides to decentralize your business, this is then a good book to show some options of how others have done just that to one extent or another.
Most senior carpenters have been kept so far away from the nitty gritty profit-loss side of a balance sheet that they aren't in a good position to quickly start making these decisions. Those who are currently good at this have either given up contracting and gone to an hourly position or run a number of side jobs each year and are likely conditates for going out on their own. Why would a senior carpenter who likes to do those things required to run a business, choose to work for someone else for less money instead of starting his own company?
Along other lines, I also once worked for a contractor who was an instructor of the lead carpenter certification program. Like so many others, he talked a good game, but could never let go of the control necessary to make it anything more than a meaningless lable.
Personally, the idea is sound, has a proven track record given the right people and right approach, but is not going to revolutionize the construction industry. It would be much better for most crews to focus on good deligation practices and fostering leadership skills at all levels.
Is this the type of information you're looking for?
Cheers,
Don
Well said Don. I tried to implement lead carpenter system and it does not work. A guy smart enough to be all that doesn't work for someone else.
I don't agree with that Shellbuilder.
Using lead carpenters does in fact work. It's just hard to find the right mix of a guy to do that particular job.
Way back sometime in the eighties, I did a stint as a lead carpenter for a contractor. It worked perfectly. I only lasted about 2 years because I wasn't interested in the type of work they did. We were doing tenant renovations (metal studs/ drywall and trim) with a sprinkling of heavy industrial contracting. We had three different lead carpenters. One guy specialized in the heavy stuff, and we had two commercial leads, one of which was me. Anything that came up in the residential field, I did.
Your first argument will be to say that I only lasted two years, but thats only half the story. The other two leads had been there for 15 years before I got there and one of them is still there today. I'm sure the older guy is retired now, but I know for a fact that he was never going to go anywhere else.
We are all guilty of imposing our thoughts on others. I think that is called projection by the pysche guys. We project that no one would be a lead because we wouldn't but that's not true. There are a lot of guys out there that would appreciate a good paying job that is secure and the lead carpenter style construction firms can provide just that.
blue
I am a lead carpenter for a mid sized company i love the job.I get payed well with some small perks witch iis just enough to keep me around do very little side work as not to burn my self out for my payer
i figure you keep a good lead happy and they will stick around
as for it working I can run three jobs and still put on my tool pouch and get a day's work done . takes alot of pressure off the boss and he can price and look at other job's >Somtimes i even wright and hand out pay checkes depending on how far we work from the office .And that work's very well cuz i wait till late friday afternoon to hand them out
but i take ten minutes every hour to check on thing's
So i figure you give your lead lot's of information hand him over the job or the baton so to speak let him deal with the sub's client's ect...Let him or her call you if ther is a prb and the job goes well .But before this system will work you must be willing to give the information required. i worked for a company for 2 month's as a lead had just enough information to make the other trades unhappy the job went slower and the moral was low .i think i could answer many questions for if need be
I agree with a loty of what shellbuilder said, and some of what Blue says..
Most (but not all) times a contractor who is trying to implement the LC system is trying to delegate the less desirable aspects of his job to a Carp/foreman who already is handling all the shid that gets missed.
to let a carp make this transition you need to "shore him up from below"
i.e. hire some competant carpenters that can handle the stuff he will be too busy to give proper attention to.
And you need to give him the proper tools he needs from above like : respect, authority, compensation and information (ACCURATE INFORMATION)
Sure there are a few guys out there who can handle the gamut of work/management/BS and still produce...
they are the ones with $hitty or no family life and substance abuse problems or whatever else that can be neglected in thier personal life...
Any one who is thinking about the LC program sould take a realistic look at what thier potential candidates ALREADY do, and try to make informewd decisions about how they will help the guy/gal with the additional workload and subsequent stress.
To me personally, the LC sytem is sort of a catch 22.
I can handle the lead part well enough if I have some Good carps working with me.
and I can handle the carp part if I have someone giving me effective guidance.
So I would need to find a balance, BUT...
I WANT to do the carpentry part!!!
I don't want to give up the stuff I love about being a carpenter to have more:stress, headaches and BS for a couple of bucks an hour!!!
Contractors always seem to be looking for a cheap way out...
Give the best carp a boatload more responsibility so I can golf more...
But don't pay him any more cause how will I make my boat payment???
You get what you work for!!
Mr. T.
Maybe Christmas doesn't come from a store...
Maybe Christmas means a little bit more...
Then he got the strength of ten Grinches, plus two!!!
68085.6 in reply to 68085.5
I agree with a loty of what shellbuilder said, and some of what Blue says..
Most (but not all) times a contractor who is trying to implement the LC system is trying to delegate the less desirable aspects of his job to a Carp/foreman who already is handling all the shid that gets missed.
to let a carp make this transition you need to "shore him up from below"
i.e. hire some competant carpenters that can handle the stuff he will be too busy to give proper attention to.
And you need to give him the proper tools he needs from above like : respect, authority, compensation and information (ACCURATE INFORMATION)
Sure there are a few guys out there who can handle the gamut of work/management/BS and still produce...
they are the ones with $hitty or no family life and substance abuse problems or whatever else that can be neglected in thier personal life...
Any one who is thinking about the LC program sould take a realistic look at what thier potential candidates ALREADY do, and try to make informewd decisions about how they will help the guy/gal with the additional workload and subsequent stress.
To me personally, the LC sytem is sort of a catch 22.
I can handle the lead part well enough if I have some Good carps working with me.
and I can handle the carp part if I have someone giving me effective guidance.
So I would need to find a balance, BUT...
I WANT to do the carpentry part!!!
I don't want to give up the stuff I love about being a carpenter to have more:stress, headaches and BS for a couple of bucks an hour!!!
Contractors always seem to be looking for a cheap way out...
Give the best carp a boatload more responsibility so I can golf more...
But don't pay him any more cause how will I make my boat payment???
I'm not understanding this part of your post Mr T.
The lead carpenter idea is not an idea designed to load up the carpenters with more work for less pay. You seem to be drawing some far fetched conclusions.
The lead carpenter system puts one carpenter on remodeling job from the beginning to the end. It basically merges the duties of the onsite superintendent with the carpenter. It doesn't have to transfer EVERY management job to the carpenter, but it does give the subcontractors a go to guy onsite, every day that they are there.
When I did the lead work in tenant renovations, I worked all day and rarely had to stop to do any "paperwork" or decision making. I'd be installing cabinets and the electricians would be in another room installing switches and outlets. The accoustical ceiling guys would come in and do their thing. I'd say "hi' but that was about it. If a problem of logistics occurred, they would discuss it with me, but often the trades discussed it with themselves and solved things themselves directly. We all got along quite well.
Probably my most important duty was to be there at 7am to unlock the door. I was there every day and I was never late. No one checked on me, but I'm quite sure the owners would have been extremely dissappointed to find out that I was not there on time. That potentially could have peeved the subs who would have to stand around till the key showed up.
I did renovate one house on a lake while I was with them. It was a total gut, tear off the roof, put a second story on, put foundations in: more work than bulldozing and building it new. I did all the rough frame alone and had a little help to set the roof members (conventional). I did all the trim ( I was crazy back in those days). The lead carpenter system worked fine. I was there every day and if a sub trade showed up, I was alwasy there to answer questions. That's the most important feature of the lead carpenter system.
blue
Devil says.......I did renovate one house on a lake while I was with them.
Ok, There is a lot more responsibilitry here as a lead inside someone's house. that is why i wanted to hear what anybody had to say about residential remodelers lead carpenter system. I've read Faller's book, Stoppleworth's book and supposedly both were read by every lead. The fact is that if you turn a carpenter into a lead, then you are training him to start his own business and you can count on his employment with you to be short lived. First and foremost in residential stick and brick remodeling is good work quickly and keep a clean jobsite. Still want to hear from someone in the stick and brick side that is utilizing this system and how much of faller or walts stuff they are doing.
The fact is that if you turn a carpenter into a lead, then you are training him to start his own business and you can count on his employment with you to be short lived.
I don't agree. I don't agree at all. I used to think like that too.
Will some leads start their own business? Of course. Those types of guys probably were going to start their own business anyways, whether you trained them to be a lead or not.
Training leads does not train them to be in business. It's nothing more than delegating and allowing another carpenter to take ownership of the job. That's a big step for most carpenters and most don't know how to do it, and they don't do it well. I certainly wasn't an expert on doing this, but I'd be great (well maybe not great, but I'd certainly make an effort) at it today.
In my particular case, I had already went through some growing pains as a young carpenter first starting out in business. I suffered burnout and decided to take a job. One of my clients immediately hired me to be a "lead". I was destined to be back on my own but the GC rode me for whatever he could. It was profitable for him and it helped me to get back on my feet financially and emotionally. But, that particular company still kept going using the lead system very effectively. The last I heard, one of the independent carpenter subcontractors that we'd occasionally pull in for extra help was added as a lead after I left.
The key to not losing all your leads is to put the right kind of guy in there. There are different types of carpenters. Some like to lead. Some like to follow. Some like to have their noses in everybodys business. Some wouldn't look up from their work if a fire alarm was sounding. Choosing the right guy to train as a lead is key and critical.
Not everyone is cut out for owning their own business. There are many carpenters, especially the older ones that know that they suck as selling and doing business and if you trained them, you'd never have to worry about them going on their own in business.
blue
"... and allowing another carpenter to take ownership of the job. "
Well said. Key point.
As carpenters we've all felt ownership of projects at one time or another and how much that effects our actions in positive ways...and we've had it slip away and know what that is like as well.
Blooo
this: http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=68085.13 is what I mean.
2-3 pages of job description
one line saying you are responsible for carpentry.
You are no longer a carpenter, you are a supervisor who gets to wear a tool belt.
Having "Carpenter" in the title is just false advertising...
trying to get a good carp to try and take on stuff he doesn't really want to do.
Money grubbing, bottom line, short term profit types, look at "Lead Carpenter" and all they see is that they can get a working foreman to take on more responsibility without hiring a project manager who knows his stuff.(read: wants a GOOD wage)
From your story, it sounds like you had the support you needed.
So it (LC) worked well.
but the majority of contractors out there are not willing to hire the additional managers and carpenters it takes to run the LC program the RIGHT way.
You said you were crazy back then...
well NOW you want someone else to be crazy in your place???
Being a remodeling carpenter is a difficult enough full time job.
and being a project manager is also a demanding full time job.
you combine the Two into one title and a LOT of $hit will get neglected unless you give support from both sides.
a little story comes to mind:
Long long ago, ten years give or take...
I was the "Lead" on a residential fire job.
towards the end I had to finish out the stairs.
well while doing all the "other" duties of my job, I managed to get TWO treads in place in one day.
well I hence became known as "two-step" to the guys.
Have my well developed sense of humor, I was able to laugh at myself and we all managed to finish the house without bloodshed.
But afterwards Boss-a$$hole called me into his office to biatch about how long the job was taking.
He could not understand how a stairway could take more than a week.
Well try as I might to explain that stairs were not all I was doing he couldn't see how I wasn't slacking off.
needles to say I found a another job soon after...
but the moral of the story is...
one man can only do one job;
or as Yoda would say: Can do only one job, one man can.
I hope I have enlighten you young Padawan...
May the Schwartz be with you...
Mr. T.
Maybe Christmas doesn't come from a store...
Maybe Christmas means a little bit more...
Then he got the strength of ten Grinches, plus two!!!
T,Why do you assume that all those who desire to implement a new system are focused on exploitation?Surely, some business owners are only concerned about squeezing the last nickel out of every one that the come in to contact with, but that's not always the case.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
I didn't say "All"
Mr. T.
Maybe Christmas doesn't come from a store...
Maybe Christmas means a little bit more...
Then he got the strength of ten Grinches, plus two!!!
Mr T.,You're right, you did not say "all". My apologies for not reading carefully enough.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Jon,
I'm sure there are many good outcomes with this system.
But I felt the need to play "devils advocate".
Having experienced twice, how this can go bad....
this is the one place where I feel that contractor types will listen to carpenter types without poo-pooing our opinions.
('cept Buck, he knows I'm just a whiner)
Mr. T.
Maybe Christmas doesn't come from a store...
Maybe Christmas means a little bit more...
Then he got the strength of ten Grinches, plus two!!!
Mr T, I couldn't manage to read that entire description. It was too long and rather condescending.
but the majority of contractors out there are not willing to hire the additional managers and carpenters it takes to run the LC program the RIGHT way.
I don't know where your're drawing that conclusion. I also don't know what "additional managers" would be needed.
In my case, I worked for a GC that had two primary partners. One of the guy did the heavy construction (excavating, foundations, etc.) the other did primarily tenant renovations in commercial buildings. There was office staff, payroll lady and assistant.
Mort, the guy that supervised me did all the selling, estimating, permit running, etc. We used all subcontractors. I normally was the only "employee" on the job. I wore tools all day. Mort called all the subs to schedule them. Once the job started, he'd check in (he'd appear in person, physically walk in smiling and happy) and ask me when I'd be ready for the plumber, electrician, etc. Every day, we'd discuss who could come in and do whatever. He'd walk out with that information and presto, the trades would show up.
If Mort didn't do that, he wouldn't have had anything to do besides sell! He would have been a very bored man. As it was, he only had a very small amount of work to do anyways! Ordering the materials from the list I game him was only a five minute job. Calling the other trades was another five minutes. The real time was spent meeting with architects and suppliers and those duties occurred weeks before I showed up with my tools on.
I think we all know the drill.
I think everyone is trying to make a bigger deal out of this lead carpenter thing than what it really is.
Yes Mort made money off me just like he made money off every other trade. I made good money with him. In those days, I think I'd collect bonus checks at the end of the year for 5k or so. That wasn't bad cash in the 80's, especially since I made decent money every week. I appreciated him and he appreciated me. We were good for one another.
I think the idea that every 50k remodeling job needs an owner and a project manager and a lead carpenter and carpenters is a bit farfetched. That's the type of thinking that puts small contractors out of business. Small construction firms don't need multiple layers of management. When the corporate mentality creeps in and no one wants to do the acutal construction, the system is doomed to fail.
You said you were crazy back then...
well NOW you want someone else to be crazy in your place???
When I said I was crazy, I meant I was crazy because I did both ends of the carpenter; rough and finish. To me, that's crazy!
blue
Blue Devil,
You have a lot to say about the LC system. I assume you own a remodeling business and the system has been implemented by you and it works satisfactorily. The original question was about who was using and how well it worked. As with the original poster I look forward to comments from remodeling business owners, surely there are some here.
Edited 1/15/2006 9:02 am ET by shellbuilder
Sorry for speaking up Shellbuilder.
No i'm not a remodeler that uses the system. I did work in a successful system though, and I'm sorry that you couldn't figure out how to implement it.
I have a feeling that you are too much of a control freak to successfully implement a LC system. I get that feeling because your last post to me is basically trying to stifle my contribution. I don't think Mort, my GC friend that ran a successful LC system his entire life would ever try to stifle anyone. He was always a very good listener and conversationalist.
blue
Sorry for speaking up Shellbuilder.
No problem, when you make that leap from employee to GC let me know how the lead system works for you "in the business" side of things
Is it really possible to justify the expense of a lead carpenter (employee) on every remodeling job? I can see employing a lead for very large jobs, but not on an every day basis. Obviously, the remodeling business requires taking on jobs that run from small to large and when they are running simultaneously, the smaller jobs take a loss with the lead while the larger jobs can justify the lead. Unless you take on all large jobs (which never usually happens), why would you want to employ a lead carpenter full time?
The CM
on the subject of LC.... blue is the owner of a framing contractor business, but he did some time in the trenches as he described..
mostly , i agree with blue's take on LC... it works well if you put the right guys in the slot..
put the wrong guys in the slot..
or don't support them.. and it won't work
one of my competitors uses the LC system very well, but he's had his ups & downs just like the rest of us.
personally, i try to make our operation fit the employees we have, trying to upgrade them and develop their full potential.. i would say this
if you want to run an LC company, you have to increase your support staff in the office to back them up and ou have to have a timely job costing system to give feedback to the LC and the person supervising the LCMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Walt's view of lead carpenter
Job Description for the Lead Carpenter
Overall Responsibilities:
Specific Duties:
1. You are on-site manager on the construction job. Your good performance is extremely important to the success of our company. You are on the "front line" in achieving our company goals of superior product quality and superior customer satisfaction.
2. You are responsible for knowing and understanding all job paperwork: plans, specifications, and change orders. Any questions you have, or discrepancies you discover, should be checked with the production manager.
3. You participate in the pre-construction conference and the quality control pre-completion punch list, along with the salesperson, production manager (when applicable), and owner(s).
4. You are responsible for performing all carpentry labor on the job, requesting help as it is needed. When other carpenters or helpers are on your job, you are responsible for assigning them work, expediting their performance, and generally supervising them.
5. Time cards for all personnel should be checked by you for accuracy, and signed and turned over to the production manager by noon on Thursdays. No checks will be issued without a time card.
6. You coordinate all subs, work out all of their layout problems, ensure their proper performance, and approve their payment, as well as seeing that they get timely inspections on their work. You also ensure that they cleanup their own jobs.
7. You are responsible for ordering materials promptly and accurately, with at least 24 hours notice. Please be sure to check materials deliveries for accuracy in quantity and measurement, and for any damage. Truck drivers are also to wait for your inspection, because when you sign their delivery ticket you are saying there is no problem with the delivery. Be sure to note any problems right on the ticket. Job personnel should pick up materials only under emergency conditions.
8. Protect the owners' property. Do not use, or allow others to use, any of the owners' equipment, tools, or cleaning supplies.
9. Set up and monitor a "safeplace" on the job where items to be re-used are protected.
10. You are responsible for the owners' security. Lock up carefully at the end of each day. Do not leave ladders at house windows to tempt burglars.
11. Adequate dust protection is one of your most important jobs. Try to keep all dust and dirt as isolated from the owners as possible. Broom-clean the job site daily, and see that trash is hauled away at least weekly. Trash should be put on plastic that is laid on top of plywood. Absolutely no food trash is to be put in the construction trash. Put all food trash in the owners' trash cans. Supervise "maid" clean services when applicable on larger jobs.
12. Deliver customer invoices and collect customer payments according to the contract terms.
13. See that a butt can is designated and used if there are any smokers on the job. No abusive or foul language is to be tolerated. Radios should be played quietly. Absolutely no alcohol or drugs may be used on or anywhere near the job site, even outside working hours. Such use of alcohol or drugs will result in instant dismissal.
14. The owners' telephone should be used only for business or emergency personal calls.
15. If the owners wish to make changes or have extra work done, you will estimate the work, write up the change order with precise specifications, explain the scope of work to the customer, agree on the price, obtain the owners' signatures and collect the payment.
16. Be responsible for installing a job sign in the most prominent place, and keep it in good condition.
17. Be sure the job stays on schedule or ahead of schedule by monitoring progress on the flow chart. Notify the production manager if you will have any problem keeping to this schedule.
18. Job safety for both the owner and our workers is your responsibility. Wear hard hats, goggles, and steel-toed work shoes where necessary. Be sure that the job conditions encourage safety. Monitor both company and individual equipment for proper safety features and safe electrical cords, and inform the production manager of any unsafe conditions.
19. You will be responsible for conducting the quality control pre-completion punch list. Where possible, you will conduct informal inspections leading up to the formal quality control punch list with the goal of having a "zero defect" final punch list.
20. When the quality control punch list is completed, you will collect the final payment and obtain the signature of the customer on the project satisfaction report.
21. You will be responsible for all service calls involving work done by the company during the one year warranty period.
22. You will attend all production meetings and offer ongoing support and suggestions on ways to improve the field operation of the company.
Shellbuilder, when I look over Walt's list, I don't get too excited. There's a lot of useless/preachy verbage there to glamorize the job decription. I probably could rewrite that list and get it done in 1/3 the amount of words. A well constructed subcontractor agreement would probably cut out half the job description in one fell swoop. I mean really, do I really have to "ensure that the subs clean up their own jobs" if there is a financial backcharge that will happen if they don't?
As I read through the list (items 8-11), it's apparent that Walt feels the need to list basic jobsite duties and practices as something that is a specific "lead carpenter duty", when in reality it is eveyone's duty and something I teach first day apprentices.
Item 12 is something that I don't understand. It doesn't have to be a lead carpenters duty. The idea that the lead carpenter has to be involved in the money dealings is wrong for a lot of reasons. Delivering invoices and collecting money is NOT a lead carpenter's job, but that of the salesperson. No self respecting salesperson worth his salt would delegate that part of the job to a tradesman. There are a host of reasons why this would be a horrible practice but in the event that a GC felt that it had to happen that way, the invoices and checks should be enclosed and sealed and the lead wouldn't really have any access to the sensitive information inside them.
As I thought back, I remember having to deliver one invoice (in a sealed envelope) because the client and my "project manager" missed each other at a scheduled jobsite meeting. Okay, delivering invoices can go on the lead carpenters job description. Add 5 seconds to the job for this particular duty! (please note the sarcasm)
The next part of the list down to 19 can be eliminated. There's nothing but [reaching going on except for 15, which again is wrong.
No lead carpenter should be selling anything. Yes, it's okay for the lead carpenter to talk about the time something will take to change, but the actual dollars and cents should be the salepersons work. After all, he's the one that is going to get paid for the changes anyways!
If Walts book is nothing more than an elaboration on that list, I'd say it's a waste of money.
blue
I'm not imposing any thoughts...here are the facts, I had 13 employees, 7 were good frame , trim, demo and foundation skilled men. I implemented the lead carpenter system and implemented a profit share program. We had meeting after meeting with this system and the end result was that these guys all wanted to be carpenters and liked being carpenters and did not like being managers or billing clients or nagging subs. OK, so you think I failed, this went on or 3 years and it didn't work. The business has changed now to smaller numbers and a lot less bodies. This LC system was in place for a 2.5 mil a year full service remodeling company. Hoefully this discusssion is relevant to remodeling cos. and not sub carpentry. My hat is off to anyone who can "manage" new managers and manage their business at the same time.
I'm not imposing any thoughts...here are the facts, I had 13 employees, 7 were good frame , trim, demo and foundation skilled men. I implemented the lead carpenter system and implemented a profit share program. We had meeting after meeting with this system and the end result was that these guys all wanted to be carpenters and liked being carpenters and did not like being managers or billing clients or nagging subs.
Shellbuilder, it's fairly easy to see and understand why it didn't work for you. You didn't have the right person for the job. You had carpenters that only wanted to be carpenters. End of story.
By trying to force this on those carpenters, you were trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. It won't work.
The best book that I've read dealing with this exact topic (managing) was First, Break All the Rules. It explains exactly why your experience would fail.
To implement the lead carpenter in your situation, you probably would have had to go out into the employment market and bring in an outsider that had the desire to be a lead carpenter. He wouldn't have to have the best carpentry skills because you already seemed to be loaded with talent, but he would have to have good people skills.
Perhaps too, you were asking your lead to do too much. Some of those tasks might have been better staying with you, or another manager and just let the lead on the job do the things that they want/need to. For instance, when I was a lead, I never involved myself with any paperwork. No billing, no keeping hours (we were all salaried), no calling subs. I normally worked alone, or with one other laborer who would float from job to job. I did some of the material ordering, but not all. For the most part, every subcontractor brought their own materials because the plans and specs were thorough or we were simply matching the existing fixtures.
An important factor in this arrangement was the GC. He was a good GC, but he never picked up a single tool in his life. He did his job well, meeting with clients, scheduling and calling the subs and most importantly, checking in with me each and every day. In those days, we didn't have cell phones, so the daily visit was critical to maintaining proper job flow. On those visits, we'd evaluate the schedule in an informal manner. We'd occasionally look at upcoming jobs and their plans and specs, but for the most part all the jobs were cost plus and we didn't have to accurately guess how long something was going to take. He obviously was a good saleperson because he kept me so busy for the entire time I was there that it drove me nuts. I like to get spontaneous days/weeks off and that was not going to happen as long as I was employed there.
The salary issue is critical to a lead carpenter. At that time, I received a salary equal to a journeyman's 40 hour week. I had a full benefit package including paid vacation, health and life insurance, a new company vehichle, gas and the respect of Mort, the GC who treated us like men and KNEW the job would be professionally done in a timely manner. I never had one tiny problem with him, nor did he have any with me. I gave him an unlimited amount of time notice to replace me and I could go back there today and still have a job.
The lead carpenter program does work, but each situation is unique and it's up to the GC or general manager to tweak it till it achieves the desired result.
blue
"For instance, when I was a lead, I never involved myself with any paperwork. No billing, no keeping hours (we were all salaried), no calling subs. I normally worked alone, or with one other laborer who would float from job to job. I did some of the material ordering, but not all."Blue, I have Tim Faller's book about the Lead Carpenter system but have not completely read it.From what I have read and heard, the system you describe is different than a lead carp system.If you did no paperwork, collecting invoices, and little coordination with subs it seems you didn't do much to manage the job. Maybe the clients we have need more hand holding, the subs more coordination, and the suppliers more specific information, but I can't see a job being run in the manner you describe.Did the boss perform the functions that you did not do, or were they simply not there? Maybe we're just doing things the hard way.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Since my job is primarily office based, here are some functions that I perform that I would envision a lead carpenter not having to deal with.Plans (either drawing or coordinating with the designer/arch.)
Permits
Taxes
Payroll
Insurance
Legal issues
Marketing
Sales
Advertising
Job costing
EstimatingI'm sure there are others that I have missed but as you can see, to one who is averse to paperwork taking these responsibilites off of a lead is significant.As I see the system working, a lead will provide input for the initial schedule, manage the daily schedule, collect and turn in invoices, schedule & coordinate subs, possibly collect time sheets, and collect payments from customers.These requirements are drastically less than a business owner's day to day responsibilities. One can still concentrate on the project rather than the business. And as some have pointed out, if you have the right person for this job description the Lead Carpenter system can be very effective.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Why would a senior carpenter who likes to do those things required to run a business, choose to work for someone else for less money instead of starting his own company?
From my point of view, LC require less accumen of the bus. side of things than is required of actually being in business for yourself.
I'm a decent carp. I've been on my own for the better part of the almost 30yrs that I've been doing this. This past year I decided I've had enough. I never really had bus problems per say, I just never had a good grasp on it. I got tired of selling myself to people, or trying to. I know what I'm capable of, I do good work, on time, neat and clean for a decent rate. I got really tired and bored with trying to convince potential clients that I was the "one".
Right now I am working for a GC that can see that I am the "one". I don't need to convince him over and over. I receive decent compensation. I drive his vehicle with his gas.
I am not making a whole lot "less" money than I did before, and my day is pretty much over when I get home. I dabble a little bit in some time cards, receipts, paperwork, but it's quick and easy.
We scope out a job a few weeks in advance, I get a set of plans so that I can develop some type of plan of action. I go there and work; I am a working lead, one job only, I get the job going and call the shots as they come. I schedule and supervise the subs, and report back to the head office as needed.
To me, it's kinda like I get to do all the fun stuff and the headaches stay mostly in the office.
What I am doing technically may not qualify in the truest sense of the word as a lead carp, but I don't believe it is far off the mark.
I feel that a GC must be ready to relinquish responsibilites to a trustworthy skilled person for this to work. My boss has been on the site a total of less than 30 min in the last 3 weeks. He's doing other things now like selling jobs and looking for good real estate deals. What's better than that?
Done right with the right dynamics, it's win win.
Ericyourcontractor@aol.com
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
Eric,
Your lead carpenters job description is perfect. Where did you get it?
The CM
I sent you an email.yourcontractor@aol.com
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been