There a couple of lead paint threads going, so I’d thought I’d jump on the bandwagon. The children most at risk of lead paint poisoning (according to the news media) seem to be poor children. We hear of children living in sub-standard housing exposed to pre 1950-lead paint, and so forth. I have no doubt that this is a very serious problem, but I don’t understand the correlation with poverty. Everyone of my generation, rich and poor, was raised in buildings with lead paint. Lead paint has been used for centuries (millenia?). But lead poisoning from paint appears to be a recent phenomenon and seems to be concentrated among the urban poor. Why is this?
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hungry kids chewin on window sills for one thing..
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
Do you think this really happens (hungry kids chewing on sills)? The line gets repeated so often that it begins to sound like an urban legend.
seen it with my own eyes. Hell, I still chew pencils, and they taste like crap.
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Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
I'd say it's the lack of maintenance, which causes peeling or chipping paint. In the part of Aberdeen, WA where I have my renovation houses, most of the homes are 50-100 years old. The only thing the Section 8 people inisist on is that there is no chipped or peeling paint. They won't test for lead, unless you have any chips or peeling paint, then you've failed inspection and then they WILL check for lead, you have to get the lead abatement crew out, etc. .etc.
So of course, you go and touch up all the trim before inspection.
If they tested for lead every time, no house would pass inspection. But with all the paint surfaces sealed and tight, the risk apparently is minimal.
"They won't test for lead, unless you have any chips or peeling paint"
They are performing a "risk screen" which is appropriate for housing stock in good condition. Basically they are confirming that the paint is intact. It is the cheapest inspection to do. The downside (for occupants) is that, as you inply, paint condition can change after the inspection. The downside for whoever is paying for the test is that if you find deteriorating paint, you bump up to the LBP inspection below anyway.
A "lead-based paint inspection" measures every wall, type of window and door and trim and ceiling in each room, typically about 11 measurements per room with an X-ray Fluoresence instrument (size of a brick and $15,000). A "lead-based paint inspector" can do either of this or these.
A "risk assessment" looks at whether the paint is intact, measures some paint, may test dust and water as well. More thought but less XRF work (because it more focused on the problem areas), and more other testing. Must be a "risk assessor" to do that, can also do the other inspections.
I found I could fly Kenai-Anchorage-Seattle-Orlando and back using just my EPA "Risk Assessor" badge - so will they accept any "government-issued photo ID". But do you want people licensed to use radiation sources on the airplane with you?David Thomas Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska
I remember chewing on window sills when I was a kid. At least once anyway. I remember it because they tasted foul. Fortunately, they were not painted, just some sort of clear finish, so they probably had no or little lead in them. That's what I like to think, anyway.
Middle-class and up people tend to live in well maintained surroundings (either their own, or rental); so the lead paint that hasn't been removed would be sealed behind additional coats of paint in good condition. OTOH, many very low-income situatiuons apparear to have paint baddly in need or refishing and the current coats are chipped and peeling - it's those loose chips and blister fragment that are the potential hazzard.
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
Possibly linked to upkeep (or lack of it in the case of poorer neighborhoods). Most of the EPA handouts on lead poisoning discuss the dangers of loose and flaking lead-based paint. I don't recall much being said about lead-based paint that is intact. I'm not sure what the dangers are of children putting their mouths on intact (i.e., not flaking) lead-based paint but I've got to believe they're less than when flaking paint is actually ingested.
A lead inspector I spoke to told me a story about one kid who had severe lead poisoning, he was almost in a coma. He chewed a large chunk of paint of an old windowsill. He also, told me this is rare and most kids who are affected get chronic mild poisoning due to living in poorly maintained and unclean housing where lead dust finds its way onto the floor and window sills due to failing paint that is not attended to.
Phill and Stone have it right. It is dust from deteriorating lead paint that leads to the vast majority of lead exposure in children.
Sphere is correct, sort of, in that some of the most publisized cases have involved children gnawing on windowsills or eating paint chips (they taste a bit sweet). But while that results in the most extreme levels of lead in the blood, it is somewhat an urban legend. Really, the big risk for the vast majority of children is the DUST.
The dust is generated from friction surface - especially double-hung windows and door jambs. Also, those areas, being high-wear, got the best quality paint. Prior to 1950, the best paint had very high levels of lead. It decreased a lot after 1950 and all lead paint in residential appilcations was stopped in 1978.
Because the vector is dust, the peak exposure is to 2 year olds. They are mobile, spend all their time on the floor, and everything goes from hand to mouth. 0-5 brains are developing and lead hurts that a lot, but under 2 are babes in arms and over 2s don't hand-to-mouth as much.
Back to the correlation to poverty question: Yes, old bad housing and old good housing both have lead paint. But upscale housing is 1) repainted more completely, 2) maintained so as prevent water damage that deteriorates paint, 3) better housecleaning sweeps up the dust, and 4) those old doors and windows have likely been remodeled away.
Also a good diet has more calcium which minimizes lead uptake (zinc too, so welders, "Got Milk?"). The extreme paint chip eaters typically are also humgry from poor diet.David Thomas Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska
good post
Another interesting correlation to the dust issue is that -- at least here in LA -- the slums are more likely to have old double hung windows, and in upscale neighborhoods they're mostly original casements or recent replacements.
Before there was lead paint, there was an older thing called milk paint. Does anybody know rough dates for the transition between those two? I think it may have been in the 1800's.
-- J.S.
No direct knowledge, but milk paint and lead paint are not necessarily mutually exclusive categories. Milk is the source of the resin or binder in milk paint, corresponding to latex or alkyd resins in modern paints. The pigment could have been anything at all, including white lead.
As the others said - plus - lead was used in paint and other finishes (e.g., varnish) through 1978, not 1950.
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