I am installing a new lavatory in an old bathroom and have to move the drain about 14″ from existing. Upon removing the old one I discovered the copper P-trap drain was connected to 1 1/2″ lead pipe (looks like it was joined with molten lead). I am not sure how to make a new connection to this old waste pipe. Can I use some sort of Fernco connector to join old to new, or do I have to tear out all the lead up the cast iron – A huge job, I’d like to avoid if possible. (Fortunately the hot and cold supply lines are copper- whew)
Any suggestions on if there is a coupler for this combination or what I should do?
Tonakela
Replies
Yes a Fernco connector is your answer.
I would be surprised if the actual pipe is lead, though it does occur.
Anyway, if you have the walls open, you should try and replace all piping up to and including the connection where you have lead connections. The connections will fail over time, though this is more of an issue with toilets and bath tubs where there is more possibility of movement.
There are connectors designed for this.
I've seen a lot of actual lead pipe. (and lead can traps). I'd remove it Ferncos don't work very well on lead because as mentioned they crush easily. I'd take it back to the cast iron and Fernco hub a new PVC or ABS pipe in.
It's good practice to take out old lead DWV and galv supply lines in any wall or floor system you open up. They will fail on you at some point and you'll see what a whole lot of work really is.
You in the PNW by chance?
Cut out the lead & mail it to me ;-)
Lead is soft & I have seen people crush it with a banded rubber coupling ( ie Fernco).
Ideal if you could slide a copper pipe inside the lead & then use a fernco from the lead to the copper---- the copper will provide a round stiffener for the lead.
"Why do you hurt me when I do bad things to you?" My youngest son to his older brother
What are you doing? Making fishing lures and sinkers?
Down rigger weights mainly.
15lb balls get expensive.
"Why do you hurt me when I do bad things to you?" My youngest son to his older brother
I was in a hardware store in Leadville, CO...
they had lead pipe in stock and on the shelf up to 4"....
fittings too....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Down rigger weights mainly.
15lb balls get expensive
Stop by the local tire shop and find the floor foreman (or the busiest guy there) and ask if you can have the discarded wheel weights. The mix is a bit harder than pure lead, which might be a bit better for downrigger weights; just don't add an antimony, or your castings might be too brittle.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
re: (looks like it was joined with molten lead). I am not sure how to make a new connection to this old waste pipe.
Bill, do you know anyone in your business who still has the skill to wipe a lead joint?
Watched my great Uncle wipe a few joints when a kid, early 50's, still did a lot of lead drain pipes in midwest then. He had this asbestos glove and an asbestos rag.
He'd melt the lead and gauge the correct temp by how brown a piece of paper turned in a few seconds.
He'd take a ladle of hot lead, clean and butt up 2 lead pipes or tinned copper to lead, put the rag in the gloved hand under the joint and pour some lead, wiping the molten lead (pasty really) around the joint. It is one technique I've never tried myself but once decades ago -- just made a mess. (Did I say I love ABS or PVC drains<G>)
My dad who started his apprenticeship in 56 was the last class to be trained in lead wiping----- he never had to do it in the feild.
He taught me how to pour a lead joint but never a wiped joint.
I remember stories of a coke bottle to smooth it out.
I know some oldtimers that did it, but they don't work anymore ofcourse.
"Why do you hurt me when I do bad things to you?" My youngest son to his older brother
Interesting that '56 was the last training for wiping lead, wonder how many tries it took to learn to do well.
As far as poured joints, I still have a joint runner, a few ladles, punches, gasoline blowtorches, etc. Think I even have a wad of oakum stored up between joists someplace in the basement. Think the last time I fired up a gas blowtorch was to check one out before sending it to Notchman.
The 'good old days' were not very easy in some ways.......
Gasoline torches scare the hell outta me----- well ever since I saw one go up in quite a blaze cause of a leak on the reservoir.
Still see flooring guys use a similar torch when installing VCT.
"Why do you hurt me when I do bad things to you?" My youngest son to his older brother
We've still got all the tools in the shop. Even got some whale oil candles in the box.
Last poured joint was in about 1990, in a waste water treatment plant.
What's your address? I'm sure that a bunch of us could probably ship a couple of hundred pounds to you.
Collect, right? :)
If you count a urinal stall as a poured joint, then 2005 was my last poured joint.
In the early 90's I used to do a lot of remodels on old highrises in Seattle, I had more lead than I new what to do with.
"Why do you hurt me when I do bad things to you?" My youngest son to his older brother
As a kid we used to break up pianos for the lead in the keys, what a waste!
My house ,(built in the mid 50s').
On the toilets, has these lead, curved sweeps that go from the base of the toilet to the cast iron.
Just looking at them, and imagining how someone doing it from scratch, makes me appreciate how talented they had to be to do that...
Bud
Edited 12/1/2007 7:06 pm ET by seb
My instinct would be to eliminate all the lead back to the cast and 'Fernco' on abs from there. Just to keep it as clean as possible; you indicate that this would be a huge job. So, take the advice of the competent posters prior to me, and cobble it in. Sometimes you just have to. Something about thinking to myself, ' OK, there's the cast, Fernco, 3 feet of lead, Fernco, ah, ABS...', rankles. I've done it, and you probably should to.
I would have to do it without any of the tools I inherited from my Grandpa, or he would visit me in my dreams. :) (And wonder where I learned to do such cobby work. Not from him.)
Edited 12/1/2007 10:01 pm ET by skipj