Replies

1. 
   JDRHI | Apr 13, 2002 04:58am | #1

   TW,

    First of all I`m curious as to what type of "pan" you installed. A lead pan, vinyl pan, prefabbed shower pan?

    Secondly, NO!, thinset mortar will not suffice as waterproofing.

    I have built several tiled shower seats in the past and the first thing I explain to the customer is that I will not guarentee against leaks. I will make every attempt to make it as water tight as possible, but no guarentees.

     Is it possible for you to wrap the seat framing with the material you used for the shower pan, flashing it several inches up adjoining walls?

    Have you considered installing a "free floating" seat that installs after walls are tiled? I `ve done a few of them as well. They bolt through finished walls. I feel much more comfortable with these. Just make sure you have ample framing behind tile backer ahead of time.

   Good luck,

   Jay  

   J. D. Reynolds

   Home Improvements

   "DO IT RIGHT, DO IT ONCE"

1. 
   TimWF | Apr 13, 2002 05:35pm | #2

   I'm sorry about not being specific enough. I'm using a vinyl pan, with thinset and pitched mud base, with felt paper between the mud base  and  pan, then the vinyl pan and on top of the pan another mub base layer. can I use that same procedure up the front of the seat, will the mud base set or will it slide down?

2. 
   Scooter1 | Apr 13, 2002 07:58pm | #3

   There are generally two ways to do seats:

   1.  Build them out of wood and waterproof them with a trowel on waterproofing membrane (Mer-Crete 2000, Laticrete 9235).  I very much dislike this method.  The trowel on waterproofing must be applied thick, the polyester membrane must be mushed into the liquid and taken up and over the connection to the pan setting bed and the CBU walls at least 4".  Then re-apply the liquid at least once, and perhaps twice. 

   This is very very messy (I ended up with this black junk all over me, up my nose,my hair, and all over the house and every door knob) It also relies upon your skill and the membrane's stickiness to keep water out of the framing and your wooden seat.  Chances are that this won't work and water will penetrate the seat and your stupid wooden seat will rot.  Sorry, but that is what is going to happen unless you are very very good at this technique.

   2.  The second method taught to me by John Bridge is awesome and requires absolutely no skill.  Throw away your stupid wooden seat or use it for kindling.  Instead, build the seat out of concrete blocks and mortar and place it directly on the pan membrane.  Float your setting bed floor as usual over this.  If it leaks, no big deal, the water goes onto the floor (then out the drain), or on the membrane (then out the weep holes).  No waterproofing necessary.  Cool huh?

   For information on his method, go to his Web Site

   http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?forumid=1 and post your question there or use the search function.  The guys there are tiling professionals only, and not contractors or remodlers, and do these seats for a living a couple times a month.  They also have a terrific sense of humor, and will guide you through the whole process.  They are a great group of unselfish tile guys who want to share their knowledge with you.

   Good luck

   Regards,

   Boris

   "Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1927

1. 
   TimWF | Apr 17, 2002 04:01am | #4

   Thanks Boris, it makes sense.  I wish I had gotten your advice 2 weeks ago!!!

3. 
   danusan1 | Apr 18, 2002 07:19am | #5

   try using grace ice and water shield the material used for roofing, sticky as bee honey. overlap and stick right to vinyl membrane on floor that extends up seat. also extend up walls8-12"around seat area. cut  patchs and overlap any areas where cuts have to be made to get material to fit.  eliminate as many screws as possible when installing dur-rock onseat and face ,silicone screw heads after installed. pour mud floor. ie; pitch seat slightly.

1. 
   Scooter1 | Apr 18, 2002 06:10pm | #6

   I don't know, and indeed I doubt, if tile would stick to ice and water shield. Most of that stuff has a slick outer cover of plastic, and unless you have tried it with thinset, you are taking a huge risk.

   Many people try "new" products for tile, but you must make sure that the stuff is compatable with the tile and thinset you are going to use. I believe that single sourcing, e.g., buying your tile product from a single source, e.g., Custom, Laticrete, Bonsal, etc., is the best way to go. They design their trowel on products to be compatable with their thinset, and grout, and additives.

   If you are advocating that the ice and water shield be placed under the CBU, I would not recommend that at all. Why? Because you will be placing nails and screws every 6-8" on the backerboard that will go through and puncture the very membrane that is supposed to be waterproofing your wooden seat. Stick to a monolithic trowel on over the CBU. No holes and the 3-4 layers will keep water out much better than ice and water shield.

   Regards,

   Boris

   "Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1927

   Edited 4/18/2002 11:16:46 AM ET by Boris Yeltsin

1. 
   danusan1 | Apr 19, 2002 04:53am | #7

   the ice and water shield lays over the vinyl membrane, dur-=rock and or equilavant is glued with construction adhesive, the bottom doesn't get screwed as the mud floor holds it tight to face of seat.   limited screws are used at sides& top edge of seat face to secure dur-rock,  the back and sides of the dur-rock recieves a bead of silicone where these limited screws are applied then cover screw heads with silicone.  the  rock for seat can just be glued down over ice and water shield, then apply rest of wall rock to secure seat top and seat face. if you noticed a change in name I didn't realize as I'am new to this site that my password would post with with my reply. although my wife thinks it funny I'am sure it's not appropriate for the distinguised group of individuals that work with their hands and minds for a living.  hopefully this application is a little more clear, I have used this technique for a number of years and yet had any problems.               

   thanks for reply

   danusan