I have a leaking soil stack. Found out about it last weekend when we had guests for four days (this comes from the guest bath) and the ceiling started turning a different color.
Anyway, I went online and most of the advice there said the section of the PVC pipe needs to be replaced. Is there any easier way?
We’ve been in the house 15 months and I called up the plumber. He has no problem coming out and fixing it for free even though it’s beyond any warrenty period (great sub BTW) because we don’t use the guest bath that much and if we did the leak would have been apparent in a week or two. He said also the pipe might have to be replaced but that means more drywall being ripped out.
It’s above some kitchen cabinets (that’s the brown thing about a foot below the ceiling) and there’s other piping in the way. There’s a joist where the ceiling is scored (I could only cut the opening to the joist after scoring). A tight spot.
The leak is right where the lettering disappers into the elbow. That little brown spot may be you know what!
Thanks!
Runnerguy
Edited 10/16/2009 12:31 pm ET by runnerguy
Replies
It's not apparent what the cause of the leak is, precisely -- presumably a bad glued joint.
Some people have reported luck using an epoxy repair material on leaky PVC joints, but it would be iffy, and if it failed you'd have to tear out the ceiling again.
I would assume that if this plumber is reasonably skilled in his craft he'll know how to effect the repair with minimal additional demo. Especially given that he's willing to fix it for free, probably better to do it his way.
Yes, I think it's a bad glue joint. I'm planning on leaving the ceiling open for a while to make sure any repair, whatever it is, is working. Thanks.
Runnerguy
Well, I'd probably cut a "C" out of a coupling socket, and goop it up and snap it on, butting against the existing fitting.
But who the hell makes a 90 on the flat in a waste line?
Forrest - do you smell something?
From the picture you can't really tell but there's significant slope to it.
Runnerguy
????who the hell makes a 90 on the flat in a waste line??????Yeah, he calls this a soil stack, but thinks it may be carrying waste. If this is a waste line, the plumber needs to do more than just fix a leak.
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But who the hell makes a 90 on the flat in a waste line?
Plumbers.
As long as it is a drainage pattern fitting with proper slope (1/4" per foot grade).
His pic appears to be a medium sweep which is a legal fitting (in some parts of the country) for a horizontal offset.
The pics below are a medium sweep, vent 90 & long sweep.
I would cut out the medium sweep & replace with a long sweep or as Piff mentioned 2 45's.
EDIT------ Friggin copy paste don't work, here's the links.
LONG_SWEEP
VENT_90
MEDIUM_SWEEP
Edited 10/16/2009 10:17 pm ET by plumbbill
I can't see any evidence of a leak. Are you sure it's the waste line and not the supply?
Perhaps fill the tub a bit and drain it, just to be sure.
Scott.
Edited 10/16/2009 1:02 pm by Scott
I did do the tub thing after cutting the hole. It's a small leak right were the brown spot is. Not much, just a drip.....drip.....drip. The drywall right below it had a 2" wide by 1/4" deep crater in it. Noticed a coloration there and about 2' away where there's a drywall joint where the water was running along the top of the drywall until flowing into the joint. It's not much but it's a leak.
We've been using the room a little for over a year and it took that long for evidence to appear in the ceiling.
Runnerguy
Leak in the soil stack, huh? Brown stain, huh?
Bummer. Oh, sorry.
In an article by Ed Cunha published in FHB in the Dec 03/Jan04 issue (p. 66) entitled "A Primer on PVC Pipe" he recommends a double dose of PVC glue.
In other words, clean and then swipe the pieces of PVC with glue, put them together and then, when the joint is solid, swipe the whole outside of the joint with an additional layer of glue to make sure everything melts together. He writes:
"After applying the glue, I push the fitting onto the pipe, holding the pieces tightly...After holding the joint together for about 30 seconds or until it is completely solid, I give the joint a quick wipe all around with the glue dauber to fill any air pockets I might have missed."
Maybe it won't work, and maybe you'll want the pipe cut out and replaced on principle, but maybe it's worth a try? I mean, what could it hurt?
At worst, you're no worse off than you are now.
And, if the second application fuses the parts together and seals the leak, isn't that what you really want?
Good luck.
Thanks. That may work. After all the leak is very very tiny and there's no problem with leaving the wall open for a while to make sure it's working over an extended period.
Runnerguy
I think I'd also wrap that section in a couple of wraps of absorbent paper towels so that any and every drip is captured and held for you to see.
A drip of clear water from a sink or tub won't necessarily be evident to you if it drips out 10 minutes after you leave the house to go to work - it'll be dry when you return home 8-10 hours later.
I may be wrong but I think the paper towel fabric will be altered and show evidence of water even after it's dried.Griff
See if you can get that replaced with 2- 45°'s I kknow it's tight with that other right there...
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That may do well.But more than half the problem with that joint is that turds don't fo;llow a 90°L very easily, so he ccould have that pipe half blocked, resulting is slow flow, allowing the leakage to happen where a faster flow past the joint would never show up.
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I'm not a plumber and have only a passing familiarity with PVC.But I'm missing something in your comment. Maybe I'm not phrasing my questions correctly.
Why would sitting (or, more accurately, slow moving# water/waste eat through PVC pipe? Is poop acidic?
If #and that's an assumption) the pipe was solid, why would a leak develop? What is the process for something eating through solid plastic?
If there was a weakness in the joint from improper/incomplete sealing or gluing, I could see pressure forcing an opening through the weakness.
Thanks.Griff
It does not eat thru the pipe. but picture this - if there is a leak/bad joint - and a flush moves past it in say ten seconds, it has limited time for water to get out where the leak is, say maybe one drop.But take slow moving water with backup from partially plugged line - say it takes three minutes to seep down past that joint - now you have 18 times as much time for water to move thru the leak hole - say eighteen drops of liquid waste, about a teasopoon full. now have guests that flush three times and take a couple showers in the morning, what's that, half a cup?The only time I have ever seen a 90° in a waste line is when it turns from horizontal to vertical, and not often then. it just is not a good idea. Like another poster mentioned - "What kind of plumber does work like that?!!!"
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OK, I get your point. You're assuming there was a pre-existing leak or weakness in the joint such that standing water had time to work it's way out.
That was the flip side of my question which assumed we were starting with a solid pipe and wondering how a leak would start. It doesn't.
Thanks for the info.Griff
Up here I can have 2 - 90's on a toilet line before it is vented. Think about it, the waste in a toilet has to do 180 degree before it leaves the toilet and it is less than 3".
2" is the largest elbow permitted in a horizonal plane here, bigger pipe has to be a 45 or less.
The 2- 90's are on a wc line before the vent. After that every thing is supposed to be 45's.
think about it - There is a whirling vortex siphon pressure happening there. That comes to a slamming change of fluid dynamics when it runs into that 90.I would expect to find more cleanouts in a house with all those nineties in it.
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I should elaborate. I work off the National Plumbing Code of Canada.
(Another advantage of Canada, we have national codes with local amendments. :) )
After the 2 90's we have to use 45's. Using the 2- 90's is not a problem. If you are going to plug a 3" 90, you will plug a 45.
"If you are going to plug a 3" 90, you will plug a 45. "I guess I don't really want to get that deep into turdflow analysis;)
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<It does not eat thru the pipe. >
Shhhhh! It can, too. I tole DW I couldn't change diapers 'cuz the poop would eat holes in my hands!
Forrest - got through three kids with maybe a dozen changes or two
I don't understand either. If there's a solid or even a partial solid block, it will be just a few minutes of normal flow before the tub or toilet upstairs overflows. It doesn't take long to fill up a pipe.
Poop doesn't eat thru plastic. Our problem is we just never used the guest bath that much and when we did the leak was so small it took 15 months for a slight discoloration to finally show up on the kitchen ceiling, the first sign of a problem.
Runnerguy
Well good luck with the repairs. Hope it's done w/o major damage to your walls and cabinets.Griff
I've been successful with a second application of glue all the way around the joint.
If that don't work, then do the "c" like Forrest says....
then all new.
A La Carte Government funding... the real democracy.
That may not be the actual leak, just the lowest spot where the drop falls off the pipe. Also, are those supply pipes to the left? Didn't know that you could use PVC pipe for supply lines.
The supply is CPVC-approved for supply lines
See my above post to Mickey D.
It doesn't look like that joint was ever primed and glued in the first place.