I’m a homeowner with some familiarity with plumbing but no claim to anywhere near the training or experience of a professional. I’m working on a rental property owned by an elderly mother-in-law (sweet lady) trying to get it ready for a new tenant.
I just noticed that when water drains out of an older cast iron tub installed in the main bath, 2nd floor, a dripping of bath water comes from the copper (?) drain pipe. This is the actual “floor drain” at the bottom of the tub and not the overflow drain I’m talking about. You can see this clearly in two of the photos attached. The water in the tub drains freely and quickly, so there are no obstructions I can find. I haven’t opened the trap yet, but a snake from inside the tub made it down to the trap without resistance and came up essentially clean.
No plumber in the area will touch this house – at least not any that we trust. We’ve been through them all over the years. House was built in the late 20s by the original Connecticut Yankee who, if he could save a penny, by using a smaller nail, would. It’s had it’s share of problems to the point where I find I wind up doing most of the work simply because I can’t find a professional who’ll be bothered for such a small project who’ll touch it for less than a grand $. Truthfully.
Attached are photos I took yesterday of the underside of the drain which is visible and somewhat accessible in the boiler room. The word ‘somewhat’ is relative – you can see some of the clutter in this area from the supply lines and the galvanized trap and waste pipe leading away.
My questions are this: Where should I start to try to stop the dripping? Tightening the pipe leading into the drain? (Why would it have gotten loose?) Or, removing it, wrapping it with teflon tape and reinserting it into a cleaned threaded drain?
Can I tighten the drain itself from inside the tub? Is this a kind that screws into something to hold it in place with one piece in the tub screwed onto the main portion under the tub? If so, what tool would I use – I’d hate to break the cross bar into which the drain cover/filter is screwed. Is there supposed to be some type of washer or seal in between these parts? Does that wear out and fail? Or are these standard items than can be purchased new and installed in place of this older one?
The BIG problem is that the water drips right onto the oil burner. Not onto the furnace, but onto the actual oil burner head with all it’s electronic gizmos exposed and attached. Don’t want a shorted out furnace if you know what I mean.
Sorry, forgot to take a photo of the top of the drain inside the tub. Two of the photos appear to be the same, but I adjusted the settings on the camera in hopes some additional detail would stand out for someone to notice something (besides the fact that I need to take photo taking lessons).
Any help or advice would be much appreciated.
Thanks.
Griff
Edited 3/23/2005 6:58 pm ET by Griff
Replies
Griff, someone will be sure to answer this question but let me be the first to commend you on knowing how to ask it. IMO, you have won handsdown the way a post should be put together to generate an answer. Pretty clear language and good graphics. Nice job.
BTW, what I want to know about plumbing you could put in a coffee can.............
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Many thanks for the generous comments.
To be honest, what I know about plumbing would fit in a coffee cup. Probably a demitasse' or espresso cup at that!
I just get lucky sometimes.
Can you tell precisely where the leak is? From the pictures the pipes actually appear to be in halfway decent shape, but it's certainly possible that a pinhole has occurred in one of them. Generally such holes will be on the bottom 1/3 of the pipe, where water and scum sits.
One way to sort out the leak is to first dry the area well (if you can actually reach it), then tape on some sort of paper. Something like crepe paper would be ideal, since it will form around the pipe and will easily show dampness. Run the drain enough to cause a few drips, then take the paper off and see where it got wet.
Alternatively, you can get the drip, then press some sort of paper against various areas, to see what's wet.
I should ask: What kind of drain plug does this tub use? If the tub has a lever-operated drain then the actual leak would have to be in the pipe that runs up to the overflow, as unlikely as this seems.
DanH may be onto something here. The tub does have a lever operated drain stop.
In my testing the drain over the past few days, I've only allowed maybe a gallon or two of water to enter the tub before shutting off the water and opening the train stop, going downstairs and looking for the dripping (which is always there). I first noticed the dripping when my wife wash rinsing out the tub after cleaning it - again no great accumulation of water in the tub.
So, the water in the tub does not even fill the bottom of the tub before I let it out, let alone rise up along the sides of the tub to some height. Are you thinking that there's some kind of backflow pressure or restriction in the drain that's sending water up the overflow pipe where it leaks from?
I can readily understand that happening if the tub was full - water seeks its own level and would naturally flow up the overflow drain until it equalled the height of the water in the tub. That could be 8-10" after a full bath.
But, here in my tests, there's not enough water to cover the floor or bottom of the tub so there's little or no height created at the drain - maybe 1/4" to 1/2" of water accumulates before it drains out. The only flow of water up the overflow pipe I can imagine would happen if the flow down the waste pipe is obstructed and I snaked it. The snaked moved easily and came out clean.
I'll try the crepe paper test with paper wrapped around the drain pipe and the overflow pipe as best as I can and let you all know what I come up with. I'll also pull apart the drain stopper mechanism, clean it and try snaking down through the overflow pipe into the drain pipe and see what I come up with.
Thanks MSA1, I'll recheck the drain piece itself for tightness. I agree that if there is a seal of some kind generally, that they can and do fail over age. One of my questions asked whether anyone knew how this is put together - Is the part of the drain that's in the tub screwed onto the actual drain under the tub and, if so, is there normally a rubber gasket or other kind of seal (plumbers' putty?) underneath it? Do these pieces screw apart and, if so, what's the best tool to use without an increased risk of snapping off the crossbar in the drain top (to which the hair/object screen screws into)?
Thanks for the help.
Griff
Griff, plug the drain watertite and fill the tub a good bit. Let sit and see if the seal around the drain is leaking.
if not, run the water out and try to find the leak below.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Thanks Calvin. Sounds like a good idea to isolate the seal around the drain to see if it is the source of the leak. Will do.
Here's some advice from a plumber. Replace the entire drain assembly. It usually isn't too difficult to remove the old drain and install a new one, particularly if you can get someone to work above or below the tub while you work the opposite side. And it won't be a great investment in dollars to buy the parts. By the time you fool with trying to fix this one, it's just another place for more leaks to happen. You may need to also buy a tool called a dumbbell ('cause it looks like one) that has cross slots in each end that will engage the cross pieces in the drain. You can grab onto it with a wrench and screw the upper drain out of the bottom drain assembly. Take the screws out of the overflow cover and you will see how to remove the overflow assembly.Be sure to measure the height of the tub above the floor. Most new tubs are about 14" from rough floor but some of the older cast iron tubs were 16" from rough floor. Be sure the waste and overflow assembly you buy will be long enough if it's a 16" tub. Some of the new ones are too short. Be sure to get one with a stopper you can operate at the drain, not the kind that uses a lever and push rod down the overflow. The push rod type tends to clog the drain by catching hair.Watts even makes a drain/overflow kit that includes just the required fittings so you can assemble it to fit any size tub using standard 1 1/2" PVC drain pipe. I've used this to build a drain/overflow for 20" whirlpool tubs and it works just fine.I'd probably replace the trap, too. Just cut off the pipe with a Sawzall about a foot or so away from the existing trap and use a Fernco or Clamp-All and PVC pipe to extend the drain piping back to where you can put in a new PVC trap.Hope this helps. It may seem like more work, but it's the best solution in the long run and really won't take that long to do.
Thanks for the expert advce Allaround. I was hoping someone like you would post something because this was in the back of my mind all the time - how much more work could it be to just replace the whole dam* thing. Hadn't thought of cutting back past the trap, but that makes a whole lot of sense since the trap would be in the way of any repair I tried to do. And once finished with all new parts, there's no chance of a new leak sprouting somewhere else in an old system.
That's a new thought about the type of drain stopping mechanism to get - hadn't even considered that. I'll definitely investigate it.
I made a trip to Lowes this morning to see what was offered (you're right - not expensive - anywhere from $30 [PVC] to $48 [Brass] for the whole kit) although I'll probably purchase all the parts at my local plumbing supply house believing that the quality would be better and the advice is usually spot on (and free too!). Have plenty of experience with PVC pipe, so cobbling together the necessary parts and joining it to custom cut 1 and 1/2" pipe is fine. Galvanized appears to be 2" so I can just expand the PVC before actually mating it together.
Thanks. I think a plan is coming together. Let you all know how it turns out.
Griff
Be sure about the size of the galvanized and remember that pipe size is based on the inside diameter - so 1 1/2" pipe will be almost 2" outside diameter. I'd almost be willing to bet money that your galvanized is 1 1/2" - I may be wrong, but 95% of the time bathtub drains are 1 1/2" pipe.
OK thanks again. I'll measure the pipe after I cut it off and if need be take a piece with me to the plumbing supply house to be sure. But I have enough PVC on had in both 1.5" and 2.0" and even 3.0" and 4.0" (just got finished plumbing in a new PVC waste line from a toilet after taking out a piece of pipe fabricated from solid lead that was joined to a 4" 45 deg. elbow in cast iron which was, in turn, set into my CI soil pipe - Man, was that ever a lot of fun!) so I doubt I'll have to actually buy anymore pipe for this job.
At most, I may have to buy the adaptor if I am working with different sizes and the rubber and steel band to mate the PVC and galvanized together.
Frankly, I'd replace the whole galvanized line with PVC but for several branch runs that I really cannot get to without major house demolition to gain access. And why risk trouble, I guess.
Griff
The advice above is correct. We do 2-3 tubs a month. If they show any sign of wear or leakage in the dumpster they go. Too cheap not to replace. And they last 20+ years at a time so whats that, 2 bucks a year? DanT
Thanks Dan, but at this point I don't think the tub is the problem (at least I hope it's not). I think the problem here is with the drain from the tub.
So, at least to start, that's where I'm going to start working and see what comes of it.
But, you're right. Even with my limited experience, I've never heard of a tub patch lasting for any length of time and I'd pull the whole thing and replace it with a new unit if the tub was cracked and leaking.
I'll let you all know shortly how things turn out - probably going to start repairs tomm. morning. Should be done by lunch.
Yeah, right....by lunch a week from tomm.
Griff
Maybe I wasn't clear. I was agreeing with the advice to replace the entire drain assembly. Not the tub. I mearly said we do tubs so you could think I might know what I am talking about. Guess it didn't work lol. DanT
Whew! Thanks for clearing that up.
My heart sank really low at the thought that it might be the tub leaking and not just the drain apparatus. Replacing a tub would probably be beyond my capability - at least if I want it done before the end of the calendar year it would. Thanks for setting me straight.
Griff
For a CI tub to be leaking it would almost certainly have to have some major "cosmetic" problems -- a crack, bad rust, etc.
I understand. Nothing like that apparent here. Tub appears to be in excellent shape - well cared for. Glazing still intact and looking good. No cracks visible on close eye exam - didn't use a magnifying glass, but...
I'll start with replacing the drain system and see if that stops the leak. If it turns out to be the tub that's leaking and has to be replaced well, at least, I'll have a new drain system in hand. So, not much risk on my part.
Thanks.
Griff
As someone else suggested, it might be good to first try plugging the drain (ideally with a rubber drain plug) and filling the tub. If it's just the drain fitting gasket that MIGHT be easy to replace (with the dumbbell or whatever it's called). Unfortunately, a good percent of the time the crosspiece in the drain fitting breaks away and you have to cut it out, but you tried.
OK, thanks. I'll try it first. If I have to cut it out, how do I do that?
Use a hacksaw blade in my Sawzall and saw through the threaded portion of both the inside plug and outside drain? Sounds like I'd have to cut a hole in the drain first to allow the blade to go through.
I used a clear quick drying product called "seal all" to "fix" an identical problem. This has held up for a good number of years, in fact I think it will outlast the tub. It comes in a little yellow 4 oz or so tube, seems to be sold almost everywhere. It's been pretty usefull, but it seems to also seal the cap onto the tube. It either sticks like crazy or peels off like nothing. It sticks very well to skin.
Hello Griff
I just had a bad feeling, be carefull if you are going to use a saw to cut the strainer. remember the strainer is shaped like a mushroom, the bell part of the strainer is overlaping the tub.
cut through the brass threaded part not the top. then pry the gap you just cut (to make space) then you should be able to unscrew the strainer. a large basen wrench or a small pipewrench should do just fine.
take your time.
and penatrateing oil mught help, too.
if you take your time,the job should not be to much of a problem.
talk to you latter.C.A.G.
I think I've cut the threads, or at least most of them, with my sawzall. Have been doing handwork with an open ended hacksaw blade - slow and easy.
I do have to go back in with the sawzall and cut out the center bar which I think is giving the tub ring too much strength. Once it's out, I think the ring should start to fold in on itself with a little pressure.
The rest of the drain underneath has been cut away - it's basically just the tub drain mechanism left in the tub.
Here's a few more photos showing what I'm up against and up to. The first shows the tub drain with 4 cuts I made - 2 on either side of the center bar - still no movement. Another photo shows what's left of the drain from underneath.
The third photo shows the clogged nature of the galvanized pipe I cut off - it's a wonder anything drained.
Later photos, I forgot which order they are in, show the first spur in the galvanized pipe going up to a dead ended pipe. Another shows the whole layout of the galvanized pipe. The line going across the cement block wall leads up to a vent in the roof. Another photo shows where it joins the cast iron main stack.
I think I'm going to brace the vent pipe so it absolutely does not move and cut the pipe off just below the 90 turn and then cut off the opposite end several inches before it joins the main stack and replace it all with PVC. I'll install a fixture to accept the drain water from the tub and run the line right up to the trap under the new tub drain.
I'm going to cut off the dead-ended pipe and if I can't remove it because of some anchor up in the wall cavity, just let it hang there.
Thanks all.
Griff
As far as the drain it'self goes you can cut out some more of the sub-floor and get the sawzall with a fine metal blade flush against the bottom of the tub and shear the whole thing off.Also a Dremel with a cut off whell can do wonders on jobs like that.
Thanks Bill. But I hope once I get the drain out from inside the tub that the piece left on the bottom will simply fall away.
Interesting thought about the Dremel though. I hadn't thought of that one as a possible solution.
I'm reluctant to cut away support for a tub. Don't know how much support it gets from floorboards to begin with or whether it's the joists that really do the heavy lifting. One joist has been cut a way somewhat for that dead end galvanized pipe and another joist has pulled away from the (not sure what you call it) .... perpendicular joist to which it is nailed. End band? What?
I was going to put a joist hanger on the main end ? joist and add some new nails to attach it securely. Don't want it collapsing with a tub full of water and some 200# beauty sitting in it. Be a hellofa shame to ruin a good tub like that!
That make sense? About securing it, I mean.
Griff.
When I sugested cutting out more of the sub-floor I was not talking about cutting more boards, but rather extend the cuts in those that are already cut. They aren't support anything anyway.I think that you are talking about a header joist.Where a joist does not go through you sister the ones on each side that do and then put a header joist between then and tie the shorted joist into it.
OK, thanks. Header Joist, got it. Anyway one of the joists under the tub seems to have pulled away from the header joist about 1/2". Don't know if it's old movement, seasonal movement, or still continuing to move. But I thought I'd shore it up for my own piece of mind and install a joist hanger.
Don't think I have to open up the hole cut in the sub-floor under the tub yet. But if I do, I'll keep that in mind. Thanks for the advice.
Griff
Ah, go ahead and cut the joists!! That's a plumber's job, after all.
That's the attitude I like to hear!
Hello Griff
A bucket would have been nice, a tin can and a glass bottle were more like what I was on! ;-)
From your photos it looks like replacing the piping was a good call. The stains on the tub look as if they were coming from the overflow/vent.
Once the strainer is out the rest will be more easy. What are you going to replace the drain line with? PVC, cast iron, copper???
PVC is the cheapest and the easiest to work with. cut the G.pipeing back to a eara that is somewhat clean, use a nohub (or firnco) coupling. metal to pvc, (it is a plastic coupler that has band clamps to tighten down onto each piping. (the no hub has a stainless sleave and firnco is just rubber.eather will do nicely.)
As I said earlier the strainer is the hardest part of the job. connecting new will be a 1,2,3, type of job.
one question to connect the new strainer are you going to use plumbers puddy or silicone caulk? Eather will work.( go with the puddy,) just make sure the rubber is under the strainer (and tub, and use the slip ring, most people dont use the ring but I think they could help in the future.)
Im sure you will do fine! good luck.
C.A.G.
Thanks CAG
I'm planning on replacing the galvanized with PVC - it's a rental and I'm not concerned with noise. I am concerned with making it as easy on myself as I can. And, I know almost nothing about working with Cast Iron so I wouldn't even try it.
Yeah, the stains were from the overflow - the seal up there had become brittle and was falling apart when I took the cover off. No wonder it was leaking.
If I need to use something to seal a joint I always use plumbers' putty - never even knew caulk was a possibility till you mentioned it. I mean I caulked around a toilet base once I knew nothing was leaking out from underneath, but I used plumbers' putty on the hold-down bolts and inside the plastic caps to cover their ends. And as a seal under a faucet on a sink. Was almost going to try it as caulk to repair a broken window, but found a can of glazing compound before I had to. Always wondered how it would have worked out.
Griff.
Cut the cross bar out first to open up some room. That is what I was saying to do with pliers if you couldn't cut it. Unless you get really crazy you won't hurt the tub by bumping it with the sawzall blade. It usually just dulls the blade, doesn't hurt the tub. Even a nick under there in the porcelin is covered by the new chrome ring on top. DanT
Hows the seal at the bottom of the tub? It could have deteriorated just enough to allow the few drips. It looks like its been there for awhile.
Edited 3/23/2005 11:10 pm ET by MSA1
If it is the horizontal pipe which it looks like to me, that piece at fault is a threaded tailpiece. Loosen the trap nut and when you go loosen the tailpiece it will in all probability tear away from the ell which leaves you with a new problem, getting the remains of the male threaded piece away from the female threaded ell. Carefully get under the threads with a utility knife blade and collapse the remaining collar into the center in various pieces as they will probably break easily.
Take your sample to an old school plumbing house.
Before doing any of this pour water into the center of the drain so you can isolate the leak as being the threaded joint.
But really if the tailpiece has rotted through and you want some peace of mind, replace all of it.
the white stain looks to be coming from the overflow, if it were very loose this could leak from shower use
Yeah, I saw those too. I figured it was either that or that someone had allowed the tub to overfill before they shut off the water or else had filled it so high that when they got in and sat down it was enough to cause it to overflow. I don't know, maybe it was the rough seas caused by active play with their rubber duckie.... Any way that it happened meant that the upper seal was not doing its job.
The screws holding the overflow drain to the tub were tight, but when I finally got them open, I saw that the gasket had slipped down a bit and when I touched it, pieces of it came off in my hand so it was brittle. Probably not an effective gasket to keep a water tight seal.
I found that I wasn't able to plug the actual tub drain up because of the cross bar in the drain used to hold the screw from the hair drain covering the opening. So I began to remove the whole drain apparatus to replace it. But, using the thin tube that came with the can, I did spray a whole lot of rust dissovler around the drain in hopes of loosening threads that I figured had rusted together. Sure enough, the rust dissolver began to disappear from the tub and when I looked underneath saw that it had begun to drip down from underneath the drain - so it was the gasket in the tub drain that was definitely gone and probably accounting for 99% of the leaking water.
So far, I've cut off the galvanized trap with my sawzall - it fell right to the floor because the pipe from the drain had not been attached to the trap, merely inserted into it. Another prime example of sloppiness by the old Connecticut Yankee who built this place.
And, I cut off the pipe leading from the tub drain so the overflow tube came out. What's left is about 3-4" of pipe leading from the tub drain at the bottom of the tub. So far, I can't twist it despite all my effort and a lot of Gunk rust dissolver sprayed around the edges top and bottom. I've begun to cut it out but am going slow because I don't want to cause a crack in the cast iron tub.
What I found that surprised me was that the galvanized pipe was almost completley filled with rust particles - it's a wonder any water was able to drain down through the pipe. I can try to snake the rest of that pipe but I can only go so far and I'm afraid of what a buildup of rust particles pushed there by the end of the snake will do - I may wind up cutting it all out and replacing it with PVC.
Trouble is, there is one branch that leads to a sink that I believe is no longer in use. Both the tub drain and the drain from that unused sink were a branch line leading into another larger galvanized pipe that is the vent through the roof. That main galvanized line (the vent), in turn, leads into the cast iron stack pipe leading from the toilet and sink on the second floor - it goes all the way down till it joins with a cast iron horizontal run from another bathroom on the 1st floor and then heads out through the foundation to the septic tank.
I'll try to post photos later or tomm.
Anyone have any hints on how to remove an immovable tub drain? Even with the dumbell tool and a wrench and lots of rust remover, nothing's moving. I've made two sawcuts on either side of the center bar (into which the hair screen was screwed) into the side of the drain hoping to get through to the threaded part - but I'm reluctant to do too much for fear of cracking the tub. I'm going to try to get up from underneath with a hand saw (sawzall won't fit between the joists with the water supply pipes) to cut off and through the soft metal of the drain pipe to see if I can dislodge it from that angle, but that's going to be a bi*^h of a job. Let you know tomm. how that works out.
In the meantime, thanks everyone for their help and ideas. Have a good holiday everyone. Happy Easter and Happy Purim to all. Enjoy the time with your friends and families.
Griff
Use your sawzall and a metal blade, new one. Cut our the cross bars or twist them out with needlenose pliers. Make 3 verticle cuts by dividing the drain piece you are trying to unscrew into thirds. Saw as far down as the saw will allow and cut until you cut through the first piece of chrome plated brass. You will still have the chrome ring showing on top. Now take a screw driver and tap the chrome ring in towards the center and it will fold up like foil. When tapping the chrome ring make sure the screwdrive isn't resting on the porceling. Now pull the drain out of the bottom.
Galvanized drain are well known for rusting in a honey comb fashion and sealing themselves shut. You can snake them out and it will help but they will always have rust that will catch hair and debri. Bad stuff. DanT
Thanks for the advice Dan. I'll get to it first thing tommorrow morning.
NTW, for all interested, complete bathtub drain kits sold at my local Lowe's ranged anywhere from $30 to $50. Following the advice given here, I went to my local plumbing supply house and bought just the specific parts (they came in a kit, too) namely, the drain piece with the stopper mechanism, the overflow piece, and a PVC Wye. Using extra PVC that I have lying around which I'll cut to length, glue together and install using the parts from the kit, the total came to $14.66 for the kit.
In other words, half the price of the cheapest unit sold at Lowe's.
Griff
>> In other words, half the price of the cheapest unit sold at Lowe's.Only if your gas and time are free.
You read my mind. I thought you can tell it is DIY. I buy it where I am and get back to the job! DanT
Well, I stopped by Lowe's because I was driving by the other day and thought, why not?
But, for reliable parts and knowledgeable info I always go where the pros shop if I can because I know the quality I can buy is better and the knowledge can't compare to some guy making a little over minimum wage at the big wharehouse shops.
It just turned out that it was half the price this time. While I like to save $ on things I buy just like the next guy, most of the time I'll, at least, try to go for the quality item over the cheaper item thinking it will last longer.
And I don't want to have to do this particular job again. What a mess!
Griff
Hello Griff
It looks from your pictures the white stains are comming from the overflow. If thats it everyones advice about sealing the drain tube off (temeperaly) sound like a good one.
can you feel the pipeing for any wet spots? If you can get inthere with a flash lite and have someone run the water, you should be able to see where the drip starts from.
If its the over flow, eather the gasket is shot, or you have a leak in the overflow pipeing.
If not check the jam nut for leaking (off of the trap), it has a gasket in it that can be replaced. if the leak is comming from the other end of the trap , the pipe is screwed into the trap, and that too can be replaced.
again dry off everything first, have someone run the water, and watch with a flashlight. then you can tell whats the real problem. I hope its a simple one? but from a picture its hard to tell, BUT the pictures dont look to bad!
good luck.
Thanks C.A.G. (Last time I used that I was in the Navy).
Everything but the actual tub drain fixture has been cut and removed. I had pretty much decided that the drain itself was leaking, probably due to it's gasket.
However, despite much trying, I cannot take it apart. Demolition of the floor drain seems the only way.
I'll replace eveything with new parts and be done with it.
Griff
If I understand you correctly, everything execp the strainer has been removed?
You can remove that too, Although It may be onthere realy good (years of gunk build up,) it is threaded into the 90 deg elbo with a backup upstairs and a pipe wrench from the basement it should up screw,(it just be a two person job.) the only other way That I know of is to use a repacating saw and cut through the strainer (be carefull not to cut into the tub.) then useing a chisle,to bend the brass (to creat clearance) then turn the pipeing off.
replaceing the old with new should not be to hard.
good luck.
(I too was in the NAVY) ;-)
Take care, and have a happy Easter.C.A.G.
Am sorry to say I'm working by my lonesome here. But even if I wasn't, I don't think there's any way I'd get a wrench up between the rafters in this place. The drain is right above the furnace so there's all sorts of interference preventing me from executing a turn of the wrench.
I started the sawzall on the plug. I'll do a bit more by hand to make sure I'm not going to destroy the cast iron tub and then try bending in the stainless or chromed rim of the drain and see if I can knock it out.
Thanks for the advice.
My last CAG (Commander, Air Group) and I both got shot down over Haiphong harbor on the same day, Dec. 23, 1972. He and his rear got caught and spent about a year as guests of the North Vietnamese because he went down over or close to land while my pilot and I landed further out to sea and got picked up by Navy SAR helos. He always had good advice to hand out for free too! Thanks, CAG.
Griff
I know what the CAG is. ;-)
but thay are also my initials got in the navy. I was on a frigate, and a cruser. Not one of those Bird farms.C.A.G.
I kinda figured you knew what the initials stood for, but I didn't know about anybody else. Too bad you had to go to sea in a bucket.