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Learning autocad

ChiefWiggum | Posted in Business on January 23, 2009 04:32am

Anyone know any good resources for learning auto cad?  I want to be able to do drawings for small additions etc.  to turn in for permits.   Are there any other drawing products out there that would be a better choice??


Edited 1/22/2009 8:42 pm ET by ChiefWiggum

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  1. brownbagg | Jan 23, 2009 04:50am | #1

    web sites

    1. agewon | Jan 23, 2009 05:07am | #2

      I was planning to build a CNC router and too was  looking for a good CAD program for relativly cheap.  I bought the Pro version of Alibre, but they have a very functional trial version available for download.  It's very easy to learn and they have good tutorials. https://alibre.com/

  2. JMadson | Jan 23, 2009 06:32am | #3

    What's your experience and what software do you have already?

     
    1. ChiefWiggum | Jan 23, 2009 08:00am | #8

      I took drafting in High School 25 years ago.  I have a copy of autocad.

      1. User avater
        CapnMac | Jan 23, 2009 09:17am | #9

        took drafting in High School 25 years ago. 

        Which is good, you will have some understanding of the technique of creating drawings (and some of the why/how, too).

        I have a copy of autocad

        Which one, and which version, will matter.

        If it is AutoCAD (and not Architectural Desktop or the like), then the big question is R14 or earlier or Acad2000 or later?

        This is important in how you turn out finished sheets.

        The basics are really right there.  Line makes lines, Arc makes arcs, Circle, Ellipse, etc.  Dimensions are a tad conuter-intuitive until you get used to how they are 2 steps back to be three forward.  Writing text notes is also wobbly until you get used to it, too (there being about eleventy ways to annotate).

        The hardest part is in acquiring/creating useful Blocks so that the templates you would have used on a manual board are present.  (AutoCAD was intended to be a "universal" drafting tool, so it can be used in every form of drafting, which is why it comes with almost no defined "templates" at all.)  Blocks are what make the drafting productive (that, and drafting at 1=1 scale).  The Dimensions are in fact Blocks which are created on-the-fly.  Sheet borders are best built from Blocks, too.

        If you have the dead-tree documentation, go and follow the Tutorials that come with your ACAD (you may have to install them if you have not already).  They really are quite good, if not very complete for any specific discipline.

        That's the software, it can be learned, even executed with some aplomb (my dad taught himself using AutoSketch).

        Now, one of the things that can be tough is that, until about Acad2004, you created lineweight by assigning width to specific colors.  The colors you can see on the screen, but not the width--in the earlier releases, at least.  The process of deciding that, on your screen, blue is a 0.020 line, and green is a 0.015 line, can be a pain (and there is no set standard for such things, none at all, despite any claim to the contrary).

        The previous point, though, on whether you can legally submit drawings is also valid.  If your AHJ requires wet stamps, then the floks who own those stamps often have a legal liability to create the stamped drawings.  Which then winds up being a bone of contention.  You can bring complete, finished, drawings to a given professional, and they just never are close enough to that office's standard practice to be more than 40, 45% usable,  Just is.  (The more complete, the worse it usually is, too.)

        Check with your AHJ.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)

        1. Lansdown | Jan 26, 2009 12:59am | #25

          Have you used Revit (BIM) yet? That is the way of the future.
          I know it is probably not geared for residential work that the OP is interested in, but the major architectural firms that I deal with (SOM, Gensler, RMJM, etc.) are going that way, as are CM firms such as Bovis, Turner, etc.

          1. User avater
            CapnMac | Jan 26, 2009 04:13am | #30

            Have you used Revit (BIM) yet? That is the way of the future.

            Autodesk certainly is puching it like it was inscribed on stone an carried down from a mountain.

            Autodesk is still geared up to only really sell to giant firms with IT budgets.  Revit is presently aimed at firms in the 150+ seats range or more.  Since that's the target audience, that size of project is what is best supported, too--airports, convention centers, arenas, and the like.

            This is a little like when Architectural DeskTop first came out.  It was framed around drawing 4-12 story commercial buildings; hotels and semi-spec lease space work.  (Oh, and with a "gotcha" that you had to draw all the floors to make the sections work right).

            The real issue will be when somebody makes a BIM that works the other way.  For actual firms knocking out light commercial and high-density residential. 

            I still have no idea why Autodesk cannot figure out just how many potential seats are out there in residential and light construction, and aim a product towards them.  But, "we" may be the problem there.  Too many cheap plan books where mechanical issues are left to be handled by local trades.  Lacking any need of licensed design input kind of negates the need for full Revit interactionOccupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)

  3. User avater
    Gene_Davis | Jan 23, 2009 06:49am | #4

    You can get a used copy, fully legit with license, of Chief Architect version 10, for about a thou if you shop around.

    With Chief, you can do inside and outside remodels, additons, or whole houses if you want.  A lot of pros that just specialize in basement remodels, for example, use Chief.  Others use it mostly for kitchen jobs.  The big use is for whole-house plansets, but you can fit in anywhere in between.

    Whether you go ACAD or something else, be prepared to spend close to 400 hours of learning and practice time before you get competent enough for showtime.

     

    View Image

    "A stripe is just as real as a dadgummed flower."

    Gene Davis        1920-1985

  4. RedfordHenry | Jan 23, 2009 07:20am | #5

    ACAD is pretty high-end software, not particularly simple to learn, and expensive.  Google Sketchup is worth a look.

  5. User avater
    Jeff_Clarke | Jan 23, 2009 07:20am | #6

    Check with your state laws - unless you are a licensed architect or engineer, what you want to do is illegal in some states - ours (New Jersey) for instance.

    As a builder, or any other individual, you can do DESIGN drawings, but not construction drawings, unless it is for a single-family house that you intend to reside in yourself.

    Jeff

    eta - Some states have 'flowcharted' requirements - here is the one for Texas (for instance) - http://www.tbae.state.tx.us/documents/ArchRequiredFlowChart.pdf

     



    Edited 1/22/2009 11:27 pm ET by Jeff_Clarke

    1. Sasquatch | Jan 25, 2009 08:32pm | #19

      He can draw anything he wants anywhere.  He might have to get a stamp of approval from an architect or engineer, but that should not be too expensive.

      It is definitely not illegal!How can you understand God if you can't understand people?  How can you understand people if you can't understand yourself?

      1. Piffin | Jan 25, 2009 10:38pm | #21

        The illegal part in some places is if he advertises himself as an architect.Or if the state or locality requires that teh archy/engineer have actually DONE the work. Soem states allow for him to stamp it after giving it a review. Others require that he have done the work. In either case, the one wet stamping it assumes all liability for the design. 

         

        Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

        1. Sasquatch | Jan 26, 2009 12:19am | #22

          Which states actually require the Architect to make the drawings?  I think that is only required in the state of confusion. :)

          Most larger projects require teams of AutoCAD draftspeople, often none of which are Architects or engineers.

          As a contractor, you don't have to do all the work yourself.  You have people.  You also have the responsibility.

          In many projects, it would be infeasible for one Architect to spend valuable time doing the actual drawings.  That's why they hire people like me.  I was a draftsman after high school.  I drew what they told me and how they told me.  The bosses approved when I did it right.  That was before AutoCAD.

          There are many more reasons why expecting the Architect to do everything does not make sense.  First, they have to do the touchy-feely work with the customers; and they have to go to parties.  They also have to crunch some numbers.  This does not leave enough time to toil away over drawings.  Also, experienced professional draftspeople can run circles around architects and engineers when it comes to putting lines on paper or on a screen.

          Each drawing is not necessarliy done from scratch.  With AutoCAD or other variations, you generally start with a library of symbols and other information.  I almost never start a drawing from scratch.  Why should I draw the same construction detail each time I design a new house?  It makes more sense to copy the file for your details into your drawing and to modify them for the particular situation.  I go to a previous project with similar requirements, save it under a new name, and modify it before going on to new work.  The point is that the person who actually does the drawing is not actually doing all the drafting.  Much of it has been done by someone else.

          Even if an architect or engineer were to do the entire drawing, they would still most likely use information from tables, symbols (which can be detailed drawings in themselves), and other reference files.  Thus they would by definition be using extensive components in their drawings which they had not designed themselves.  Their role is to make sure the drawings are right.  If they choose to do some of the drafting themselves, that may just be a personal preference.

          Except in the smallest projects, I would not expect an architect to do the mechanical drawings.  That would be left to the mechanical engineer.  The same goes for structural and the other disciplines.  Each discipline would most likely stamp their own work;however, the folks who do much of that work probably do not have a stamp of their own.

          So if our friend makes his own drawings correctly and  pays a registered architect or a PE to review and stamp the work, I don't see how a State could deem that unacceptable.How can you understand God if you can't understand people?  How can you understand people if you can't understand yourself?

          1. User avater
            Jeff_Clarke | Jan 26, 2009 02:29am | #26

            "He can draw anything he wants anywhere.  He might have to get a stamp of approval from an architect or engineer, but that should not be too expensive."

            This is called 'plan-stamping' and is illegal in NJ and in other states.  The state hands out fines (like $5,000-$10,000)  to individuals practicing illegally.  Of course, the mileage in your state may vary.

            An Architect's stamp is interpreted to mean, specifically, "These plans were prepared under my direct supervision" - ie employees and/or consultants.

            You can prepare construction drawings for your own house (again, in our state) but not a non-owned house.

            Your other comments are mostly just plain insulting and ignorant.

             

            Jeff

            Edited 1/25/2009 6:31 pm ET by Jeff_Clarke

          2. Sasquatch | Jan 26, 2009 05:04am | #31

            I have not advocated plan-stamping or any illegal process.  In other words, I am not advocating that someone should get a stamp for a fee without consequence.  I understand that this may happen and has certainly happened in the past and is probably happening now; however, this is not what I am talking about at all.

            Considering the reputation of New Jersey, I can understand why they might use Draconian language to dissuade misuse of stamps.

            My position is that the importance and authority of the stamp lies in the liability and responsibility of the person who has the privilege of the stamp.

            "Under direct supervision" is a poor choice of language that may be supported by various professional associations for obvious reasons.  Your mention of "interpreted" tells a lot.  Perhaps it would be beneficial for your own piece of mind to think further on the implications.

            I know you didn't ask for my advice.  Since you felt insulted, although I did not intend to address you directly, and since you have determined yourself competent to deem me ignorant, I will offer it anyway.  Regarding your last sentence - get a thicker skin!  When you read a paragraph, try to engage your power of imagination to understand what the writer (me, or whoever) was trying to express.

            Once again, my position:  Anyone can draw Anything at any time Anywhere.  Let's not discourage that.  Let's especially not discourage those who would learn AutoCAD to do that.  I have drawn up many house plans over the last 30 years.  I hope I don't have to go to jail for that; and I prefer not to pay a 10K fine!

            If you are hung up on the legal meaning of "construction drawing", perhaps you should relax a little.  When Joe Citizen goes to an architect with a sketch on the back of a napkin of what he wants, it eventually becomes a "construction drawing" (a legal term in some areas, but a common sense term in others).  If Joe uses a ruler and a triangle to get his drawing into a more professional format, nothing changes.  If he goes to the trouble of learning AutoCAD to do the same thing, nothing changes.

            On the other hand, if he draws nothing, and just brings in some vague ideas of what he wants without drawings of any kind, in fact, without any coherent thought process in evidence, the A/E can turn that into "construction drawings".

            If he just has loads of money and walks into the A/E and says he wants a nice house, that will be turned into plans too.  Does he still have to pay the $10K fine in NJ?

            Perhaps you are engaging on a different level and I am being unfair.

            We (you, me, and everyone) are all ignorant in some respects.  We can't know everything.  This does not mean we are ignorant about everything.  If someone doesn't have a stamp or a degree or an official approval of some other kind for any specific pretension, that does not necessarily imply ignorance.

            Ignorance is not stupidity.  Neither of those qualities is a crime anyway, Mr Judge!

            Many who have the requisite credentials are ignorant in their area of pretension, as I have found to be true in a lifetime of experience.

            In summary, when I do whatever is necessary to get my thoughts from concept to "construction drawing" (a legal term with dubious validity and also a practical term with a lot of validity) by whatever means I choose and the law allows, it is OK. 

            You feel insulted by my comments?  If the shoe fits...How can you understand God if you can't understand people?  How can you understand people if you can't understand yourself?

          3. User avater
            CapnMac | Jan 26, 2009 03:54am | #29

            Most larger projects require teams of AutoCAD draftspeople, often none of which are Architects or engineers

            Ah, the distinction is that the drafters (that's the current sexless term-of-art) are working under the direct supervision of the licensed individual within the firm.

            The other distinction is often made not by the State Licensing board so much as by the Errors & Omissions and General & Specific insurers for the firm and/or individual professional.

            The State boards also may not make such specific requirments, but some local jurisdictions can.  It's been a while, but I know I've seen "drawn under the supervision of [licnesed person]" as part of the submission requirments for stie/plan review, and by extension, permit approval.  (This is so that an aerospace PE cannot sign off on subdivision design, despite being a PE.)

            The other bugaboo in brought-to-the-office CAD files is in being able to use them.  I've had enough trouble with Civil Engineer's drawings as is.  Joe Drafter hey-these-are-complet-how-much-to-stamp-them can be worse.  This is work I've had to do before, redrafting what others drew out, as what they did just would not "read" on our system.

            Then, there's the whole business of having to step through the entire design, looking for E&O as well as any specific liability issues.

            Let's say it looks ok.  Then, while looking at the dimension strings, one series is flipped to the wrong side of a wall, or maybe the overall dimensions do not match.  What then?  Bill the client at $60-90/hr to repair the "finished" drawings?  Send them back to be corrected?

            Last choice is going to be, here, I'll just stamp it and let the City cope with it.

            Been to that game before.

            Also to the one where the customer had us push our drawings through the entire review & permit process, to then not bother with the plans at all.  guess who the City called?

            This being "Of Record" can be right exciting. Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)

          4. Sasquatch | Jan 26, 2009 04:33pm | #37

            I do not disagree with anything you are saying.  This whole thing is being blown out of proportion.  We have some folks thinking skyscrapers and condos, I think.

            The OP stated the scope that should have been the basis for this conversation:  "I want to be able to do drawings for small additions etc.  to turn in for permits."

            If you take a closer look at the flowchart that was presented previously, you will see that the exceptions to the Architectural Act are very common-sense and that they exclude many structures.

            My comments were made with that in mind and to not let the OP be discouraged by by other comments that implied illegality.

            I think it is great when an average person has the gumption to learn a drafting program, especially AutoCAD (LT or the main version).  As for now, I am glad it is not illegal for a person without a PE to buy a drafting program!

            (That last sentence was a joke, in case somebody gets the wrong idea and this thread takes off thrashing again.)

             How can you understand God if you can't understand people?  How can you understand people if you can't understand yourself?

          5. User avater
            BillHartmann | Jan 27, 2009 12:37am | #44

            "As for now, I am glad it is not illegal for a person without a PE to buy a drafting program!"But I still think that they are working on the plan to have all pencil lead an now printer ink be micro-encoded so that they can trace back who made any drawing <G>..
            William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe

          6. Piffin | Jan 27, 2009 01:11am | #47

            After they get it worked out for ammunition...;) 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

          7. User avater
            CapnMac | Jan 27, 2009 01:44am | #49

            and that they exclude many structures

            Fewer and fewer in Texas.  Almost none in my specific city.  Now, no requirement for stamps for review--just for permits.  And, HO permits are significantly harder to get without stamping by someone.

            It's a sore topic for me.  There are one too many cavalier types around my town as is.  Bad enough when they just skip the permit process entire for "smal" renovations.  Worse still is when they just don't bother at all. 

            That's bad enough just for kicking over my rice bowl.  Taking money out of my pocket is not a way to get on my good side.  But, even if I am working for a living, the fly-by-nighters are polka-dotting the area with structures that may not even be close to sound, or are unsafe in use.

            I've got one of those right next door.  Elevated deck, built without permit, single top rail only right the way around.  There are photos in the Photo Gallery somewher.

            Yes, it is good when people can generate more clear ideas.  As long as we all are aware that "finished' is not always "finished."  That, those drawings may not save any money, even if they save some time and conversation.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)

          8. Piffin | Jan 26, 2009 05:30am | #32

            You know perfectly well that if a draftsman in his office has done it, then it is HIS work. Doesn't matter one whit if he is paying the drafter or apprentice or a student to draw it, or if he is stamping the plans from some unknown person out of state, he is stating that he accepts responsibility for the plans when he stamps it with his seal. 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

          9. Sasquatch | Jan 26, 2009 05:43am | #33

            Yes, I do.  But you are missing the larger issue that I am addressing.  When I go to an A/E with an idea, in whatever form, from vague verbal concept to a complete and correct construction drawing, without a stamp, I am paying for that special magic that turns my idea into a legal package that is accepted by whatever jurisdiction I happen to plan to build in.

            Back off and think about it for a minute.  I was merely trying to provide encouragement to someone who wanted to try to turn some ideas into a drawing and eventually into a project.  This person wanted to use some software.  The reaction was to tell this person to go home and let professional handle it.

            This reminds me more of some of the HVAC sites where the non-professional is treated like a would-be criminal for even trying to figure out how to put an HVAC system in his/her own house.

            Earlier, I was critized for using gender-neutral terminology (draftspeople).  Hopefully, you won't focus on that as my main message.How can you understand God if you can't understand people?  How can you understand people if you can't understand yourself?

          10. Sasquatch | Jan 26, 2009 05:58am | #34

            One more thought.  Rather than editing my previous text, I remind you that I was a professional draftsperson.

            When I screwed up, it was the responsibility of the engineer who signed off on my work.

            Also, there was another wrinkle.  When I screwed up, the company could fire me.  I did screw up once. I was 18 at the time.  It was a small error of measurement in calculting some rebar which caused the company some minor inconvenience and about $400.00 in 1968.  I resigned and went to the military for a better deal than my $1.65 per hour salary without union benefits where I had to work 40 during the week and 4 on Saturday.  I am pretty sure they were planning to fire me anyway since they had subtly recommended that I pay off the $400.00 over time and I had not responded to that suggestion.

            After many years of night school, I got my engineering degree.  I have subsequently gathered enough professional experience, IMO, to express some opinions here at BT.  Although I am retired for now, I am still in the game.  I hope that I do not have to say IMO after every sentence to hold back the tides of protest.How can you understand God if you can't understand people?  How can you understand people if you can't understand yourself?

          11. Piffin | Jan 26, 2009 06:23am | #35

            I knew approximately what your background was in this field when I stated, "you know perfectly well..." 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

          12. Lansdown | Jan 26, 2009 06:32am | #36

            At today's cost of rebar that would be substantially more.
            BTW thanks for your service, especially in '68.

        2. Lateapex911 | Jan 26, 2009 12:32am | #23

          I recently spent (it seemed) 3 days at the IHB builders show trying to decide between Softplan and Chief-These programs do more than draw...so take a serious look at them, because they help you design.I have Softplan, and I think Chief is similar. As I design, I keep the 3D rendering open on the other monitor. I watch the design change in 3D with every move of every wall. I "fly" the "camera" through the building, checking what I've drawn. The 3D capabilities are a great time saver in the drawing environment, but they also help you communicate the design.Before I had Softplan, I'd do plans and elevations to show clients my ideas, and I'd always throw in a perspective drawing as well. people just don't "see" their houses in flat elevations, so the real life viewpoints were big hits.now, I can bang them out by the dozen. And I can create multiple options for comparison as well.On top of the great design and selling tool, the programs help you with material lists, and costs, ...Learning seemed faster than my foot dips into AutoCAD. I produced this house in under 80 hours of work...it's the 4th project I've drawn. The kitchen renderings were my second project. Simply, those are good starts in a relatively short learning period. I've a long way to go, but, those are useful nevertheless.As Mike points out, it's better in many cases to spend the money up front if it saves time.Jake Gulick[email protected]CarriageHouse DesignBlack Rock, CT

          Edited 1/25/2009 4:35 pm ET by Lateapex911

          1. ChiefWiggum | Jan 26, 2009 02:31am | #27

            Pretty impressive.  Do you have any experience  or opinions on Softplan Lite?

          2. Lateapex911 | Jan 26, 2009 03:51am | #28

            Thanks! Trust me, they are useful, but they are far from perfect. I went for the full program right away. It's really hard to determine how a software will perform when you have no experience with it. You can't take a test drive, because you can't drive, LOL.That is why the choice between Softplan and Chief was sooo difficult. If you narrow it down to those two, consider another outside factor: Community. For example, I know Mike Smith thru this site here, and know him to be a straight shooter and trustworthy. I forgot he had Chief, or it might have swayed my decision, because he could be a resource. On the other hand, I knew Softplan had a strong forum with Splash, so, that factored in. My gut between the two...and it's only a gut reaction, is that Softplan seemed more "real world' and builder oriented, and Chief was similar, but required more of me to get the same results...but..they seemed to make awesome renderings better. I love visuals, but it seemed that even so, Softplan was a wiser choice...but...my opinion flipped for three days of going back and forth between their booths at the builders show, and I signed the papers 1 minute after the show closed. They are that similar.So, I thought that it seemed like while Lite might be cool at first, I hoped to develop enough that it would be frustrating, and I decided to just get it all and learn without relearning things down the road.Jake Gulick

            [email protected]

            CarriageHouse Design

            Black Rock, CT

          3. User avater
            BossHog | Jan 26, 2009 09:56pm | #42

            I bought SoftPlan "lite" a couple of years ago. It's hard to compare it with anything else, since I've never seen Chief Architect or the full version of Softplan. But offhand I'd say I'm happy with it. The company seems to limit what you can do with the lite version just enough to annoy you. Like in the "area" mode you can only calc the sizes of two areas. Lotsa annoying little things like that.Most everything I do is floor plans, so I didn't need a lot of rendering capabilities or fancy stuff. So far I haven't run into anything that I can't get done in the lite version.If you want to get into Spftplan fairly inexpensively, I don't think it's a bad way to go.
            Comparisons are as bad as clichés

          4. Piffin | Jan 27, 2009 12:07am | #43

            Hey Boss, I just had an idea.stand back now, LOLAnyways here it is. One of the things that made me go to the full version was wall configuring. I can create any kind of wall with the full version which is good, given all the older homes with unique materials I work on here.But the LITE version gives you a library of walls and you are limited to using those, with the exception that you can edit for height, if I recall.What would be interesting, just to see if it can be done, is if I were to create a unique wall and sent it to you to try using. I don't know if you would be able to add it to your library or not, but if you had a drawing using that wall and saved it, you could copy it and edit it around. not trying to sidestep the license, just curious if it can be done that way. You game?What version are you on? SP is not backwrds compatible, but I can still use V12 on this machine. For v11 I'd have to re-install which probably wouldn't be worth while. 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

          5. User avater
            BillHartmann | Jan 27, 2009 12:43am | #45

            Also Chief Arch has download able trail version. And SoftPlan will send you a CD. Not sure if it has a working, but limited version or just sales info.And Chief Arch has a light version ($495 and cheaper through Amazon) sold as BH&G Home Designer.http://www.homedesignersoftware.com/products/homedesignerpro/I am not sure if this is true any more or not, but you used to be able to upgrade to the full version with complete credit for what you paid..
            William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe

          6. Piffin | Jan 27, 2009 01:16am | #48

            SP has a demo CD, and then you can buy the program with a 30 day money back gaurantee.Or you can buy it on monthly installments. Miss a payment and the key locks you out. It phones home regularly for authentication. 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

          7. User avater
            Jeff_Clarke | Jan 27, 2009 02:09am | #50

            I've been drawing with custom walls/custom poche in CAD for twenty-four years.

            Jeff

          8. Piffin | Jan 27, 2009 02:31am | #51

            You've been drawing lines that represent walls.;) 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

          9. User avater
            BossHog | Jan 27, 2009 12:51am | #46

            I'm game for trying it. Right now I'm using version 13.3.2..Doing a custom wall is definitely something I would like to be able to do. I'd like to be able to draw a 4" exterior wall with siding, for instance. I can draw a 3.5" wall right now with 1/2" plywood on it. But I can only dimension to stud. Around here the "norm" is to dimension to the outside of the 4" wall, and I can't do that with the lite version.I don't have a current email address for you. I'll drop you a note through your profile so you have my most current email. If you don't get the email, you can get me at: rsitruss (at) yahoo
            I hate quotations. Tell me what you know. [Ralph Waldo Emerson]

  6. sunsen | Jan 23, 2009 07:53am | #7

    I tried autocadLT some years back and found it very frustrating. Since acquiring Chief Architect I've been able to do the construction documents for my last couple of projects. It's a pretty easy program to learn and the drawings look great. I'd recommend Chief to anyone who's interested in doing their own drawings.

  7. Marson | Jan 23, 2009 02:37pm | #10

    I have on my desk a copy of Autocad Architecture 2008, which my boss just gave me for the heck of it. (I'm a builder, not a designer). I learned Autocad some years ago, though it was only because I happened to acquire it. Autocad is a software package that can draw a bolt in 3D if you so choose. A bit like buying a Ferrari to use for going to the grocery store if all you want is simple drawings for your permit office.

    In my case, learning to draw with it involved a few days of working through an aftermarket tutorial like "Autocad for Dummies" or something like that. Drawing with it is fun IMO. You definitely get an appreciation for why a professional would want Autocad over a 50 buck home plan software package.

    But like was said, printing (technically "plotting") is a whole 'nother ballgame. I'm looking forward to seeing if it is easier in Autocad architecture.



    Edited 1/23/2009 6:39 am ET by Marson

    1. MikeSmith | Jan 23, 2009 04:14pm | #12

      where you are in your career would greatly influence your decision on thisi've been doing design / build since 1969 wen i took an architectural drawing class in college
      about half that time was on a drawing boardi tried AutoCad.... you can do some great drawings with it.... but you are still just doing a souped up drawing boardright now..... most design / builders and most designers who do it for a living are working in either Chief Architect or Softplan ( based on my not very scientific sampling of what's happening out there )every once in a while i look around at the competiition .... vectorworks... softplan... archicad....... envisioneerconcensus still seems to be Chief and Softplan....Architectural offices with different designers / drafters working on the same plan, tend to Archicad and Vectorworks ( and AutoCad )Softplan and Chief come out with a new version every 18 months or soright now I think Softplan is on version 14
      and Chief is version 12 ( X2 )... to upgrade from version 10 to version X2 will cost about $900 and transfer of license another $50 or soyou can get into those for about $2500 , brand new, or so from the companybut your learning time is money and your drawing production time is money.... so the initial cost is not as important as the comitment to learning
      i'd recommend a 3-D drawing program... like Chief or Softplan...not AutoCadMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

      1. ChiefWiggum | Jan 23, 2009 07:57pm | #13

        Thanks, lots'o good info.  I was looking at softplans website.  They have a Lite version for under a thousand I may look into it.  I'm also going gto check out the rules for plan drawing.   THanks to all.

        1. User avater
          Jeff_Clarke | Jan 24, 2009 04:59pm | #14

          This http://www.builderscad.com/ is builders-oriented CAD software based on the architectural software (ARRIS) that I've been using since 1985.

          Well worth a look.

          Jeff

          1. ChiefWiggum | Jan 25, 2009 12:12am | #15

            Thanks, I went to their website.  Their BuildersCAD is very affordable.  The only thing that concerns me is that they don't seem to offer classes, only text books.  I'll investigate further.

          2. BWH | Jan 25, 2009 04:24am | #16

            Try your local community college. Here they offer non-credit classes in various software for a couple hundred bucks. Classes are one or two nights a week, it really helped me speed along my ACAD skills.
            Brian

          3. brownbagg | Jan 25, 2009 05:00am | #17

            thats how I,m taking spanish. one night a week, $65 for ten weeks

    2. User avater
      CapnMac | Jan 25, 2009 11:11am | #18

      I'm looking forward to seeing if it is easier in Autocad architecture

      It's not.

      It's worse in Arch09, though <tired, worn-out, sigh>

      ADT, which is now Architecture, relies on Sheet Sets.  At least in 08, you can print sheet sets to other than DWF. 

      If you are comfortable with Layout Tabs, you are more than halfway through the printing battle.  Be aware that any over-rides you create while in the Plot/Print window are retained in the documents area for whoever the current User is, typically in a normally-hidden directory also labeled Users.  These files accumulate and can only be controlled by manual deletion.

      ACAD now barely uses the "plot" terminology.  That's partially due to how Autodesk only talks to CIOs CITs and the like any more, and they only know from printers.  That, and in 24" and larger machines, laser printing is about as common as inkjet print heads, which are about the last of the "plotting" devices.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)

  8. Danno | Jan 23, 2009 04:01pm | #11

    I took night classes in Autocad at a community college. The added benefit (which I, unfotunately, didn't take advantage of) was that the program could be purchased at about a quarter the normal price in the student bookstore.

  9. Sasquatch | Jan 25, 2009 08:45pm | #20

    Try OpenCAD.  They are reasonable and offer great support.

    How can you understand God if you can't understand people?  How can you understand people if you can't understand yourself?
  10. KaneoheBay | Jan 26, 2009 12:48am | #24

    Contact your nearest Community College. I did and took a semester. Glad I did. I tried learning AutoCad by myself but it was too frustrating. One semester and I was on my way. Additional features are easily learned once you master the basics.

  11. User avater
    lindenboy | Jan 26, 2009 05:57pm | #38

    I am an architect of 8 years.  I learned ACAD R14 in a 4 week summer session at college -- not even as a class through the architecture program!  Go figure.

    Anyway, ACAD is super easy, as long as you think of it as just an electronic pen.  Anything you can draw with a pencil, you can draw in ACAD.  In fact WAAAAAY more precisely.  I just sold a version of architectural desktop on ebay for about $75, including a tutorial disk.  I have a copy of R14 I would be more than happy to let you have.  Those are very cheap these days on ebay and the like.

    The new version do the same thing the old versions do as for regular drawing.  The newer versions keep adding features that quite honestly, we don't even use profressionally.  Some people do, but I like ACAD for what it is -- again, an electronic pencil.  Yeah, the new stuff does 3D and wall sections, and special blocks, and blah blah blah.  It sounds like for a while you'll just need the electronic pencil.

    Plotting is cake, btw, and if you run into a problem, just log onto the autodesk forums (http://www.autodesk.com), and search through thousands of helpful questions and answers.  Believe me, I've been there too asking questions and learning commands..about once every couple months I learn something new.  Heck, you could even ask someone like me.  Even better, get the PDF print engine, and make PDFs directly from CAD, then scale appropriately to your page size!

    And Adesk makes a program now called Trueview that converts drawings from old to new formats, so not having the most recent version doesn't even matter!

    Don't listen to the scrooges out there talking about how your building department may or may not accept the drawings.  You knew that part already.  Having CAD, whatever particularl application, to draw up your stuff can help you in so many ways.  Sometimes you might want to sketchup.  Other times you might want something you can easily and precisely dimension.  Different strokes for different folks.

    HTH.

    "It depends on the situation..."
    1. ChiefWiggum | Jan 26, 2009 06:50pm | #39

      Thanks, I have access to an older autocad program, but I've had a few false starts and can't find a class nearby to help me get started.  If I could find an intensive class of short duration I'm sure I could learn it.   As I looked into soft plan it looks like I can get short online classes.   Thanks for your input and encouragement. 

      1. User avater
        lindenboy | Jan 26, 2009 06:58pm | #40

        When we did our class, we drew an office space, complete with furniture, then plotted it.  That was basically IT.  I mean it seems sort of goofy, but it gets you throught the basics, then for intricate things you can start to ask online through the forums.

        It's nice to do that beginning couple of sessions with a live human being, because tutorials can be frustrating ; )  Good luck.

         "It depends on the situation..."

      2. runnerguy | Jan 26, 2009 07:42pm | #41

        I learned it last year just by buying 4 or 5 books. The best one was by David Frey "AutoCad and AutoCad LT, No Experience Required". It basically walks you through drawing a cabin. Having multiple books helps because some things are explained better in some books and other's are explained better in other books.

        I already had an extensive cad background knowing Vectorworks and Microstation so that may have helped. And as an aside, in comparing the high end programs, I found AutoCad to be the "clunkiest". There are literally 100's of things not done as cleanly as the other two programs do them. But they have a hell of a marketing department. More and more governments are actually demanding that their work be done in Microstation.

        But AutoCad will get the job done for you. Just prepare for a steep learning curve.

        Runnerguy

  12. brownbagg | Jan 27, 2009 04:22am | #52

    David Frey "AutoCad and AutoCad LT, No Experience Required"

    Just bought it off the ebay half.com site for $3.00. there is more copies left

    1. runnerguy | Jan 28, 2009 12:20am | #53

      As I said above, great tutorial. It walks you through a whole project and that's important because then everything is learned in context instead of some disjointed presentation. You see how each piece fits into the whole.

      Good luck!!

      Runnerguy

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