What helped you become a better sales person?
Training from a mentor?
A course/class you attended?
Certain books you found useful?
Practice, practice, practice.
Can anyone train themselves to be a good sales person or does it take a certain skill set.
If so, what is that skill set?
Thanks,
Aaron.
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Replies
>>"Can anyone train themselves to be a good sales person or does it take a certain skill set."
I think that the answer to this depends on what you're selling, and to whom.
If the item being sold is high-end homes, then there are skill sets that are a big help. An excellent command of the language, knowledge of the market and of this house, even a certain "look" can help.
On the other hand, if you're selling beer at an illegal dogfighting bonanza -- those same aspects become useless.
However, in every case, the ability to close the sale -- to actually ask the customer to take the necessary action ('sign here') -- is critical. And its an ability that some of us just don't have.
YesMaam,
Thanks for the reply.
Great point about closing the deal and getting the customer to commit.
The item being sold is residential landscape installations.
Aaron
All of the above.
Skill sets can be taught.In my opinion the thing that seperates most salesmen, is the ability to get in closing situations. This means the ability to cold call etc. when leads etc are not available.
The biggest problem with most tradesman is the inability to ask for the order. They give great proposals, answer objections, but forget that nothing happens without asking for the order.
Too many depend on great looking proposals, nice looking contracts and then blow the whole thing by not getting in front of the customer and asking for the order.
That is why when responding to emails, ask for face time, it is hard to sign a contract over the computor or the phone line!
frammer52,
Another vote for a strong ability to close......I'm seeing a trend.
What abilities would you have in your salesperson's skill set?
Thanks for the response!
Aaron
Taking Frenchies advice and start your closing when you meet your potential customer. It is time to take a prospects temp., this will give you an Idea what you are up against.
The single most important thing to remember is to ask for an order. I don't know how many times I have seen contractors just hand an estimate to a customer and leave.
This is one of the reasons, I like Jim's idea, of hiring a salesman. Remember if you hire an estimator, it is code for a person that is not a salesperson, but a giver of estimates. It is important to hire a salesman and train him or her in estimating.
Aaron ,
Can you ask an easier question ?
There is a vast amount of written data on sales , books galore .
What is of greater importance is your own personal credibility and one way to demonstrate that is by your product knowledge and area of expertise .You show them the plans and explain to them how you do have done these .
Don't worry so much about selling as being informative and have knowledge when the credibility comes the selling will be less of a persuasive thing .
Be prepared to answer this question :
Why should I hire you ?
regards dusty
oldusty,
Thanks for the reply.
Do you have any literature you could recommend regarding selling?
Great point about knowledge of product and procedure.
I am currently in the position of foreman and will eventually (read several years from now) move into the position of salesman for my crew and possibly another crew. I am hoping this will help me with my credibility.
Aaron
"What helped you become a better sales person? "
Training.
Books.
Failures.
Experience.
Knowledge.
New ideas.
Having a better understanding of my own limitations and strengths.
Knowing what I'm selling.
Sales is a talent that not all of us possess naturally. It can be learned just like someone can be taught to hit a golf ball. After the lessons, none of us will hit the ball as well as Tiger Woods, no matter how many lessons or how hard we practice.
Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Quote of the day: "...can't be done, it will take too long, not enough pipeline capacity, yada yada but yet they don't apply the same skepticism to their own "solutions" such as wind and biofuels"
Jim Allen,
Wow, great list!
I can see how all those experiences would help make someone a better sales person.
Does every person selling need to be a Tiger Woods to make it happen?
I guess it depends on your goals and your employers expectations.
Thanks,
Aaron
No. The point is that even Tiger Woods practices and he's a great golfer. A naturally great salesperson probably doesn't have to practice but he will be in front of someone 30 or 40 hours per week, honing his skills.
akb25
The best salesmen are born not trained.. However you may not have to be the best if you're good enough.. that's where training, experience, and desire come in.
Learn your product backwards and forwards. Know everything there is to know. then learn as much about the competition. Figure out what your advantages are and implement them as befits the customer. Another words don't just sit there and recite your knowledge, get the customer talking about their expectations needs and desires. Then when you tell your story make sure you fill every one of those..
When you have a negative turn it into a positive..
For example when selling white Salmon PT Barnum once advertised guaranteed not to turn pink!
Finally remember the addage, shut up and sell!
Once you've presented a story that is relavent to the customer, ask for the order.
Handle objections with an idea that your goal is to sell. Not to win an arguement..
Example.. I understand you don't want red carpet, if I replace the red carpet with your choice of color is there anything else in the way of completeing this sale today?
Another words before you give in in neogotiations make sure you have a deal. Don't give in on one item only to be asked on an endless list of other items.
akb25:
Avoid and completely disregard the negative stereotypes about sales and salespeople.
There are a lot of good tradespeople on this site but there isn't a single one that goes to work until a sale happens.
Product knowledge is good, but there is no substitute for the ability to make people comfortable enough to want to do business with you. You must earn their trust and that comes from having credibility of which product knowledge is a part. Nothing "sells itself" with one or two exceptions.
Last night I was in a bar/restaurant with my fresh-out-of-the-Marines nephew. They may have taught him to kill, but they never taught him to close. We were talking with the very attractive young barmaid and I asked her "Are you married?" "No." she says. "Engaged?" "No." again. "Going steady?" 'No." she says. "Well then, why don't you give my nephew your phone number so he can take you to the Nine Inch Nails concert next week?
She turned around, grabbed a piece of paper and slipped him her number. I was delighted as he is pretty shy. I haven't gotten a woman's phone number in over thirty years so I was glad to see I still had it in me.
You must close early and often. "No" really means "I need more information." whether it's women or remodeling.
Kowboy
P.S.:
Salesmen aren't "born" anymore than electricians or plumbers. Education and practice will make a great salesman, just like any other trade.
Edited 8/17/2008 2:54 pm ET by Kowboy
Good reply to the post, I liked that one.
I am also of the opinion that great salesmen are not born but made, sorry Frenchy.
Kowboy,
Then you haven't met really great salesmen. I have and they are a diverse group of people.
Among the best I knew was an attractive middle aged blonde who sold imported forklifts. She did so to tough buy american types who wouldn't buy an import if it was free. She not only was extremely successful but put many to shame..
Another was a mechanic who damaged his hand so severely on the job he was going to be given a massive settlement and retired.. What's worse he had a massive stammer. I taught him some of the basics but it was quickly clear that he could sell and technique be damned..
Here was a bashful, stammering, former farmer turned mechanic who quickly became the most successful salesman I've ever met..
My father was such a person whereas I've been a learn the techique and work diligently type..
Edited 8/17/2008 8:21 pm ET by frenchy
Good post!
There are a few things that make a good salesperson.
I think part of my edge is knowledge. People can see you coming if you try to snow them.
Be personable, knowledgeable, compliment their home, if you see something in their house that interests you, pick up on that common thread. Dont dominate the conversation with it but I think it helps ease tension and gives you a little connection.
I've had alot of people that were impressed with my knowledge. The other thing is pay attention to details. I got one rather large job partially because I was the only one bidding that thought enough to ask about lighting in the one bathroom we were gonna do. No one else thought twice about fate of the two really dated lights hanging in the bathroom.
They may have assumed about the lights but didnt ask. Assume nothing.
Finally, SHUT UP. Find out what your clients wants / needs are before throwing out 1000 ideas and confuing them.
Family.....They're always there when they need you.
"Finally, SHUT UP. Find out what your clients wants / needs are before throwing out 1000 ideas and confuing them. "That's the type of information a person would get if they got training. Sales seems like it's something that can be done without training. And it can be...but often it's done very poorly! After I did enough training, I thought back at how stupid I was in my early years of retail sales. I had a lot of bad habits and I'm sure that was instrumental in not getting many jobs I chased. Now, I'm much more aware of everthing I'm doing. I still don't have an organized approach and I'm not particularly aggressive and I lack in a lot of ways but my experience and knowldege allow me to overcome a lot of deficiencies in my sales presentation. Young people can't get away with that.
Yeah, but can you really have an "organized approach"?
I meet alot of different people that focus on alot of different aspects of the hiring process. Ya kinda have to feel them out to see which way to go.
Family.....They're always there when they need you.
When I first started in kitchens I actually gave it up because I didn't think I was cut out for sales. Then, as I worked in other areas of design, I realized that I was always selling my ideas and my ability. Then I partnered in a specialty gift shop and discovered I was really good at retail selling, too. That experience finally taught me to look at selling differently than I had in the past. I learned that every sale had an emotional counterpart I needed to pay attention to.
Sales is an intuitive process for me, a result of my trying to figure out what everyone really wants and finding a way to provide it for them. I love solving problems, finding the answer, seeing that happy look on my customer's face when I've hit the nail on the head. Somewhere early in that exciting process I start preparing for the sale, but it's an almost subconscious thing with me now - I don't have to keep reminding myself to ask for the sale, it has become a logical conclusion to the process for me that I've successfully communicated to the customer so that they're right with me at signing time.
So, you can learn to be a better salesperson, but I don't think you can train everyone to sell successfully. And while certain types of selling require certain skill sets (and mind sets, also), the ability to listen and to relate to your customers is most critical. You'll pick up skills you need along the way; look at what your failures teach you. Books and classes can help you identify where your weaknesses are.
If you can keep asking questions as you have and can be honest with your customers and serve their interests as well as your own, you're already on your way.
"If you can keep asking questions as you have and can be honest with your customers and serve their interests as well as your own, you're already on your way."It's as simple as that! Again, that is a lesson that someone would learn if they went to sales training.
Had some sales training while at HD, and they stressed learning to relate to your customer and speak their language. They also directed the focus away from just selling the product to selling the product the customer really wants and needs.
Easy concept to grasp, but so many in sales don't.
susiekitchen
That's the part that so many get wrong.. they don't understand that selling is filling customers needs rather than talking them into something they don't want..
There are too many bad salesmen out there who get it wrong. They think that selling is about making money for them and the customers are simply stubborn or ignorant..
1 salesman in 100 is still earning a living selling 5 years after they start. The rest have moved on to easier trades or less demanding careers.. of those 1 in a hundred less than 5% will make a great living selling. The rest will simply sell because it's a job and they have senority..
My brother is a docter, was a surgeon. He and I get together frequently and compare incomes and net worth. In spite of his earning power he's yet to net out the levels I have or achieve my net worth..
Selling well yields well sellling as most attempts do yields poor results..
Yeah, Frenchy, it's amazing how many sales courses teach overcoming objections as if the customer were just too dumb to realize how brilliant your particularly product/solution is.
I have my own rules for selling, which include not selling any product I wouldn't have in my own house and not selling the customer my product when it really doesn't serve their needs. That way I can be 100% behind my product and 100% for my customer at the same time.
Sadly, being a good salesperson doesn't make one an effective marketer. I'm very good at making the sale, but I need the marketer to bring the customer to me. I've never had much of a head for developing a strategy to do that.
You gotta know the difference between "selling" and "consulting."
And then, the difference between "needs-based selling" vs "wants-based selling."
(Although it seems as if some sales managers are unaware of the difference...)
Note how a "good" car salesman does his job. Note what he says. He works some form of "sensory" perception of his product into the story. How the inside smells, how smooth and shiny the finish is, how quiet the inside is or how great the stereo sounds, how it makes you feel when driving. All towards Feelings.
Therefore, I suggest you insert some form of "acknowledging the feelings" that will result from their investment. Play on those feelings. Such as: Instead of simply referring to the f/c siding as low maintenance, say something like, "You won't be tapping into little Johny's college funds by having to have this siding painted every five years. Imagine spending that time instead watching the sunsets from here..."
Or whatever the view may be.
Learning how to tell the story is another subject. And that's what you are, a story teller.
akb...... to me selling first of all means developing confidence in your product ( YOU )
you have to have confidence that you can deliver the product and you have to know your numbers
most people in construction companies do not know their numbers, so when they are faced with a prospective customer who has some lower prices, they become disheartended
if you have confidence in your numbers , then it is easier to sell your proposal
Aaron,
I would say 2 specific things have been a huge help for me.
#1-- i went to a roofing seminar-----I think it was certainteed--but it might have been ELK---probably 10 years ago
in the seminar --a video clip was shown of a roofing contractor--and older gentleman in FLA.--in the video--the older man described how he visits the customer inspects the roof, makes his presentation----and THEN as he is leaving he mentions to the homeowner" If you would like us to handle your project, please give us a call because I assure you that we will NOT be calling YOU!!!"
well----you should have heard all the roofing contractors in the room snicker---as if anybody could actually talk to a prospective customer that way
but for me----it was a "lightbulb moment"
I KNEW instantly that it would work for me.
#2--- there used to be a gentleman on Breaktime--Sonny Lycose---who has since passed away
now sonny used to talk about how to treat customers so that you got RAVE reviews from your customer base
I didn't agree with everything Sonny had to say in that regaurd---and virtunally nothing he had to say about politics------but when he talked about how to generate rave reviews-- I think he was spot on.
a helper and I are working a project--we will be there 5-6 days
the current customer got my name from his brother-in-law( rave review
)
the brother -in-law got my name from HIS neighbor( rave review)
THAT neighbor--got my name from ANOTHER customer( rave review)
When first looked at the current customers project I realized that I had done a project for HIS nextdoor neighbor as well--a couple years ago--- I mentioned that in passing on the spot.--customer later went next door and introduced himself to a neighbor he barely speaks to---and recieved another rave review
See thwe pattern--see how convoluted it is?????---but there IS a unifying theme
SO---yesterd the customer came out to watch us work--and to chat.
usually this annoys me---but i am glad I let him talk
my helper is a freind of the family--20 years old and currently NOT in college---- i have known him 7 years.
the customer gave my helper a long talking to--about how HE used to work a similar job( back in 1962)--and how my helper better get his hiney back to college like HE did--in 1962.
THEN-he precedded to tell my helper why he chose us to do his project---related the whole story of all the intertwined referalls--mentioned that my price was about 45% higher then the 4 OTHER proposals he had recieved---but that he appreciated my attitude. he also apreciated that I mentioned what the difficult spots were on the project-and how those issures were going to be resolved BEFORE we encountered them
( chiefly how we were going to replace damaged roof tiles that are no longer made----with matching and presumably un-available materials.
I guess what i would say is---that if you want ordinary results---follow ordinary methods---read all the books everyone else reads---follow the techniques everyone else uses----and hope to get the same results everyone else gets
If you want different results--better results----follow different methods--be a contrarian
compete -----by NOT competing.
Actually- as we were chatting with the customer-- i realized that i had missed an opportunity at more refinement in my system
last fall i bought a new truck--had it lettered--love the truck-love the signage----but thought of something I wished i had put on the truck signs
"By referall only"
Catch the implication???.
Very best wishes to you,
and remember--you have no competition---
OTHER contractors have competiton---but not YOU.---there is only one Aaron---and if they want Aaron-they are gonna have to PAY Aaron.
stephen
"read all the books everyone else reads---follow the techniques everyone else uses----and hope to get the same results everyone else getsIf you want different results--better results----follow different methods--be a contrarian
compete -----by NOT competing."Sorry Stephen, you have just suggested a method of selling that is in all the books. It's called the takeaway. It's a trial closing method.
Jim, those closing techniques have worked and worked well for years. Do you know some better?
Each situation is different and there is no such thing as a one size fits all surfire closing technique. There are situations where no technique is possible because it isn't going to close. I think some people would react favorably to Stephen's low key approach but it might be wrong for other clients. Stephen obviously finds this approach as something that works best for him and that is a very important element to the equation. He gets to work within his comfort zone and his sales are sufficient that he doesn't need to explore outside of that. Some people, might want a callback in certain types of remodeling. Stephen's business is roofing and he pretty much can comprehensively do a presentation in one sitting that covers his techniques, materials, warranties and price. A presentation and decision can easily be made in one visit but he is choosing to not ask for the business knowing that they will want to digest the information, talk it over quietly without him present and reach their own conclusion. That shows some empathy for their situation. His approach certainly isn't wrong and it can create a sale where there might not have been one but if it's done in the wrong tone or spirit it could also be construed as offensive.
I didn't say it was wrong, it works for him.
What I said was you were inferring that to excell in sales, you need to throw the sales book out. I'm telling you as one who was a sales manager in 2 different industries, the hardest thing to get through a sales persons mind was to close early and often. Closing tecn. are just that, techniques. Every successful salesperson has some that work for them and some that don't.
"What I said was you were inferring that to excell in sales, you need to throw the sales book out."I know I didn't say that. I know I wasn't inferring that. Sorry I've somehow led you down a wrong path.
blue,
It doesn't matter to me if the technique is in a book somewhere or not
Very few people do it---hence the shocked response from the rest of the roofers in the seminar----it's contrary to conventional wisdom.look at it this way---
who is in the better position?
a young actor who moves to NYC--and starts going to auditions for off-off broadway plays--hoping to show a casting director what the director is looking for
or Denzel Washington---directors contact HIM( or presumably his agent)
frenchy would say---you need to make it easier for your customer to buy
but I want to make it HARDER for them to buy
frenchy could sell one fork lift--or 5 fork lifts--or 500 forklifts
but he never has to MAKE the fork lifts---theoretically he has unlimmited potential--he could sell 50,000 forklifts---somebody will make 'em for himbut i have limitations-- there are only 365 days a year maximum
AND-- i only want to work ---maybe 125 of them
so- i need to weed out all the prospective customers who aren't going to allow me to meet my goals---------while simultaneously providing stellar service to the customers who DO allow me to meet my goalsI don't want every customer--just enough of the right customers.consider this---you meet with a prospect--and mentally review all of your sales tactics---choose one or 2---and put them into play.
you make a sale--success--or you don't make a sale--failure
if you failed to make a sale------why?---did you choose the wrong technique???---or was something else at work---perhaps NO tactic was going to work.
for me--if i make a sale-Great--- i am closer to my goalIf I DON'T make a sale-GREAT---I am also closer to my goal.
my closing ratio is pretty high with my one technique--and it requires a minimal investment of time
a higher closing ratio--who be more of a problem than it would be worth
BTW-- I am prety well semi retired from roofing---- i am into more bizzare carpentry repair projects---I do a bit more hand holding----but the basic technique is the same--- i want to be there because of a referall--or multiple referalls.
stephen
Hazlett
I do certainly agree that few contractors ever really try to sell their work. Most drop off a quote and hope a low price sells it for them.. If they have a great reputation or do extrodinarly good work they don't really have a way to convey that in a convincing fashion to the customer if all they did is drop off a quote..
Where you and I differ I think is on several points..
From 1995 untill 2003 I was limited by the numbers of fortlifts I could sell. Those limitations were caused by lack of capacity compared to demand.
In additon there is no one size fits all telehandler (or forklift) options, capacity, reach, tires, cab or no cab, loaded or stripped etc.. were just a tiny fraction of the variables involved..
That further reduces the numbers you can sell. Add the variables of new versis used and you're now beginning to understand the levels of inventory required to meet demand.
We had an inventory of close to 2.5 million dollars.. (imagine the floorplan cost of that!) and rarely had more than 5 telehandlers in the yard during the peak season.
Normal was zero thru much of the peak of the season.
Now imagine a contractor wanting a telehandler with a particular set of equipment needs. Unless I had a 90 day window (or longer in the case of Caterpillar) I couldn't provide him with what he wanted when he needed it..
Thus the importance of knowing the needs of the majority of my customers.
Sort of like you spend your day driving around talking to people who someday might want to put on an addition or build a new house..
I had to guess right. Failure meant miss a sale or cost the company thousands of dollars a month..
I had to guess at the probability of that contractor needing equipment based on my best estimate of his ability to close a sale. Further I had to judge his ability to pay for the equipment. It does no good to sell a $85,000 + piece of equipment to someone who won't make payments in a timely fashion.. One thing you learn to do is read between the lines.. is the low credit score due to factors which are now gone? ie is the divorce over and he's back on the job.. or does he have a sit back and wait for stuff to happen attitude? Is he the first on the job and the last to leave or does he show up sometime midmorning?
So in conclusion Hazlett. I too need the right customers..
"It doesn't matter to me if the technique is in a book somewhere or not
Very few people do it---hence the shocked response from the rest of the roofers in the seminar----it's contrary to conventional wisdom."Stephen, I knew that. The only reason I mentioned anything about that technique being in a book is to highlight the importance of reading the books and taking classes to learn how to sell. That was part of the OP's question and you graciously shared a new idea that you learned in a training class. There are a lot of folks in here who have talked about their sales approach and it often employs a variation of this technique. They are using it and not fully realizing what it is. They'll say something like "I don't need a sales technique. I qualify my leads before I even set the appointment. I have enough work already and I don't bother with certain types of clients". That is essentially the takeaway technique up front in the sales process and sets a powerful tone. It tells the clients that the contractor is in control of the entire remodeling effort and will remain so. Clients appreciate handing over their concerns and project to someone that will take charge. These techniques are laid out in all the books, seminars and trainings and can be learned. Its easy to know them, but hard to deliver them. It takes skill and experience but some people instinctively know how to do them without going through the "competent but awkward" stage.
That is what I thought you said, I apoligise.
This post has been full of good ideas, I hope the poster takes some to heart and applies them.
Group hug time LOL! ((((((((((((0))))))))))))
frammer, Jim Allen, Hazlett, frenchy and everyone who posted,
Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am soaking up everything you guys are saying. Keep it coming.
Thanks,
Aaron
Well, I soak a few things up myself. I shook someone's hand today while apologizing for something we screwed up and the lady wouldn't look at me when I did that. She closed her eyes and looked down and to the side. Frenchy...that's a bad sign isn't it?
Blue,
Yes it is, your apology wasn't accepted.. It could have been a Yankee/ Southerner thing, or the manner you apologized. Maybe you should have offered something more than an apologee. Maybe there are still unresolved issues.. Heck maybe you declined an Ice tea and she thought that was rude of you.....
(I'm sorry not know the details so I can't give good advice)
Don't let that issue fester.
What other body language signs do you know about?
Reading a persons behavior and interpreting it sounds pretty interesting.
Is this something you were shown/taught, did you read about it or is it from years of experience?
Thanks,
Aaron
akb25
The are several books on the subject but they aren't geared towards sales.
You need to interpret body language the same as any new language and do your own translation.. plus practice, practice, practice..
Star knowing the basics and make a presentation to someone who you know will lie to you in order to confirm your hypothesis. That's where the grind of car sales comes in..
People lie to car salesmen. You can expect it and surprisingly sometimes to their own detriment.. They may want a deal but don't know how to get it and are afraid to lay their cards on the table because a lot of salesmen will take advantage of them..
Nobody wants to be caught in a blatant lie so they squirm and twist trying to be believed..
You can gain a friend and most likely a customer if you figure out a way to let them off the hook they got hung up on and still treat them square..
I digress.
Get yourself into selling situations several times a day and practice until you can read people like the headlines..
Some basics stuff:
Crossed arms= they closed to what you are saying. It's a defensive posture.
Look at their watch: they want to end the conversation.
Their eyes glaze over: you are talking too much.
Too firm hanshake: insecure.
Affirmative head nods: they are open to what you are saying and agree.
You talk fast and they talk slow: They probably aren't going to like you.
They mimic your posture: they are in tune with you and like you.
Hands on hip: they are defensive.
They look up before they answer: they are visual type people. Your presentation should include lots of visual aids.
You talk slow: they talk fast. They probably won't like you.
They raise an eyebrow: they are skeptical about what you are saying.
I won't bore you with anymore because I'm far from a master at reading people. I did enough sales training to know lots of facts but that doesn't mean I know how to do them in a unconsciously competent manner (that is the highest form of competence). I'd bet that Frenchy does all of this without thinking about it because he sold full time for so long.
Doing it naturally is the key to excellence in sales. For instance, when I apologized and saw her close her eyes and look down, I should immediately asked her if there was anything else we should try to resolve. That is what Frenchy calls "nip it in the bud". He probably would have handled that situation immediately. That is called unconscious competence. I recognized it after a few seconds of reflection. That is called conscious competence if I awkwardly interpreted the signal and then found a way to try to deal with it after thinking about it for a few seconds. I failed to react and deal with it so I am still considered conscious incompetent LOL. But I'm learning!
Aaron ,
There is a basic format you can use for qualifying your clients way before actually giving a quote to , with a few to the point questions you can get a feel for where they are coming from or where they want to be taken to .
When I'm trying to size up the client I always ask when they would be ready to start the project just so I know if I am available . This is not conclusive but helps to see how serious they are and if you can accommodate the time line .
So by the time you give them the price you also know when they need it maybe . I mostly do cabinet and case work but I never ask what the budget is , I do ask what quality they want . Before they can know what quality they want I try to educate them enough to make an intelligent decision . It just gets them thinking out loud and if they tell me they have gotten prices I ask how they feel about the prices so far ?
I always only talk about the product I will make them and its merits , never about the lack of quality in the other products .
After you give the price in person , ask them if that fits the budget and if they are ready to sign up .
dusty
oldusty
I suspect you were getting internet fatique, your advice was great right up to asking if that fits their budget and are they ready to sign.
Never ask questions where the wrong response can shut down the conversation.. No is a conversation stopper..
Always asked open ended questions which calls for further conversation on their part.
example
So which way do you want to go? Low budget or high quality? Low budget? well let's see what choices we have for lowering the cost to your budget shall we? ? or High quality? Do you have a ceiling in mind with regard your budget or does the the quality of the work determine your budget?
Note how any answer given requires further elaboration? What's more it changes your position from a sales person to a consultant.. If you accept the advice of the consultant you've selected him and now the only issue is details..
What I do is hand write all the agreed upon details and estimated costs/budget right on the order form in front of them. When all the details are are correct I ask them to look over what we've discussed. As they read it I watch them and if the winse at anything I simply ask for it back and cross it off and hand it back with a smile. Now they can tell you, no wait I really wanted that or relax and move forward..
When they finish hand them a pen if they look up and say press hard the last copy is yours. If they sign it smile and tell them you'll type up a formal copy for their records. This is just a working copy..
Or if they don't sign and start presenting objections listen carefully to their objections, (I want to sleep on it...) repeat them back and make sure you ask if they have any other objections..
Once you've heard all their objections and got confirmation that that is indeed their sum total of their objections resolve them to the cutomers satisfaction an dpush again for the close..
* I like to deal with the sleep on it objection with a little joke to ease the tension.. OK you can but it will be pretty uncomfortable not to mention noisy.. I mean I hate sleeping on a sheet of paper don't you?
Now comes the beautiful part, if they smile at your joke you've got them. I tell them you've got three days to cancel a contract anyway so you might as well sign and get started on that three days. If you call me, I'll simply tear this up as if nothing happened.. I don't want unhappy customers. It's bad for business and bad for me too you know..
If they frown or ignore your attempt at levity you've still got 10 other close moves left.. (or should have)
I've found the take away tends to be the most powerful but that requires a set up earlier. You should know what will be effective by this time or you haven't been paying attention to the customer.. a balance sheet is common or any one of the 50 plus closes you shoould have in your arsenal.
I think there's a book out there with lists of all the possible closes, and you should be able to go through them and select out those which work or are applicable..
frenchy ,
Good advice ,
I think having the credibility and your clients confidence in you are the heavy items to close . With my production either they can afford it and trust me or down the road for us both. The only real selling I do is on myself .
Hope things are good Frenchy
dusty
Most of that is fine, but on big-ticket items where I don't already know exactly what I want and how much I want to spend, I do not close on the first meeting. Period. And I don't phrase it as "wanting to sleep on it," but as needing time to consider what has been discussed, review the printed materials and my notes, compare with what I have from other sources, perhaps do some additional research or think of questions I didn't already think of, and make a decision. If you push me to close when I've already told you (or otherwise indicated) that I won't close at that meeting, you will alienate me and lose the job - even if you later try to backtrack. But you already know that by that point in the conversation, so you wouldn't make that mistake. Others have, including a realtor I was interviewing to sell my house. She is a top lister, which means she is very good at selling listings to home sellers. But she blew it with me. It was very difficult to overcome her heavy-handed use of selling techniques on me (which were a turn-off), to evaluate whether or not she would be the right choice to sell my house to someone else. In the end she had too many listings for the number of closes to give me confidence in my odds with her in a declining market. But it made me breathe a sigh of relief to be able to find an objective reason to turn her down; I had been looking for one.One attempt to close (per meeting) is all you get with me. I expect it, but if I'm not ready to close I will tell you so, and I will expect you to respect that.Rebeccah
Rebeccah,
You're asking someone to come in and have numbers on doing your project? How accurate do you want those numbers to be?
Another words can you live with guidelines and approximates?
A persons time is worth something.. a skilled persons time worth even more..
If you are asking for a meet and greet sort of session that's one thing. If you want accurate bids for a complex job that's another thing entirely.
If I'm prepared to give you accurate numbers for a complex task I've made an investment in you and your project.. I don't want to waste that without compensation. I might have hundreds or even thousands of dollars of time and presentation materials. To be dismissed without a reasonable opportunity to recoup that investment is not fair on your part.
Let me give you an example..
You call me up and invite me for a proposal on a new property you've acquired. You want to know what a new house will cost you. We meet and greet and you describe what you want in general terms and I'll tell you about what you should budget for that place..
NO pressure, no bids, no details,..
You call me back and say that it sounds doable or within your thoughts etc.. and want me to do blueprints and a quote.
Now I'm going to attempt to recoup or know why.. I don't want to be dismissed because I was thinking a clapboard sided house when you wanted stone siding or You wanted a bigger kitchen with smaller bedrooms. What's worse is if you are bottom feeding.. finding the cheapest possible way to build something.. Using my plans to get competitive bids..
Those people don't have the same investment in you that I do so they don't need to start out with the same overhead I have.. Thus their bid will be lower than mine.. further there is virtually nothing that cannot be made cheaper if cost is the only portion of the equation of concern..
You can buy a blue dress as Wall mart or a designer botique. Both will be blue and both will fit. The only variable is the quality of the materials and the price.
Rebeccah," You're asking someone to come in and have numbers on doing your project? How accurate do you want those numbers to be?"Depends on the project.
" Another words can you live with guidelines and approximates? "Depends on the project and on how much I trust the person offering them. But it still takes time to make the decision. It takes my brain time to process information, and I will NOT be rushed. A big component in the trust is whether or not I sense that the person recognizes, understands, and is willing to work with the way I think and make decisions." A persons time is worth something.. a skilled persons time worth even more.. "Agreed. And if getting an estimate or a quote costs money either because of the size of the project, or because that's just how it's done in that region for that type of work (e.g. structural pest inspections around here), then I pay it. But I still don't make the decision about having the recommended structural work done on the spot." If you are asking for a meet and greet sort of session that's one thing. If you want accurate bids for a complex job that's another thing entirely."In the case of a truly complex job, such as building a house, I do (did) as others here have recommended, and break it up into two phases: design, and build. But I had an architect work with me on the design phase, and produce plans and specifications detailed enough to be built from. The search for a builder was separate, after a year of self-education and decision making had already been done." If I'm prepared to give you accurate numbers for a complex task I've made an investment in you and your project.. I don't want to waste that without compensation. I might have hundreds or even thousands of dollars of time and presentation materials. To be dismissed without a reasonable opportunity to recoup that investment is not fair on your part."Who said anything about dismissing without a reasonable opportunity to recoup? I said I don't make a complex financial decision the same day I am presented with the decision and with a (presumably complex) set of information about it. Are you thinking that my refusal to decide right away dooms you to lose the job, or that I am too hasty to decide that I wouldn't like working with you, if you made repeated attempts to close, indicating failure to take me at my word when I tell you I am not yet ready to decide? I can tell you that I am not like your wife; I do eventually decide, but the decision has to come from within; constant pressure to commit when I am not ready irritates me at best, and makes me angry and dismissive at worst.In my case, when my architect and I put my plans out for proposals, at least one major builder in town declined to put together a proposal. His prerogative, and as he was a (high-end) tract builder, it probably wouldn't have been a good fit anyway, though I didn't understand at the time. However, there were three others who were interested, one of whom I selected." Let me give you an example.. You call me up and invite me for a proposal on a new property you've acquired. You want to know what a new house will cost you. We meet and greet and you describe what you want in general terms and I'll tell you about what you should budget for that place.. NO pressure, no bids, no details,.. "Yes, that's more or less what my architect interviews went like, along with some information about them, what kind of work they do, how they structure their fees, and some references." You call me back and say that it sounds doable or within your thoughts etc.. and want me to do blueprints and a quote. Now I'm going to attempt to recoup or know why.. I don't want to be dismissed because I was thinking a clapboard sided house when you wanted stone siding or You wanted a bigger kitchen with smaller bedrooms. What's worse is if you are bottom feeding.. finding the cheapest possible way to build something.. Using my plans to get competitive bids.. "That's why I hired the architect. To get as many as possible of those kinds of decisions made. Up front. There are plenty enough things that the architect and I *didn't* think of, that the builder did. Part of my decision making on a builder was one who would be able to let me know of decisions I still needed to make, with enough time to be able to make them." Those people don't have the same investment in you that I do so they don't need to start out with the same overhead I have.. Thus their bid will be lower than mine.. further there is virtually nothing that cannot be made cheaper if cost is the only portion of the equation of concern.. "It's not. But pressuring me to close before I'm ready isn't going to change anything if that's what you're afraid of." You can buy a blue dress as Wall mart or a designer botique. Both will be blue and both will fit. The only variable is the quality of the materials and the price. "The Walmart purchase is far more likely to be made on the spot. If I decide later I don't really like the dress or it falls apart in the washing machine, then I'm just out $20 and I can buy another one or do without. The boutique purchase of a $400 dress for a special event is more likely to require thinking about it overnight or over a week, or maybe I'll visit a couple of other boutiques or Nordstrom Rack to try and find something equally nice at a lower price or with less onerous care instructions. And if the saleslady at the boutique is pushy, I leave and likely don't come back.Rebeccah
Rebeccah
You may not know it but whenever you speak with anyone you give off signs.. signs which to an experienced person are easy to read.
If I saw that you weren't ready to make a decision I have no problem with giving you sufficient time. However that does not mean I'll leave my money with you. (money in the example I gave are the blueprints, plans, contracts, details that spell out exactly how to bid and what my bid is)..
I've done that in the past only to have someone underbid me by a tiny bit to simply get the business..
Face it, rare indeed is a contract to build a house that isn't amended at some point. At that point he can return the profit he gave away to get the bid (and then some if so inclined)
We'll have discussed everything to your satisfaction and you'll know what we agreed upon but you won't be given my work without payment.
Those who do are asking to be taken advantage of.. While perhaps you won't the fact is many would..
Finally when I sell, I tell everybody to reconsider everything and simply call me and tell me to tear up the contract if they want to back out.. Until I actually start or spend money on their behalf I'm not at all upset should they change their mind..
That's after the deal is signed..
What your signature really indicates is not that we have a deal or you are committed but that we have an understanding subject to cancellation..
I understand buyers remorse. I understand a change of conditions or circumstances.. If I'm not out anything I see no reason you should be either..
Handwritten as these are with things crossed off and added it's simply a beginning of an understanding.. Not a sentence..
You cannot do business if people are forced into it.. Far better to walk away than attempt to make something happen they don't want to happen..
On the other hand I had one customer who used to commit verbally over the phone, I'd come out, he'd sign the deal and then a few days later call and cancel. Buyers remorse hit him hard and he chickened out.
2 1/2 years later he finally pulled the trigger and the day I delivered he was so happy he kept telling me I should have sold him sooner.. He was actually mad at me about it!
(on the other hand he was one of my best referrals.)
Frenchy, should we tell them that the hardest customer to sell normally is their best customer?
Frammer 52
I know that a hard won customer trends to be a good customer so I guess I have to agree with you..
I love them as they are veryvery loyal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!>G<
Nice tips Frenchy but you probably will have to qualify your lessons and explain that each person will require a distinctly different approach. I say that because everytime a specific tip is mentioned, folks come out of the woodwork and complain that it won't work on them. It's viewed in a negative fashion when really, it's just a method to help people make a decision. I've seen some people confuse themselves with so many "problems and choices" that they abandoned projects that they really need/want to do and they can afford it. They would be better served if a skilled salesperson was able to help them overcome their fear of making the decision and sign on the line and then get what they want. Sales isn't about forcing someone into a decision, it's more about informing them so they can make the right decision...even if it's a no to the salesperson!
Edited 8/24/2008 12:57 pm by Jim_Allen
Blue
Well made point. So many think that selling is about forcing others to buy something they don't want or need.. it should never be used that way! Not if you want to remain in business long..
My wife is a classic example.. I have to sell her on nearly everything.. she hates to make firm decisions..
I don't sell her to cheat her or take advantage of her.. I love her and only want the best for her..
But if I don't sell she won't make a decision about anything!
One thing I thought of as I reread this.
I'm trying to condense a lifetime of selling skills in a few simple to understand paragraphs. That's like you telling others how to build a house in a few simple paragraphs.
You inevitably leave out a lot of critical details.
Then someone jumps in and accuses you of forgetting the importance of this or that. OR takes their perspective on your statement and suddenly it sounds like your're back tracking when all you're attempting to do is clarify..
That happens a lot in political campaigns.. Too <grin>
Edited 8/24/2008 1:26 pm ET by frenchy
"But if I don't sell she won't make a decision about anything!"In many ways, I'm the same. I won't make decisions that involve me spending any money. I'm penny wise and pound foolish.
Blue,
I'm the opposite. I count on my wife to reel in some of my excesses.. She has this passive aggressive nature that simply compells me to do the right thing.
We compliment each other nicely.
JA ,
Very true post nicely said .
I never try and talk some one into doing anything , except consider the end results desired , I lay a path that's easy for them to follow .
I also think there are many aspects that are different when we talk of sales of a custom remodel or a forklift or used car and other already made products , it's just not the same imo .
The truth is not all potential clients will be compatible nor desirable , trust your gut instinct !
dusty
oldusty,
I cannot tell you how many times I run into that same prejudice..
Oh you can't do it that way in this industry or field etc..
Well no you can't talk about airplanes if you're selling tractors but the method of how you get there is the same..
It's about reading the other person well enough to know what he wants..
If you present a lowest bid to some buyers you'll lose because they want to negotiate the last bit themselves in order to feel like they've won.. To some others if you give a bid ecpecting to negotiate the last bit you'll lose because they are a low number buyer..
You've got to know that! I don't care if you're selling tractors or turnips..
There are countless clues an experianced salesman knows how to read that a novice who's read every book will simply pass over..
There are questions you ask and jokes you can tell to get to that bit of knowledge..
It's like, tell me everything I need to know about dealing with every sort of person.
Your first trip to the big city things will come as a surprise to you.. however if you eat sleep a live in the big city things are a lot simpler..
I know, and I was thinking that very thing when I posted. It's just one set of techniques, and obviously it's a variety that works well in many cases.I do think it's important to ask for the job, and I don't resent that at all. I also did mention that I didn't think Frenchy would make the same mistake with me that the realtor did, because I (like to) think he would be paying closer attention to the signals, and take me at my word when I say I'm not ready yet...Rebeccah
I understand that too Rebeccah. Not many of us like to be badgered and I get annoyed with all the closing demands. I think you clearly stated that you expect one and were open to it. I've had to deal with salespeople who barrage me with their secret trial closes. After awhile, if I get annoyed, I'll start rating their attempts . I might say something like: "very nice trial close, you pulled that off quite nicely." and then continue my discussion without answering it. If you do that a few times in a car dealership, they'll run and get the closer LOL!
Blue
I'm in absolute agreement that no one method of closing fits all situations.. that's why you listen well to the customers.. Listen carefully.
This isn't the time to be mentally thinking about what you need to say but real focused attention to not only what they are saying but what their eyes and body language are saying when they say it..
Here's a classic example.
If someone says I don't want to pay too much or I have a tight budget (something along those lines).. read their body language and watch the eyes.. If they are open and either looking at you or down and to the right you know that what they are really saying is I'm willing to trust you..
If they are closed up and avoiding eye contact or looking up and to the left they really are afraid..
Those two bits make all the differance about what was just said..
Use that approach on everything they say.. and you'll have a far better idea of what to respond to..
Here's another trick to dealing with customers.
When dealing with objections listen carefully to what is said and then repeat the objection back to the customer as accuritly as possible followed with one critical question,
Is that your only objection?
It's senseless to brillantly resolve an objection only to be rebuffed with the next objection.. you want to get everything out and connect all the issues.. Because maybe, just maybe they will tell even a differant story..
Good points, Frenchy!
Aaron,
There was a thread here a while back called "Selling 101". Use the advanced search function and read through the thread for more suggestions, and resources.
My first learning came from reading books. and trying some of it.
The next stage of learning came from getting around salespeople as they worked. Particularly two cabinet salesman. One was a former IBM salesman, and the other had sold log home packages. Mr. IBM usually did around 3 times the required quota of cabinets, and Mr log home did about 2.25 times the annual quota. Being around them allowed the book knowledge to "come alive". Though they were never official mentors, I just simply observed them, and asked a few questions later.
The next stage was classes and seminars from NAHB, and the Remodelers Show, as well as meeting and asking questions of some very successful remodelers at these events, and at the state remodelers council. ( Successful meaning: NAHB Remodeler of the year, Remodeling magazine Big 50, NARI Contractor of the year, and some feature articles in various national and state trade magazines.)
I have learned nothing about sales hanging out at the local lumberyard. and very little at the local HBA meetings. When Hazlett mentioned the "herd" mentality of laughing at the roofing sales video, I can totally see that happening. Which is why i don't think you need to be intimidated by Frenchy's 1 in 100 statistic. In remodeling you don't have to be perfect, just better than the rest of the herd of "order takers" and "estimate senders".
One small point to beware of Hazlet's approach is that he is selling himself to a customer who is going to buy from somebody. Whereas you may not only be selling yourself, but also selling the customer on doing the project. In other words, your competition for the customer's dollar may not be another contractor, but perhaps a new car, or a vacation. Having the hard-nosed approach can push them to spend their money in a completely different arena of want, as opposed to needing the roof done because it is leaking.
Bowz
that is an excellent observation Bowz.
stephen
So here's a real-life scenario and question for the sell-meisters out there.I met with a potential client last night who has some exterior work. Two french doors that need some attention (both removed and installed with sill pans, one has some rot on the jamb and brickmold), an older deck with over-spanned 5/4 PT, decking, over-spanned beam, weak rail posts, windows that need rot repair and caulking, front columns with minor rot to be replaced with PVC, you get the idea.The meeting went well, I think I made a good impression on her because I was thorough, I tried to listen to what exactly she wanted, etc. Near the end of the appt., she mentioned bids and said that she had another contractor (who was referred to her) look and "well, everybody does things differently".I told her I would need a few days to work up a Proposal and asked if we could schedule a time when she and her husband could meet (he's across the country on business). She said "that's not really necessary, I make all the decisions". She also asked if she would get the Proposal prior to the second meeting, and I replied that I would just bring it with me so I can answer any questions she may have, bring product samples, etc.This morning, I got an email from her asking to send the Proposal to her for her review prior to the meeting. One thing to note is that she is both a PHD and a government contractor (we're in the DC area) so I'm assuming 1) she knows how to do research and likes information to be available and 2) she is familiar with the government contracting methods where RFI's, RFP's, and all other acronyms are the name of the game.Now, my questions:1) How should I have responded to the response to my request to meet with both husband and wife? Keep in mind that a lot of women in this area have husbands who are away a good portion of time (a lot of active & reserve military along with government contractors who need to travel a lot) so it's not uncommon for the wife to make decisions like this.2) What are the upsides and downsides of emailing the Proposal prior to the meeting. I don't think she's just looking for price, but as always, I know price will factor in. I could always send just the scope of work section and not give her the final page (which has the project cost) but I'm thinking that may be kind of shady.I should not that I feel I had a good rapport with her, and at no time were her questions antagonistic at all.So if I were a sales expert, how would I have handled the first question differently and what would I do now with the second question?*edit- This was supposed to be addressed to "all", not just Hazlett
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Edited 8/27/2008 11:16 am ET by JonBlakemore
jon,
i would not insist on meeting both at the same time. It's entirely possible that in their marriage she handles ALL this stuff.As far as sending the proposal ahead of time,
my guess is that she has a price in mind--and is maybe leaning towards the other guy.-- If your price is too much higher than his---she will simply just call and cancel your second meeting( she already has your price-she doesn't need the meeting if she is letting the price rule you out) on the other hand-she has asked you-reasonably)---to do something a certain way---so--- if you refuse to send her the proposal----she will use THAT refusal as a reason to rule you out.
If it was me-- i would send her the proposal she asked for.
If she cancells the meeting--that's fine-- you were never gonna get the job anywayIf she keeps the scheduled meeting--that's great also. since she has asked repeatedly for you to do something a certain way--refusing to do so can only hurt your prospects.Best wishes,
stephen
Thanks Stephen.I had never thought about it that way. That's ironic, since I just threw out two bids for granite countertops because they didn't give me the few simple things I asked for.Something to think about.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Me, I would just act as if I didn't recieve the email, if I have a firm appointment>G<
Pitch her alone, I have and my wife have both done things without each others knowledge, and in some cases consent.
jon.... you spent time and effort on the Proposali wouldn't give her the time of day if she wouldn't give me the face-to-face opportunity of presenting iti'd definitely want to be out in front and back in the driver's seat with Mrs. Govt. contractor...
she only thinks she knows how it worksgovt contracting is not builder-homeowner contractingyou're driving this ship, not heri'm pretty sure i'd have asked for a proposal Fee too
it pre-tests the waters to tell you where you stand in the pecking orderi'd love to hear the follow-up on this onenow... this doesn't work for all customers... but that's ok........ i'm selling relationships....
if she ain't buying...... i'm not gonna make the sale anyways...
but i don't lose 8 hours out of my life chasing itMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
i wouldn't give her the time of day if she wouldn't give me the face-to-face opportunity of presenting it
I don't think she intends for her receipt of the Proposal to take the place of the face-to-face meeting, my impression is that she just wants to review the details first. Of course, as was said above, maybe she just wants to save time and decline the meeting if she doesn't want to close.
In looking at the email just now, she does say that she would like the email to include a "rough estimate or quote, whichever you prefer". So, that adds another question. Do I give her the firm price of a ballpark to test the waters?
i'm pretty sure i'd have asked for a proposal Fee too
it pre-tests the waters to tell you where you stand in the pecking order
I'll admit that I haven't been able to get to the point where I ask for a Proposal Fee on a project like this. An addition, yes, but decks, basements, repair, kitchens, etc. are free Proposals. We do use allotments on the basements and kitchens to avoid all the work needed for a 100% firm price, so that ameliorates some of the potential for wasted hours on a job you don't get.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
"We do use allotments on the basements and kitchens to avoid all the work needed for a 100% firm price, so that ameliorates some of the potential for wasted hours on a job you don't get."Allowances make the job of putting a proposal together much easier. I had no idea how to use them in proposals during my first stint in remodeling back in the early 80's. I might have survived the business then if I had some of the help I get in here.I don't know how to ask someone to get paid for a proposal either. I don't mind asking to get paid for a design package but our package doesn't include any money or time for anything but the CAD time. We did decide to include a line item on our proposals for an hourly consultation package to help pick out the clients selections. I figure it's an easy way of adding in a half day of services at $85 per hour. If/when a client decides to save some money, they can easily see that they can save $340 (half day minimum) by going shopping themselves.
lemme give you an easy one....
yesterday i went to see a referral..
she was a very nice lady.... 1958 Modern Architecture style house
needs new windows
i told her i would be glad to preoare a proposal for her , but i would have to get paid for my time
she asked how much... i told her $400
she said ok
i doubt that i can prepare the proposal for that cost... but it does establish some things
1) she trusts me
2) she is willing to invest her money in me
3) she is serious about doing some work
4) i am now the front runner
5) even if it comes to nothing.... i will at least cover some of my costsMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I agree with Dovetail. If you are calling this some form of consultation to develop a scope, then a consultation fee for those services are warranted. I commend you for getting the $400. I suspect there are a lot of window s LOL.We'd probably just count the windows/doors and fix an allowance for each window. So, within an hour, we'd say something like this: We agree to remove and replace 35 windows ($600 materials allowance for each window). Total price: $45,090.Then, we'd give an explanation of what that included followed by our eight pages of boilerplate.
By the way, you an use that price and quote. We'll split that proposal fee. Send me $200.
How about changing the word "Proposal " to " Scope of work" for a minute just for a discussion point, for me that helps take the $ issue out of it. I sense that is what she is looking at or for.
She wants to ensure that both you and the other guy are including the same items (indicated by her comment "well, everybody does things differently".) Also gives her a chance to think about has she included everything she intended to .
If she is familiar with contracting( which you indicate she is) then that would be understandable to me. She hasn't provided the "Scope of Work " in a written form to you guys so she is going to rely on the two of you to lay out what all the work involved is. More than likely because she knows her own limitations in being able to see what all would be involved.
So now you list out what it is you are proposing to do and how you are going to do it and a rough estimate (but definitely not a firm quote because there is no agreement on just what is to be done yet).
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
"i'd love to hear the follow-up on this one"
Well, I just sent the email. I just did my typical Proposal format but did not send the Terms & Conditions or the price. She will have plenty of reading and research to do over the weekend, I guess.
I'm still going to push for a meeting. Well, I shouldn't say push, I'm going to assume that the meeting we already have scheduled will occur so I can show her exactly what their house is lacking (the deck is especially bad) and exactly how we will fix their home. If she tries to cancel, I'm not going to be belligerent and still show up, but I will do my best to sell her on the need for the follow up visit.
We'll see.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Keep us posted on the outcome.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Well, it's not very timely, but here's an update.Last week we met and signed the Proposal. They are adding some exterior doors to the scope of work which should increase the job amount at least a few thousand. I also think we will get a chance to talk to them about remodeling their kitchen, but I'll count those chickens when the eggs hatch.Thanks to all for the advice.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Thanks You for the update. Sounds as if it is indeed working itself out. I am hoping to start posting soon in a thread I started about a job that has been on hold myself.
I needed to hear some success after today's go rounds :-(
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Good for you Jon, congrats.Jay
That's awesome Jon. I had to go back and refresh my memory.Did you ever find out why she wanted the proposal? Was she really studying it before you met or was she just trying to see the price to cancel you if it was outrageous?
I forgot to mention about that. Evidently, they showed our Proposal to the guy who built the house (I guess he doesn't work or do remodeling, I didn't really press the matter) and he said "definitely go with this one".
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
JonBlakemore
You did excatly right!
define what you intend to do and only give them numbers when you are there to close..
Ditto
Jon ,
Heres another take :
No problem of hubby not available , my idea would be to send her the scope and details of this proposal and make a lot of them , then ask her to review the details and make sure you have not over looked any details and make sure she is satisfied in your details and notes and lists of material types with grades of Lumber and any sheet goods that may be used , give her data .
Then ask if she is satisfied with the details and then you can work up the quote when you know no changes are needed and fax it off to her .
It seems like by her reviewing your bid she will be forced to read of the details you would have told her in person anyways instead of only looking at the bottom line $$$$.
good luck dusty
I wouldn't get too worked up about the husband not being there. I can recall two kitchen projects where I didn't meet the husband until I was unloading tools to start the job. The times I hate not meeting the husband is when he really does have a say in the decision and trys to swoop in at the last minute and negotiate to "save his wife from the nasty contractor". Offhand I can only think of one recently like that.
As far as e-mailing, I hate doing that too. What are the chances that she simply wants to forward it to her husband to review also????
In the Selling 101 thread Frenchy mentioned the phrase "If I....Will You...", and that opened a can of worms in that thread. But I think this is a situation where it would be used. You are giving up value by sending the proposal, what are you getting in return???
"Ms. Customer, I typically don't send proposals out, I prefer to present them in person. That way I can promptly answer any questions you have, and make sure we are on the same page with your project. If I send the proposal, and you review it, will you be ready to initiate the paperwork and down payment at our next meeting?"
That may be a little aggressive, but look for a little give and take from her side.
Oh well, just my two coppers.
Bowz