Replies

1. 
   g._gilbert | Jun 18, 1999 11:01pm | #12

   *
   Hey Now - You are being a bit mean !

   1. Yes, all builders who get permits or not are
   required to meet the building code. The code defines
   how much deflection and shear the porch must be able
   to handle. The only place it talks about withdrawal
   strength from a ledger (from the building it's partly
   attached to) is in the earthquake section of the
   code. That is, unless there is some wind load pulling the porch away
   from the house. I assume it is open, without walls, and therefore this
   is not the case. Without going any further, if you are not in a
   serious earthquake zone then common sense should help
   you out a lot. Attaching to mortar CAN work. There IS
   some resistance to withdrawal of bolts in a veneer
   wall. I would use galvanized lags at a conservative
   on center spacing. If the mortar is old and weak and
   the brick not well tied back to the backup wall
   (probably wood) then I would definitely get a big
   long lag and bolt through into the wood backup wall
   as you said.

   2. A telephone chat with a local structural engineer
   that does residential work would also help a lot. Ask
   a local architect for a referral. The engineer might
   have the number for brick or mortars withdrawal
   characteristics. Mortar is more or less like poured
   concrete. You can just add percentage fudge factors
   to account for the poor quality of the mortar, age, or for
   brick instead of mortar.

   Good luck.

2. 
   Guest_ | Jun 19, 1999 03:31am | #13

   *
   Guess that we should all stop asking questions since the answer to all seems to be "check the code". The code is the minimum that is required, it is not necessarily the best or safest or longest lasting or most cost effective way of doing things. The code is not a how to book. There are many ways of doing most jobs that will exceed the code requirements. I am not a do it yourselfer, this is what I do for a living and I have all of the required licenses to work in my state. It would be very silly to think that I could just check the code in order to find the best way of doing things. Lighten up, if you dont want to answer what you consider elementary questions then ignore them.

1. 
   Guest_ | Jun 19, 1999 05:32am | #14

   *Gee Charles,I was kinda hoping that we could get Vince to teach Andrew a thing or two about liability issues, what with Andrew being so naive and unedikated. After all, fat dumb happy and liberal is no way to go through life."The only dumb question is the one you were too embarrassed to ask."JonC

1. 
   Guest_ | Jun 19, 1999 05:50am | #15

   *Whoa-ho! Vince your comment #4 is a doozy. Enough to start a new post. Batten down the hatches, boys; she's gonna' blow tonight!

1. 
   Guest_ | Jun 19, 1999 07:29am | #16

   *Ha-ha-ha. Nah, I don't mind. This just reminds me of "My Cousin Vinny."As an attorney, i can tell you that Code compliance will not necessarily save you in a lawsuit. Nor will a violation necessarily sink you. The standard is negligence -- that is, did you act as a reasonable person would have. In other words, the CODE is not a substitute for THINKING.I took the most conservative course and drilled all the way through the brick (not brick veneer, check the question before you answer) so as to attach a bolted ledger. Heck, once I had a Bosch in my hands (rented for a for-pay job) why not? Figured a check with wiser heads might save some trouble -- anyway I would like to be able to evaluate the work of others which may not be so cautious. That is -- does it need repair or not?? This job is a freebie for an elderly feller that I hope to finish while he is still on this planet -- and before the rotten mess of a stair he has now kills him!!And JonC -- I ain't fat!

1. 
   Guest_ | Jun 19, 1999 07:50am | #17

   *Well, if you're the pretty one, what's that make me?JonC

2. 
   Guest_ | Jun 19, 1999 07:52am | #18

   *Hmmm ... you must be the one with the "great personality"

3. 
   Guest_ | Jun 19, 1999 07:58am | #19

   *This is exactly why I hated double dating.JonC

4. 
   Guest_ | Jun 19, 1999 05:30pm | #20

   *andrew d,

   May be you should go back to practicing law, hopefully you were better at it. . .

   Joseph FuscoView Image

3. 
   Guest_ | Jun 19, 1999 05:30pm | #21

   *
   Have gotten many conflicting answers. This is real brick, not veneer. Pullout strength is my central concern. Quick, easy, and idiot-proof always a big plus.

1. 
   Guest_ | May 15, 1999 08:31pm | #1

   *hey andrew - I wonder if you fasten to "a" brick, are you then relying on the mortor holding that brick in the wall to hold whatever your hanging off it? Seems questionable to me for vertical load, but downright scary for any type of "horizontal shifting" stability.man, that was a long dry week, huh? did you call about that sash hardware? Have a supplier if you come to dead end. - yb

1. 
   Guest_ | May 15, 1999 09:11pm | #2

   *VERY good point. I want to build a small stoop and stair for the old man on the street -- he's 81 and the stair he has now is so decayed i don't see how it supports itself. Need a stoop because his storm door swings out (though i guess the Code allows this?!?) and the mini-porch is so decayed and shaky that I refuse to attach to it. Also want to attach a short stair for a client to a brick wall in front of her porch, also decayed (porch). I'm still awkward at stairbuilding but it is fun.Anyway, the elevation is only 4 feet and I make sink the posts into the ground or, more likely, add braces so the thing can't rack. I just can't find anything authoritative on attaching to BRICK -- lots of stuff on attaching to concrete or "masonry" which I assume includes brick, but bricks are so small and brittle they seem a special case.Pretty darn cool: I did contact the window hardware company for a catalog - Vincent Whitney - but it was while this board was down and I couldn't exactly remember the name though I was sure it was in Sausalito CA. Rather than 411 hell I used the GTE online Yellow Pages and quickly identified it as a "Hardware-Manufacturer," even got a map of its location. Try it, it works well -- I LIKE the Web, it is organized in the same random associative way as my brain.Geez, here I am rambling and i have another burning masonry question. Decrepit porch #2 has a substantial gable roof supported at corners with 2 Ionic-style columns. These rest on the rotten T&G floorboards, which rest on top of a random stack of bricks atop a column of mortared CMU's. (A) this is unacceptable, right? (B) how do I fix it cheaply and without getting squished? There is no easy way to jack the roof from the ground below.

1. 
   Guest_ | May 19, 1999 07:40am | #3

   *Of course it's hard to say without seeing it, but it sounds like you'll have to temporarilly take weight off collums, pour footing, reframe portch, and set roof/collums back down. - yb

1. 
   Guest_ | May 19, 1999 07:52am | #4

   *That was my thinking too. Don't think the owners had in mind fixing problems they didn't know they had when they called me ... but I'm finding dozens of them.What kind of nitwits do these things? Never mind.

2. 
   Guest_ | May 19, 1999 06:45pm | #5

   *That reminds me, did you ever hear of that company "Wit Brothers Construction"? Run by three brothers - Nit Wit, Dim Wit, and Half Wit? Well there is a family here by the name of Whitt, and they do all kinds of stuff - logging, land development, lawyering - I get a chuckle every time I hear their name. - yb

3. 
   Guest_ | May 20, 1999 08:24am | #6

   *Andrew>What kind of nitwits do these things?Do you mean design buildings so they can't help but deteriorate? Is the name Frank Lloyd Wright familiar?? Make no mistake, I have a huge amount of respect for him but he did have a problem with his roof and foundation detailing.-pm

4. 
   Guest_ | May 21, 1999 08:06am | #7

   *Uh-oh, another FLW critic. next thing you'll be telling me that architects don't make the best builders (homeowner tells me that former owner of the place, an architect, was "really proud" of the stuff I'm removing).

5. 
   Guest_ | May 21, 1999 08:15am | #8

   *Andrew. . . what more could I add??

6. 
   todd_pickering | May 22, 1999 08:05am | #9

   *Andrew,You normally go into the mortar for brick anchors. I have tried some different kinds struggling for the best type. I've given up on sleeve-type -- about half of them seem to slip when I try to tighten them up. I think part of it is the difficulty of drilling a perfectly round 1/2" hole in concrete and aggregate. Ive tried a shot of polyurethane construction adhesive on all my anchors to help tighten things up -- cheap epoxy. So far it seems the old lag shield and galvanized lag is the most veratile and forgiving -- just get them deep enough. If you have a real concern about pull-out rather than a hanging load I would go with separate support posts.On your other question, MOST porches are sinking into the ground because of poor footings. I am rebuilding one right now.

7. 
   Guest_ | May 22, 1999 11:47pm | #10

   *I decided to pour my own footings instead of attaching to the building, at least I'll understand what's going on. On the porch, I'll jack the roof up and fix the pier support underneath. It looks like the supports were built by someone who knew what they were doing, I just hope there is a real footing because I'm tired of digging. Think the answer is yes because the porch is essentially level -- i just don't understand what happened that left the columns resting on stacks of bricks. The house is 100 y.o. and Mickey Mouse has visited many times.When is hollow concrete block used v. solid? HD sells both.

8. 
   Guest_ | Jun 18, 1999 09:44pm | #11

   *Have a couple of comments !!!1. If you are in the business of building and or repairing, what does the CODE require ???2. If you do this for a living and you don't follow code, you are liable for accidents, etc that may occur due to wrong or shoddy installation.3. Brick veneer or not, you need to drill all the way thru and attach your ledger board to the wall with carriage bolts.4. From your questions and comments, I highly recommend that you get into another line of work.