Ok, subtitle this “Or Why We Need Permits.”
This is next door, the house bought up last fall by the RE agent convinced flippin’ was easy and that the house would net a $50K profit with a coat of paint. That scheme did not work out so well. Despite replacing the kitchen and both bathrooms’ cabinets with cheaper, if more in-fashion ones.
Starts simple, there was an obvious patch in the wood siding (original to the house, circa 1953) where a window had been. 1398 SF house laready has three doors to the outside, so French doors off the dining room are clearly needed. That’s about 30″ above grade, so steps or a deck are called for (replacing the former stand-alone garage did not occur to these folks).
Here’s the whole site:
This is a tad closer:
This is just the gable:
Now, the observant among you may have noticed some things. Like how there’s a brand new window off there to the left. Yes, the guys prying the siding off busted the old wood-frame window. Yes, this house was sheathed in siding. The 15# felt is new, though–but only where ther siding was peeled away.
They did make sure to stuff the gaps in the french door frame chock full of FG though (papered over empty bays though).
Replies
Now, in all fairness, I should have taken more photos, this was happening right out my back door and all. But, some of it was so dumb, the pictures would not have done it justice.
So, let's look again.
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Note the yellow rope like obect--that's the cable run for the new lights (remembered just before close-up if my memory for Spanish expletives still holds).
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We have carefully flashed all the siding butts, too.
Enough with the suspense, there's the finished product:
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Yep, that's done.
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Last thing they did was prime every thing they had touched. Then, Tuesday, before Eduard hit us, a crew came in and blew cellulose into every wall but this one (or the bumpout you can barely see off to the left behind the tree; said bumpout is mostly 2x3 haphazardly put together).
Note the ownerless street sign and the two chairs. Realtor's baby brother appears to be moving in to go to one of our colleges in town.
Those brown spots are knotholes bleeding through (middle bro or RE boyfriend probably should not have power-washed before the insulators came around).
Several of you will have noted that there are only two stove bolts into the rim at each post, and that they are in the last eighth rather uniformly. I was out of town, so I cannot say what is behind the rims supporting the deck boards.
I'm not quite jaded enough to actually crawl under and look. Have overheard the conversation "When are they finishing the deck?" with "Oh, it's done" from over the fence though--so that is the finished railing.
Spiffy, huh?
well at 30" they don't need a railing.but it would look better if they took off what they have there..
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
It looks like they still need to paint.
like they still need to paint
Yeah, but it has rained every third day since Eduard, and it's been the last two weeks before school starts--there are around 10-12,000 apartments painted in that time (and , mostly, every year at this time).Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
well at 30" they don't need a railing.
City says 24", and if you gripe they will have you comply with ADA which needs a toe stop if 12" or more.
I'm afraid they toenailed 2x6 @ 24" centers the 6-7' spans there, and then counted on the miracle 5/4 deck boards for the rest.
Deck went from posts to as you see in one calendar day with just three hombres working (cutter, holder, nailer).Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
I think it is also a nice touch how the siding courses don't line up from the front to the side of the house.
Also, it could be an optical illusion, but the first stair riser down from the deck appears much shorter than the rest. That always makes for an interesting walk down the stairs.
Maybe they bought the precut stringers from the big box and just made them work as best they could. ;)
You cannot convey tone in an email.
it could be an optical illusion, but the first stair riser down from the deck appears much shorter than the rest.
It looks to me like the stairs are set off the corner of the deck a bit, and that it IS and optical illusion about that top step.
OTOH, the guy across the street from me had some new steps built last year to get up to his mid-entry, and the carpenter working on it was there for a week. 5 steps up to a landing, turn 90 degrees right and then 5 more up to the front door. And the last step up to the landing is like 4" and all the rest are 5".
Makes me nuts to look at it, much less walk up to the front door.
Edited 8/22/2008 6:29 pm ET by geoffhazel
Edited 8/22/2008 6:30 pm ET by geoffhazel
yea i know a builder that can't cut stairs and buys them precut and makes them work makes money hand over fist don't know how some guys do it
I've never seen an application where those precuts actually work.
Its just easier to cut your own.
Family.....They're always there when they need you.
Yep I agree. It amuses me the amount of people that just stumble along.
I like the "header" above the double doors.
Chuck Slive, work, build, ...better with wood
I like the "header" above the double doors
Yeah, I snapped on that, too--but it is a gable wall and parallel to the joists.
Mind you, your comment just wigged me into realizing that they put a 5-0 door into a 4-0 window opening, which is likely where the prying off the left-hand siding board busted the kitchen window <g>.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
It's a non bearing wall ... I would have done the same ... get more insulation in that way. I built a new house and had no headers on gable end wall windows ... only the bearing wall openings got headers.
Look again Chuck. The blocking that they added lines up with the other window on the left. There's probably a headed above the exposed area that we can't see.
Of course, depending on what size window they removed to make way for the door, it may be a foot short on each side!
Good thing it's a gable.The best reward for a job well done is the opportunity to do another.
5 steps up to a landing, turn 90 degrees right and then 5 more up to the front door. And the last step up to the landing is like 4" and all the rest are 5".
And that folks, is EXACTLY why we have building codes ... so the innocent visitor walking up your steps doesn't fall on his face because his gait was interrupted by a riser that is much different than the rest.
Edited 8/25/2008 11:31 pm ET by Clewless1
Where is the gate?
His gate, man ... I mean his gait ... whatever ... never claimed to spell write. :)
snorK*
I think it is also a nice touch how the siding courses don't line up from the front to the side of the house.
Made me look. Original siding did match, new does not (seems to match the patch, not the field).
Also, it could be an optical illusion, but the first stair riser down from the deck appears much shorter than the rest. That always makes for an interesting walk down the stairs.
Well, that stringer is only the width of the 4x4 over--and then the width to the next post--made me look again, I can't glass that side without being scaling the fence (which might be a tad obvious, and "I'm making you famous online" is likely to be miss interpreted <g>). But, I'd not be at all surpise, zooming in on the original photo, that that top step is around an inch shorter than the rest. The photo of the precut stringers in a pile with every thing else did not turn out well (wierd glare from the angle washed out the CCD, dang it--but was not going all the wayt back in the house for the polarizing filter).
Here's what gets me. All that effort and set in posts--none of which were going for City review anyway. Why not put a single-car carport while they are at it? (Ok, 'cause I would have emailed Head BI, but they don't know that.) The kid who is linving in this "bachelor pad' has a spiffy, brand-new sports car which will get bird droppings, and later in the fall, resin drops from the two cedars on my property edge, on it.
If they were not planning on car parking, why make the deck so small? Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
First party he has you need to set up a webcam so we wager on how soon and how many drunk coeds do a header off the steps.TFB (Bill)
you need to set up a webcam so we wager on how soon and how many drunk coeds do a header off the steps
He's a fish (and looks barely 17), he may no know enough women to have any fall off the deck <g>).
Besides, until the dew points drop under 55-66º the sensible girls will be inside with the 60-70" plasma tv.
I do know where I'd spot the cam, though, been up that tree before--getting enough cable for the cam could be dicey, though.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
CMac,
I am not saying I fully agree with all that the "hombres" did but I think I agree less with your nit-picking of the situation. The workmanship seems pretty average and much better than what I see on a daily basis as a professional remodeler. I see you are in the construction trades somewhere so I assume you know a lot about what can be done with a lot of money but should also be aware of what most homeowners and worse yet, house flippers want....Cheap,cheap,cheap. In my opinion the flippers in this situation are above their average. And while I know well I am above the level of the "hombres" I think back to when I was starting out and all of the "questionable" things I did before knowing right from wrong. I think we can all agree that at least one of everyone's past projects have "questionable" aspects.
My father in law is a flipper who readily admits that he would fill a hole in the drywall with toothpaste if he could get away with it; Meanwhile I am going broke trying to "fix-up" a repo house that I would like to sell off someday.
This isn't an attack on you or a rant, simply another point of view as I remember being one the "hombres" trying to make a buck off of a cheap@ss homeowner who could care less about the workmanship or cost down the line only about the cost up front.
gk
Maybe I missed something, but I didn't think the OP was directing any judgementalism toward the workers - it felt more like he was making light of a situation where the craftsmanship we strive for is undervalued.
While the term "nit-picking" seems to indicate overly-critical faultfinding, none of the faults exposed here seemed to me to be within acceptible standards on a quality home remodel.
Yes, I still deal with the "cheaper is better" mentality, almost every day. And I too have been forced to compromise my standards to meet my clients' requests, on more occasion than one!
But it's therapeutic for me to come here, and see there are still people out there who find unacceptable work to be, well, unacceptable.
Its a fact of human nature that the more refined our personal standards become, the more in tune we become with what qualifies as substandard - just look at the great virtuosos in the music and art world. Do you think you could convince Beethoven that pop or rap music today is above average, and therefore acceptable? Or do you think an artistic genius like Rembrandt or Van Gogh could view the work of a trite but popular artist like Thomas Kinkade and not have a negative comment?
I say the Beethovens and Van Goghs of the contracting world have to have a venue to express their frustation at the lowering of acceptibility standards, and if this is that venue, then I'm happy to be here and be a part of it.
Like you said, I hope my post isn't viewed as an attack on you or a rant, simply another point of viewView Image “Good work costs much more than poor imitation or factory product†– Charles GreeneCaliforniaRemodelingContractor.com
who find unacceptable work to be, well, unacceptable
And, I could let the "we didn't bother to insulate the open wall" slide; I'd even forego the permits being skipped over, really.
Nope, it's the single railing.
The sill of the new french door is 30-32" above grade, but co back and look at the steps and count them--that outside deck edge is 40-42" above grade. That railing is only nailed on, too. That front rail runs about 8' unsupported, the side, about 60 inches. It rains 36" a year here on average, the humidity runs from 40-80% all twelve--the nailholes through the rails will loosen. That's assuming they do not go all pretzle-like first. These things happen in my town.
Even back in my leanest days, I would not have left that deck open that way. (Probably would have laced some of that ugly yellow polypropelene, clove-hitched to every post on my own time and dollar.)Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
"These things happen in my town."If that's the worst of your town then you'd probably have a coronary heart attack seeing what I do around my neck of the woods. 'Tis some of the finest "yankee ingenuity" you ever seen. In the house I live now (the repo project mentioned earlier) I thought I was just going to have to rebuild the roof that was sagged out 2" from a DIY addition in 1990. Just another case of somebody who doesn't know enough trying to engineer their own cathedral roof. That's what I thought. Nope...gotta tear down the whole thing and start over. Block wall is bowed in 3" because of no gutters, no perimeter drain in clay soil, and no water proofing to boot. There is a 1-1/2" hill in the middle of the 16'x 16'6" room due to the reuse of rotted lumber. Ah, just put the worst two in the middle and stick some posts under them. Not to mention they are 2x8's spanning 16'6". Everything else sagged except the two in the center. Then there's the spot in the floor that was apparently supposed to be the basement stairs someday. I say "why is this spot so bouncy?????Oh must be that 32" x 40" spot in the floor w/o framing under it. blah, blah, blah, too bad for me...and worse for me to have standards of construction; I go broke but at least I walk away knowing that it's either code or better. I ain't flaming anyone. I HATE substandard work. I HATE more those who intentionally try to make money off of it. I see I was wrong but I thought you were trying to make less of a point about standard safety and more of a point about how the crew was a bunch of morons. sorry.As for the railing...makes me think of FHB high end feature homes where maybe the HO wanted a nautical theme so all the deck rails and spindles get replaced with a sagging rope. Same danger, more money, and all the people just say how beautiful and crafty.Geez.gk
...HO wanted a nautical theme so all the deck rails and spindles get replaced with a sagging rope...
I believe that's called form before function.
ja mein lieber meister!
maybe the HO wanted a nautical theme so all the deck rails and spindles get replaced with a sagging rope.
Which is funny on two levels.
One, they are done, Big Sis the RE is happy with the job (or paid for it at least).
Two, at sea, you want taut rigged lifelines, loose ones will either drown you or not catch you before going over the side. Slack lifelines are lubber's work <g>.
Nah, all goes back to the RE not doing her research. That house was built in 1953. It still has most of its original wood siding, and no sheathing under that. It retains more than 90% of its original galvanized plumbing, too. It has about 80% of its first-generation "romex" (no ground) as well. The footings are precast 15" x 30" x 3" set in holes dug in the ground with 12" x 24" x 18" pier blocks set on those (except for two repairs, which have cmu; and the "third" bedroom which was built on the concrete encloed patio--a whole 'nuther tale there). Framing is 50's #2 (so a bit better than modern framing stock) but undersized by about two sizes. House has no garage, the 18' x 20' carshed having fallen over about 15 years ago.
This house is the one that she thought a coat of paint and some (very cheap) KD cabinets would net a $50K profit in only a month--that was nearly two years ago <g>.
So, the deck, and the wiring, are fully in keeping with the way the owner looks at the house.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
You're from Michigan! that explains everything! :)
just funnin ya!
Yeah, so?You're from OHIO, I'm sorry to hear about that ;)gk
I had mentioned the funky steps across the street and finally got a picture. Enhanced with some lines to show the bottoms and tops of the risers and steps. The last step up to the landing is 4 inches and all the rest are 7 inches. Given that the front door and the bottom of the steps are not flexible, the only real fix here is to rip it all apart and start over.
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Edited 9/6/2008 1:23 am ET by geoffhazel
Edited 9/6/2008 1:25 am ET by geoffhazel
No...you don't have to rip them all out and start over but that might be easier than the alternative.
I'm not sure which is more disturbing.The 4 inch step, or the fact that you snuck over there at night with an infrared camera to take a picture of it.;o)
Signed: Bubba Hussein Obamalama.
Bananafana-bo-bama
Fe-fi-fofama
Bamalaama
What a fool believes he sees
No wise man has the power, to reason away
Click here for access to the Woodshed Tavern
Lol.. Infrared camera...it's the flash on my blackberry phone....
ROFLMAO
Signed: Bubba Hussein Obamalama.
Bananafana-bo-bama
Fe-fi-fofama
Bamalaama
What a fool believes he sees
No wise man has the power, to reason away
Click here for access to the Woodshed Tavern
Great pics. Compared to out in the sticks, that's "high end."
I saw a guy build a deck off a house with it setting on two 55 gallon drums.
Didn't even have matching colors...
This isn't an attack on you or a rant, simply another point of view as I remember being one the "hombres" trying to make a buck off of a cheap@ss homeowner who could care less about the workmanship or cost down the line only about the cost up front.
Well, there's several things going on here, admittedly.
Number one is that the RE gal has put her brother in this thing (since it won't sell at 160% of market), and sibling rivalry is ont thing, leaving them railing-less decks is another.
The other thing is, I've always had to comply with the rules out there. Both because the rules are there for generally good rasons, but also because I planned to be in this biz this long. Now, "Daryl and my other brother Derrel" might be doing good work; could be better than average work even. But, if they buried the splice in the electrical where they powered up the new lights and the place burns down, that's no good. If they accidentally have a "how many fish fit on a deck" contest and the deck loses--that's not good either. (Especially since that means I get to go next door with the Unit 3 bag while we get triage set up--le frères Derryl are not likely to be nearby to help.)
Was fun, last night, watching about 12-15 folks tramping in and out of all four doors in that house (even better when they discovered the laundry room bump out was locked at the kitchen door).
Now, I am glad that the deck is free-standing--and not laged (or nailed) into the gable wall structure.
Oh well.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)