I haven’t known anyone around here to use pump jacks. I’m sure some guys are, but I haven’t seen them.
The houses we build are typically sided and painted off ladders and, sometimes, pipe scaffold. Considering that such a thing as pump jacks exist, this seems stupid. But I’ve never had the chance to try them.
I did a search and read quite a bit about them in past threads, but I have some questions that weren’t answered, because I’m completely unfamiliar with how they work.
How difficult are they to erect? How long would it take two people to set up, say, two 24′ aluminum poles + plank? Is it critical to get them dead-on plumb, say, or just kinda?
How quickly do they move, to pump up and crank down? Do they become much more difficult to pump up if there’s a load on the plank, like a heavy window?
I ask because. . . well, I have my reasons. We won’t be getting any at work, unfortunately, which means I’ll get plenty more practice setting up and tearing down pipe scaffold. 😛
But I’d really like to learn more.
Replies
I cn set up my 24' wood poles and have a walkboard riding up in less than a 1/2 hour by myself. I stand a ladder, bring the pole over with the climber and brace attached, stand it up next to the ladder and go up with a screwer or hammer and getthe top set where I want it.
Then down and reset the base on a solid hunk of 2x12 or such..repeat. Add the walk board ( whatever width) and start pumping one side at a time ( DUH, I'm alone) and there ya are. IF you left the ladder close enough you can leave walk board UP and descend the ladder, then reset it more safely to the walk board from the ground.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
Sometimes to stand up the taller poles I lay them out perpendicular to the house, loop a small rope to the pole top, climb the ladder to the roof whilst carrying other end of rope and haul the pole top up with the rope, leaving it leaning on the wall. Pumping up is a breeze, cranking down can be a pain. I usually sit on the board during crank down, not only can you see what it catches on at the pole but "jumps" are not unsettling. I highly reccomend the workbench/guardrail attachment, makes it a bunch more fun up there.
Yeah. . . Just got the news from the realtor: our offer's been accepted, so we'll soon be the proud owners of a 150 farm-house (now in down-town). It's two-storeys, I'm thinking of re-siding a few years down the road. And yes, I'd pay a few thousand dollars for some useful scaffolding. I'm always going to need to get up there for something.And who knows, maybe I'll go pro as a siding contractor after I'm done. :P
Here, no siding subcontractor operates without aluminum pole pump jacks. It amazes me that you say they are not used where you live. I'm not a sider - I just hire them, but I've watched them set up and take down any number of times. Again, here, a siding crew is a minimum of 3 guys. Two "hangers" (for lack of a better term) and one cut man, so maybe that is why I've always seen the poles erected by three guys... Two on the ground and one on the roof who sets the roof braces. I've noticed that it's always the low man on the totem pole who goes up on the roof.
As far as buying them for incidental use - I'd have to question the economics of that. Plus you need to store them somewhere... You could probably find a good deal on some used ones if you really wanted.
I have quite a large outbuilding that will serve for storage. Not a problem at all.Anyways - concerning the economics of it - completely residing the house isn't 'incidental.' :-) It's my "free" time, so whatever I do had better be efficient and easy, because "free" hours are tough to get. And it's my arse, so it'd better be safe, too.To hire it out, well, no thanks.And I'm committed to a career in building/carpentry, so you never know when they'll come in handy professionally. If I find they sit around for five years, then I'll sell them online.Edit: I haven't met a lot of siding crews, but yeah, it's weird. The guy who used to side our houses is scared of any kind of scaffold, especially pumps, but doesn't mind ladders. Seems backwards to me.Our company recently started using a different crew and again, nothing but ladders. I can't get my head around it. I drove past a subdivision that was mostly vinyl, and the siding crews had all their ladders chained together to prevent theft. . . musta been a dozen. I don't get it, either.
Edited 1/24/2009 1:06 pm ET by Biff_Loman
I wonder if it is some Canadian law not to use?
I'll have to ask about that. I wonder.
Craig's list.
Post a "WTB" (wanted to buy) ad under the tools heading and the calls will flood in. There's probably a zillion crews out there wishing they could unload some gear right now.
I did this last year and came up with 3 qual craft jacks, 6 braces and a 20' aluminum plank for less than 500$
Pat
Easy to erect solo.
I lay the pole on the ground, perpendicular to the foundation, with the base up against the house's foundation. I walk out to the "top" of the pole, lift it over my head, then walk towards the foundation, standing the pole up as I go.
I then lift the pole vertically and pull the base out a few feet from the foundation. Hike up a ladder and secure the arm up top.
Two people setting up two poles and a plank would take about 15-20 minutes. I plumb them by eye.
Pumping up or cranking down is easy solo, easier with two. There's really not much difference with or without a load. You just pump or crank depending on which way you're going.
Using wood poles takes some getting used to due to the bobbing and weaving, bending and flexing. Switching to alumapoles is a serious upgrade, very very nice. Today I would never ever put a crew up on wood pumps.
You don't have the working space or load capacity with pumpjacks that you do with scaffolding, but I only see that as a concern for masons.
And roofers too !
don't say that walter
---- I am very seriously thinking of attempting my own version of "recession related douchebagism" and see if I can score a nice used alumapole set-up on Craigslist. I have been doing a lot of work the past few years off of a werner pic on ladder jacks which I Really like for speed of set up------but there is no gaurdrail.
stephen
Stephen,
I was talking about the weight handling issue mostly - 2 sq's of slate isn't kosher on Aluma poles.
I've got a bunch of sets of them I've picked up at auction , local swap paper , and another contractor going out and needing two truck payments , but I loan them out far more often than I use them.
You can set them up quickly , but they're more suited to siders due to their stand off distance to the wall I feel. I agree back rails are easier to attach to them than decks on ladder jacks , but I still like my pipe stagings best.
5' wide platforms for plenty of storage , easy to erect rails , able to carry large weight loads , etc.
I know for re roofing of comp. shingles it doesn't make sense to take that much time to erect something to work from though.
Walter
what I would really like is a safe gaurdrail that could clamp on to a werner pic that was clamped on ladder jacks.
quick and efficient--- I don't need the up and down versatility that siders do
stephen
Stephen,
Look at lynn Ladders site for an iron stanchion that has u bolts to accept aluminum 2x4's - these bolt onto most aluminum walk planks.
I use a lot of them when I set up a big job
Walter
thanks walter- I will do so momentarilyStephen
Stephen,
Heres the part number for the item I talked about in an earlier post.
http://www.lynlad.com/catalog/item/1965949/1713285.htm
walter-- I called a place in cleveland that is 30-40 minutes away from me----- i have bought several ladders, pics, ladder jacks, ladder racks for 2 different trucks etc. they can order me the following set up
approx. 5 brackets that bolt to the werner plank( apparently the werner plank is pre drilled already for these brackets) 5 uprights that simply drop into the bracketsa series of rails that ubolt onto the uprightsso-- i set up the ladders and ladder jacks--
the pic I already own sets on the jacks--the uprights drop into the brackets---u-bolt the rails to the uprights Of course I gotta make sure the ladders are secured to the house, the jacks to the ladders and the pic to the jacks--------
but seems very flexible and adaptable to what we already do
AND doesn't require a bracket mounted to the roof with a little bit of thought- I bet we can still set up, tear-off and re-shingle one side of our typical house in 6-7 working hours---and be safer.It seems like i would actually use it- i am not certain I would use the aluma pole set up as much as i shouldstephen--(out the door for $435)
Stephen -
We use our alumapole set ups when there is expensive landscaping below, the eave is a long way from the ground, or it would be hard to get the tear off to the trailer. We use them to move the debris up in the air rather than letting it hit the ground in tough access situations.
We recently tore off and reshingled a mansard roof over a strip mall. Most of the stores had awnings and we had to allow access to the shops. Alumapoles saved the day. We were able to tear off into a wheelbarrow up on the pics and wheel it to the bank drive thru lane where we had our trailer parked at the end of the mall. The nets caught 99% of the small debris and everyone was happy. http://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
I was never too thrilled about the jacks , constantly stepping over the braces and dumping my pouches..but those nets make it all worth it..stashing tools, and stock.. trash catcher. Can't be beat.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
Good job Stephen,
I thought on the way back from the coast this morning that set up would be more suitable for your usage than the Lynn parts. It's much easier for a quick set up and tear down than the ones I use.
Sometimes mine might stay in one place for a month or more - so an extra hours time isn't as crucial as your up / down in one day.
Still buy some Aluma Poles - like Grant said sometimes they're all that will work in a given situation.
Walter
Walter- i am just a young pup at 46- but in 20 plus years I have never been in a situation doing this where pump jacks were necissary.
I am not saying I haven't had a few where they wouldn't have been helpfull--------- but never necissary.in the spring of 2007 I had hoped to me almost all the way out of roofing by now--- but a hail storm in june 2007 put the kabash on THAT dream. My sons are largely grown-the youngest is largely self supporting-- the oldest has another year of college--but at this point my need to EARN is greatly reduced---- i have been kind of semi-retired since July2,2008
what i have learned from that is---Retirement is boring-really frustratingly boring.
Physically I can still lead from the roof( if I work smart)---- so what I am planning to do this spring is hire a youngster---grossly over pay him( LOL) and teach him to do things my way--- possibly a few years from now I can step back a bit--in the meantime roofing will generate some $$$$ that my wife and I want to fund a couple scholarships with. I work in a confined neighborhood so basically I am roofing variations of the same 5-6 types of houses-- the aluma pole hasn't been needed yet. we will do one side the house today---- the other side tommorrow, porches and garage the next day and then we are outa there-like that. Every thing set up and taken down each day so ladder jacks and a pic are immensley flexible for this. Btw-- not to jinx myself- but I may be doing a new roof in slate this year. for the purposes of conversation we will call it a new carriage house and if we do it I think it will be a fun photo thread for breaktime
Stephen
Stephen,
I'm a dozen years older than you and I still love doing the work. It's been cold and snowy here lately so I haven't been as active as normal and I can feel the boredom creeping in.
Next week it will warm up and I'll get more active again - my mood and sleep habits will improve too.
Looking forward to the upcoming carraige house slate thread. If you want a Shutterfly album on how I do my brackets - let me know. Both Sphere and Seeyou liked the idea If I remember correctly.
Walter
Unless Grant got hungry for firewood, I believe he still has some that we made back then. I know a few are still on a job that the owner quit on..they've been up for going on a year and a half!Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
I'm quoting a "pool house " now down the coast a ways that has a 15/12 pitch with 4 gables and 4 long valleys and all 4 gables are truncated.
If it's a go I'll need to make a bunch of wooden ones for that pitch.
We just made a bunch for the "fake" slate job. If the weather ever breaks, we'll finish that job and I'll get some pix. We've got maybe 3 hrs to finish, but it has to be above 45F to work on it.http://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
Grant,
Looking forward to some pictures of that project.
Did you open the pdf file to look at the prospective job for me on the coast?
Walter
Hope you guys don't get slammed too hard with ice.
We're getting left overs tomorrow nite with 9" to 14" of the white stuff.
well- the customer has to make up his mind--if we do it I will take plenty of pic's
stephen
Did you open the pdf file to look at the prospective job for me on the coast?
Yeah - looks like quite a project. I didn't peruse it too hard - I've been pouring over pdf plans the biggest part of the day. Good luck getting it.http://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
Hows work looking for you guys for Spring and Summer ?
Are you feeling any effects yet ?
I'm too small to see any difference yet.
We probably won't be doing any shingling for a long time. Everybody's fighting over the few jobs there are. I'm letting 'em go rather than drop prices. We've shed most of the laborers necessary for shingling and are concentrating on fancier work. We've got a couple of good size half round gutter jobs, a 70 or so sq cu standing seam job, some small box gutter and porch jobs, and about $50K worth of flashing related stuff on one job. I've got about 10-15 good size chimney caps to fab, and I just sold about $9K worth of stuff off my website today (the cherry is popped). I think we're gonna be doing diamond copper shingles on a large mcmansion turret and I've bid about 25 other jobs this month, so some of them will happen. So, to answer your question, we're good 'til warm weather and it's the type of work we like. But, I'm having to chase my money. People are paying really slow.http://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
Keep pushing them vents!Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
The small ones fell through. Shipping killed us.http://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
Bummer. But I can see why, can go much farther west without getting wet.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
Should be more profit in the fancy work where there are fewer folks who can produce the craftmanship necessary to please the most astute .
Sounds like you're quoting up a storm no pun intended <G>
Oh yeah -I was concentrating on the local work. Looks like we're gonna take it on the road for a couple of BT'er barter jobs shortly.http://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
Walter, You call that a "pool house?"Goodness gracious, I'd be insulted to use a lowly structure such as that for anything other than a shelter for my gold-plated unwanted household good bins...err...refuse receptacles.I'd love to chat more, but my butler's butler is here with my evening tea.Toodles...
I'm not sure what I'd call it other than a great chance to get paid to practice my slating skills. Gettin' rusty here with all this snow and cold.
Rumor has it this structure this year , 9000 sq.' guest house next year and then the main house in 2011.
If I do a good job on the " pool shed " maybe I'll get to practice some more !!!
Rumor has it this structure this year , 9000 sq.' guest house next year and then the main house in 2011.
I did one of those fancy pool houses about 10 years ago with the same sort of schedule. The pool house got finished, but there's no pool yet and the other structures never came about. Nice pool house, though.http://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
Easy to erect solo.
not 36' aluma poles.
set and reset some on Fri.
being between 2 tight city houses didn't help ... nor did the power lines ... nor the neighbors shrubs ... nor anything else.
Plus ... finding studs in the old house added to the fun.
2 guys.
work nearly killed us ... just beat us up for 7 hrs ... and in the end ... looked too much like when we started!
for the second one ... had to do the rope thru the brace trick.
also fun ... with houses being so close ... is having to work off the top of ladders set at too steep an angle. Some of the higher drilling required 2 ladders .. one guy to do the work ... the other to climb up, hug his ladder with one arm ... and push the other guy into his ladder so he didn't push himself off while pushing the drill.
what a freaking day ... thinking it'll be the last one like that though.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Don't worry Jeff...<sing along with Mongo>...the sun will come out, tomorrow, bet your last Traquir that tomorrow, ther'll be sun...
if I had any Traquiar they'd a come out around noon yesterday!
we even had to screw in the braces three times ...
'cause the first two they didn't fold down flat as we'd need to ride past them.
third time ... after positioning and repositioning ....
put them pretty much in the same screw holes ...
they folded.
one of those days where the batteries only died after being carried to the top of the ladder. Every screw needed the driver tip that was down below ... if ya needed 8 fasterners ... ya had 7 in the pouch. That sorta thing.
I think my helper nailed it ... mid day ... he said obviously the weather was working against us. It was sunny and high 40's.
so far ... every day's been rain/sleet/snow with averages around 20's and lows in single digits. He thot the weather threw us off ... said obviously we need a challange!
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
I feel your pain, I always call days like that the astrological curse of "Mercury in Retrograde" Everything is FU'ed for no reason.
My day was aout the same, but big hex was a bad back flaring up, and working around the HO's stupid bushes and dogwood trees as I tried to wriggle the ladder with bull horns up. Then once up with another 8' step ladder on the sloping porch..setting down the expandable pic without knocking one or the other ladder over.
Finally get up and start cutting battens to remove old metal roof, switch on the saw ( the stupid "safty" button) won't allow the trigger to work when the saw is laying on its side riding along a 2x6. Everytime I move a branch grabs my pouches and dumps my nails and driver tips in the bushes. Get the saw working ( the old hit with a hammer trick) and the batt dies after 2' of 6' of cutting.
Had to deliver a big part to Grant in AM , left the DW radio ( and only HOT battery) at home, so's I could fit everything for the far away job after him.
I cut the branch now it only jabs me in coin purse when I go down the ladder...back is really sore. 3hours of that, and then repeat on the other side for 3 hours.
Oh yeah, Impacts are great for breaking your last #2 phillips you can FIND even though you KNOW you a zillion,,,AND the New Kobalt Hex Drive quick change #10 Drill w/ countersink is just a SMIDGE too big for the Makita impact...if this happens to you, DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES HAMMER THE MF'ER in the chuck..it WILL take you a half hour to get it out and require a BIGGER hammer and visegrips and another person to drive the van forward JUST enough to get the impac driver under the tire so that you can now get the wonder bar on the visegrips, while holding the release, while beating the living snot out of it.
Then move the van and get to work again..it also makes a lot of sense to shut the van off so you are not getting a face full of exhaust, while your wife/helper sits in it with the heater on, while you are performing the "Bit-Ectomy".
Then drive sitting sideways while phoning your chriopracter and telling him "Wait for me, I'm coming in..be there in an hour if traffic ain't too thick" , Then turn on the headlights and scare people outta your way like all them drivers we like to bitch about.
Yeah, it was a great day..but it's a wrap and the check is in the mail. For sure, he called yesterday and wants me back for a bunch of new stuff..hooray.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
I used pump jacks when I added a 2nd story to my cabin in NH. I did not buy the aluminum poles but made my own out of 2X4's staggered and nailed together. I also used 2X12's instead of the expensive planks they sell. The only downside I saw was nailing the braces into the house. A little nail filler took care of the holes.
They were much cheaper than renting scaffolding.
Attached picture shows my helper (wife).
Jim
You're smarter than me. Om occasion I'd put a ladder up on the planking itself to reach a tall gable.Oh, the good old daze, when I was young, dumb, and thought I was bulletproof. I mean it's not dangerous if you don't recognize danger, right?<sigh>Good man working along with your wife, the cabin looks sharp.
I went and looked at some pump jacks today, I'm trying to acquire some on FB marketplace . There where no holes in the alum a pole brand poles .I was gonna try to build a rack to go on my 5x10 trailer but concerned with them possibly sliding and what not. does anyone haul theirs regularly if so how is your trailer set up 24 ft is a lot of stick out for my 10 ft trailer
Ladders are inferior to pump jacks for a variety of reasons. Safety is undoubtedly a top concern if you've ever painted a two-story house or put siding from a height on a ladder. Pump jacks are made to construct a mobile scaffold system that enables you to securely approach the work area.