Wandering through HD today, saw a display of blue levels from Empire. The wrapper says the vials are made in USA, but the level is assembled in China.
Proudly emblazoned on the wrapper is the statement something like “maximum accuracy 0.005″ in any position”.
So I get to wondering … does that mean that the level could be only as good as 1/2″ per foot and still be within spec? Does it mean that the level will never be any better than 0.005″? Shouldn’t the statement have been “minimum accuracy 0.005”?
“When asked if you can do something, tell’em “Why certainly I can”, then get busy and find a way to do it.” T. Roosevelt
Replies
What do you want? The thing is assembled in China.
Maybe they meant maximum error at 0.005." But then again, maybe not. ;-)
"A job well done is its own reward. Now would you prefer to make the final payment by cash, check or Master Card?"
They probably write all the packaging copy in China, too.
Imagine the chinese engineer explaining the instrument's capability to the chinese gal who writes the english package copy.
She not only misinterprets him, but she learned english only sorta OK, so she churns out the statement you see on the level wrapping.
Maybe if everybody turns over their package copy work to some Dubai-owned firm, things will get better! ;-)
0.005"
Isn't that 5 one thousandths?
How did you translate that to 1/2" on a foot?
BTW, I bought one a couple of weeks ago and I like it.
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It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
Eddie's from TX. Everything is oversized there.
Ok rookie, turn the tv off and listen close ... I'm only gonna 'splain this one time ...
I was being sarcastic, in conjunction with the original post. If the "maximum" accuracy is 0.005" then by definition essentially anything the bubble reads is good. 1/2" per ft is a really cheap level. But since it's less than 0.005" then it is with the marketing spec.
Ok?
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
..........."we are able to mold our durable, armored vials to meet the most exacting tolerances possible, within 0.0005" per inch in all 10 level and plumb working positions."
I'd like to know those ten positions. I can only come up with 6 or 8.[email protected]
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
FWIW, the .0005" per inch accuracy comes out to .029 degrees, the same as that claimed by Stabila spirit levels. I think the idea is that they said the maximum error, not maximum accuracy is .0005"/" Pretty much same for all good levels, at least out of the box. Reputation is what tells me whether to believe it every day.
Hope this helps. Rich.
Good question. Put a mark on one end of the level.
Level: mark left, mark right ... that's two
Plumb: mark up, mark down ... that's two more
So I come up at least 2 short of your answer.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Flip it. Read flip, turn flip.
That makes your answer x 2.
Maybe we need to offer up some milkbones?
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It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
I almost bought the same level. But was skeptical of the error rate. Is there a simple way to determine the accuracy of a level once bought or after I kick it off a ladder? I am a DYI - whatever that means - so please give the instructions like you were talking to your 5 yr old.
The 10 positions - get the book, "Karma Sutra for Levels" - its a real page turner.
Mike C
Yup, there's a really easy way to determine the accuracy of a level. Find a surface that reads flat (or plumb) with your level. Then turn your level around, and make sure it still reads flat or plumb. FYI, you may also want to make sure to slightly lift one end of the level, and make sure that the bubble moves. I was putting ceramic tile in my basement a while ago, and I picked up a cheap Stanley level at Coscto for the job (I'm 26; this is my first house; cut me some slack.) I couldn't figure out why the floor didn't look level until I realized that I could lift one end of the level about a quarter inch before the bubble even started to move. Grr.At least I got a straightedge out of the deal. ;).
Thanks - but considering your experience maybe its worth the $$ to buy quality on such things as levels tape measures and angle measures.Mike C
maybe its worth the $$ to buy quality
Definately true for a level. There's no moving parts or batteries to wear out. Treat it with a little care and it will last forever.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
I generally try to avoid cheap tools, unless its for something that is virtually single use (Like buying a cheap circular saw to cut concrete to rough in a basement bath, so I dont tear up my worm drive.)The things that have burned me, though, are the "kind of" cheap tools. A twenty buck level isnt going to be a family heirloom, but I would have expected virtually any name brand (and yes, I *did* consider Stanley to be a name brand) would have resolution significantly better than 1/8 per foot. I wasnt expecting a level that would do cabinets; just one that I couldn't lift an end by 1/2" without moving the bubble. On a similar note, I bought a PC angle grinder a couple of years ago that died in 45 minutes. And my PC reciprocating saw is now on its last legs after about five hours of use. It looks like I'm going Red or Yellow from now on.
my PC recp. saw is still going strong after five (5) years of utter abuse.
Good point chilehead. Hope this doesn't sidetrack the thread but how accurate can laser levels be with such small vials mounted in plastic housings that turn? Outside of foundation work I don't see any advantage to them. What am I missing?
I bought a set of those blue empire levels: 24", 48" 72". I am very satisfied with them. Dead nut on. But I have some homemade cases that I store them in and I'm very careful about how I treat them. They're better than the Stanley Fat Max levels, for sure.
Empire warranties them for accuracy, so if they ever go "bad", they'll repair or replace.