Replies

1. 
   DanH | Oct 22, 2008 03:59am | #1

   No "system" to it, you just go slow. There's likely to be some minor cracking, but if you take it slow enough (and 1/8" a day is probably slow enough) then the cracking can be minimized.

   You do have to plan things out so that once you get things jacked you can permanently secure them without having the jacks in the way.

   Corporation: n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility. --Ambrose Bierce
1. 
   Randy973 | Oct 22, 2008 04:07am | #2

   Someone suggested lowering the center beam instead of raising the perimiter. Any thoughts?

1. 
   danno7x | Oct 22, 2008 04:23am | #3

   I guess I would do my best to make sure the walls are basiclly done moving.  Then why wouldny you let the middle down instead of trying to shim up the house?

   Is no footing common in your area what is the state of the walls? Is there cracking from the settling or is the slab heaving?  If youve reached a state of equilibrium with the foundation walls lower the middle of the house.  You dont want a can of worms you cant afford to fix.  sometimes straight and in same plane is better than level.

    

2. 
   mitchr101 | Oct 22, 2008 06:05am | #4

   Randy.

   I just did this last week to a hundred year old house.

   The proper way to do it is drill helical peres into the ground and use them to support the concrete.  Feel free to call and I can explain the process.

   801-608-3317

1. 
   ruffmike | Oct 22, 2008 05:04pm | #5

   Here is another option to putting a phone # on the internet.

   We can email each other through Taunton by clicking on the names on each post and getting to the profile of the poster.                            Mike

       Small wheel turn by the fire and rod, big wheel turn by the grace of god.

2. 
   Randy973 | Oct 23, 2008 02:56am | #10

   Did you jack it up or just stabilize it?

3. 
   Hudson Valley Carpenter | Oct 22, 2008 09:32pm | #6

   To me it looks like it would be a lot simpler and easier to lower the center of the house. 

   First, the support beam is right there, giving you jacking points anywhere you want them.  Second, it takes about half as many jacks or half as much time and effort.

   I wouldn't be concerned about getting the house exactly level, just getting the floor all in the same plane.  Even that doesn't need to be precise. 

   I'd pick an elevation for one end of the center beam and another for the other end.  Then I'd make the center beam straight, no dips or crowns. 

   BTW, large hydralic jacks are relatively inexpensive to buy. 

1. 
   [email protected] | Oct 23, 2008 12:10am | #7

   You are assuming that the settlement on the exterior walls is even. 

   Odds are it is not, and to level things up, it will be necessary to adjust at least some of every exterior wall. 

   So, while dropping the center sounds quicker, until he gets a good measurement of how much settlement he has on all the walls, and checks the center beam there is no way to develop a plan to adjust things. 

   Hopefully there aren't any walls in the basement, so he can set up a level and shoot the whole thing at once. 

1. 
   Henley | Oct 23, 2008 01:04am | #8

   Plus, more often then not the sunken walls
   have (at least in part) something to do with rotten sills.

2. 
   Hudson Valley Carpenter | Oct 23, 2008 03:01am | #11

   You are assuming that the settlement on the exterior walls is even. 

   Not really.  I'm assuming that you can get the floor in the same plane, though somewhat out of level, by lowering the center beam.

3. 
   Randy973 | Oct 23, 2008 03:16am | #12

   There are some supporting wall in the basement, one on either side of the stairs. What will happen to these when I start lowering the center? the house hasn't settled evenly but everything dips away from the center beam. I am aware that plaster may crack but what about my original tile bath? And what will happen to the stairs? Has anyone ever done this before?

1. 
   Henley | Oct 23, 2008 04:38am | #13

   Randy,
   Many of us have jacked all sorts of buildings. Every one is different with it's own problems.If you need
   to avoid all plaster cracks and have finished tile to worry about perhaps this project isn't for the home owner.
   A thoughtful person, with some good advice can level a modest home.
   But there are many unanswered questions here.
   I think you need someone with experience to come and look it over. That said-The first thing to do is figure out exactly why it settled.

2. 
   Randy973 | Oct 23, 2008 02:49am | #9

   Have you ever done something like this before?

1. 
   Hudson Valley Carpenter | Oct 23, 2008 09:29am | #16

   Have you ever done something like this before?

   Yes.  But you might be better off asking if you should attempt it or how exactly to go about it. 

   There are a lot of small but important things to get right along the way.  Those things need to be part of your planning, not problems which arise suddenly in the midst of the process.

4. 
   Dinosaur | Oct 23, 2008 05:45am | #14

   It would help to know how much your floors are out.

   I've seen buildings with a 12" rise from the center to the perimeter wall--a distance of 14 feet. When it gets to that point you will have serious structural repairs to undertake--replacing/sistering cracked/warped beams and joists, etc.--and you are going to have major plaster and tile damage by the end of the process even if you take it up slowly over the course of five or more years.

   OTOH, if you're only out by an inch or so, you could raise it over the course of six months or a year and probably keep everything more or less intact. But for an inch in 15 feet, the only reason to go to all that trouble would be if it is still settling and you want to stabilise it.

   That's the other consideration: How you're going to keep it level after you've gotten it to that state. Undermining the perimeter walls and pouring footings is a fairly major project: you'll have to provide temporary support for the building--probably with cribbing and temporary beams--and support the perimeter walls themselves with sacrificial jacks that will be lost when you pour the footings over them.

   Dinosaur

   How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not brought
   low by this? For thine evil pales before that which
   foolish men call Justice....
   

   

5. 
   Billy | Oct 23, 2008 06:40am | #15

   I don't know how these folks are thinking about lowering the middle of the house.  Make the posts shorter?  Chisel out the beams under the supports?  It doesn't make sense to me but maybe I'm missing something.

   I've always jacked up the settled portions and used shims that don't compress easily like slate or metal (maybe slate isn't the best in retrospect).

   EZ does it and make sure you have the proper support underneath.  One time the basement slab cracked while jacking a 3 story house and the jack and post went flying like missiles.  Good thing no one was standing in the line of fire.

   Billy

6. 
   splintergroupie | Oct 23, 2008 10:10am | #17

   Randy,

   I jacked up a Victorian that had the opposite problem: the center beam cracked and the floor fell 4". As slowly as i jacked it back into almost-level, i lost plaster. You might just want to count on it.

   I wouldn't try to lower the center beam of your house bec it sounds like it's holding up the perimeter. If you lower the center, the perimeter may just continue to drop.

   A house mover can raise up your whole house while you dig and pour footings. They have all the beams and cribs and jacks to do this and can leave the beams and cribs in place until you've fixed the perimeter.

   I've also moved a house 35 miles. If i had to stabilize an entire perimeter, i'd check out first what the house mover would charge to bring it to level SAFELY so that you can add some footings, or alternatively, pour a new wall just inside the old one.

1. 
   Randy973 | Oct 24, 2008 12:53am | #18

   Thank you all for all your advice. The perimeter of the house is at its worst, 6 inches lower than the center. I am having a structural engineer over tomorrow. I will see what he has to say. I am pretty sure that the foundation has stopped settling. I had a structural contractor, who was selling push piers to stabilize and raise the foundation, that if I lower the center that probably the perimeter will continue to settle. If anybody has any other thoughts I will be glad to hear them , but I think I will hear what the engineer has to say and then call in a structural contractor to advise me. Thanks for all your help.
   Randy

1. 
   Henley | Oct 24, 2008 01:17am | #19

   6" is pretty bad I'll bet the engineer will want to fix it first.

7. 
   jrnbj | Oct 24, 2008 04:54am | #20

   1910 poured walls with no footing just doesn't sound right.......

1. 
   rez | Oct 24, 2008 06:54am | #21

   bet it was poured in layers out of a wheelbarrow.

    

   be odds 2 to 1, 3 to 1?

     

1. 
   jrnbj | Oct 24, 2008 03:45pm | #22

   Could be.
   I've seen some pretty strange "footings"
   There's no accounting for the strange things people do, but it still sounds odd to me.

1. 
   rez | Oct 24, 2008 05:34pm | #23

   heh

   Least it has something and not just an old log with joists on top. snorK*

   Remembering decades back a buddy buying an old house. Two storied building built on buried vertical old telephone poles with about a yard showing above ground.

   Dry solid ground so they are still in use but no inkling as to why they were used.

   I'm tempted to think whoever built it had them and it was a cost cutting adventure but who knows.

   Cheers

     

1. 
   dovetail97128 | Oct 24, 2008 06:11pm | #24

   Whats with you guys? Want to "level " a house? D-8 or a JADAM.
   They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.

2. 
   Hudson Valley Carpenter | Oct 24, 2008 07:26pm | #25

   Two storied building built on buried vertical old telephone poles...

   I'm tempted to think whoever built it had them and it was a cost cutting adventure but who knows.

   Even money that he worked for the power company on a line crew.   The guys who install poles, digging holes with a truck mounted auger.   Pretty easy for them a work that job into their schedule. 

2. 
   Randy973 | Oct 25, 2008 07:02pm | #26

   The structural engineer came yesterday. We decided that 1910 was not right. I think it was 1917 but I need to confirm it with the town. I turns out it in not 6inches as I thought but more like 3 or 4inches.  He is coming back today to continue his assesment.

   Thanks

   Randy

1. 
   jrnbj | Oct 25, 2008 08:11pm | #27

   Even 1917 seems pretty early to me for a poured foundation. Just curious, that's all. How do you know there "no foundation"?

1. 
   Randy973 | Oct 26, 2008 03:19am | #29

   We did some stabilizing of a small section with push piers and when we broke through the floor to get to the footing there was none, so they attached the supports to the bottom of the wall.

8. 
   frenchy | Oct 25, 2008 11:08pm | #28

   Randy

    Don't be overly concerned.. I used to walk into brand new houses and drop a marble or two on the floor. They never once failed to roll someplace.. Not once!

    That's over a 17 year period where I'd visit dozens of new homes a day looking for customers.

    floors are never perfectly level.