I have an old house I am renovating for my mother-in-law. The kitchen floor is not level from left to right or front to back. That’s fine by me.
However, in certain areas, the floor is unacceptably uneven. I need some way to get rid of some of the more egregious dips.
I pulled up the old vinyl floor, which left a black spongey surface over the old hardwood (probably the flooring backing still sticking to the floor). I am planning on putting down 3/8″ plywood over this, and then luan over the ply with a new vinyl on the luan. I can’t go any thicker than 3/8″ ply because the ceiling height is already low, and it would also impact some doors and transitions to other rooms.
The problem is, once I screwed down the 3/8″ ply, you can feel some dips plain as day. It may be a little much for my old mother in law to navigate easily. One example, is there is a dip of about 1 1/2″ in a roughly two by two foot square area.
Here are some solutions I’ve already considered:
I am thinking I could unscrew the ply and do a bunch of wood shims in the dips, but that could take a lot of fussing to get right (especially since I don’t want the ply to span to great a gap, or it will feel bouncy).
I don’t think jacking will help, as it is more a care of the underlying rough pine plans (house is 150+ years old) being uneven than the floor needing to be jacked.
I’d prefer NOT to remove the current hardwood floor to get to the old subfloor and rework that. That would just be too much work. I might as well shim.
I have used Henry 547 underlayment floor filler to fill in the gaps on luan before putting down vinyl. Would that work for large dips?
I’ve looked at concrete leveler materials (the pourable kind). They seem fussy to work with, and I’m not sure if it would just end up draining between the boards (though I suppose I could put down tar paper or rosin paper to hold it). Can you screw into that kind of leveler?
Anyone have any recommendations or experience with these approaches (particularly the last one), or perhaps a recommended different approach?
Replies
You can rent a floor sander and sand out the ridges - that may make the hollows less pronounced. But you will need to scrape up the black, gooey stuff first, or you will go broke on clogged-up sandpaper. You only need to use coarse grit.
For major hollows, a bundle of shim shingles is the only cure I know.
There is not a level floor in my old house, so I know what you are facing. Go for smooth rather than level.
I had the same problem in an old rental property once. I used a transit to locate the low spots, stapled wire lath over the low areas and poured them more or less full of self leveling concrete. I then covered it all with 1/2 ply. It wasn't perfect since the floor still wasn't level but it was flat.
Thanks for the tip. Yes, I'm going for smooth. Level is not achievable. Poor choice of words on my part.Did you have issues with the self-leveling cement pouring through the floor? (that is, finding gaps and cracks, and ending up pouring into the basement)
Edited 10/28/2007 2:34 pm ET by bk1000
Pull up what you put down and fill the low spots with progressive layers of tarpaper to feather out the worst. Then lay the ply wood and if needed repeat under the luan..I'd not exceed say 10 layers of paper, else it may be spongy.
Staple the living daylights out of the layers.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
'there is a dip of about 1 1/2" in a roughly two by two foot square area.'
Musta missed that.
Ok, rip the roll length wise and 20D nails thru it all..LOL
Geeze, inch and a half sounds like something is broke, oh well.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
ya, thought that sounded more like a hole.
snorK*
As stated, the best bet would be to clean up the backing residue then course sand the hardwood.
The Henry floor filler can be used in thicker pours - but as long as you are topping it with plywood, use a setting type dryall compound - Durabond or Easy Sand. Just mix and pour, then strike it off like you were finishing concrete. Unless the boards are seriously gapped it won't run through to any great degree. (If large gaps are the case, mix a pan full on the stiff side and trowel the cracks full, then make a more pourable batch)
Easy sand may be a little easier to work with if you left it too high.
I really would at least deal with that stuck down backing or else you will find that the finish layer of underlayment will still feel like it is moving.
Terry
If new cabinets are going in, we always just rip out the old subfloor and be done with it. It takes two carpenters a day to rip out the old and replace with something better. I like 1-1/8" t&g ply. It's less than $40 a sheet and you can apply flooring directly to it. We cut around the perimeter with a skillsaw leaving 1-1/2" of the old floor at the edges. A 6" strip of ply is screwed and glued to the underside of the old floor at the edges as well as the edge of the new floor.
If the cabinets are staying in place you are probably limited to one of the cement based floor levelers. I use a bonding agent, but I suppose it's not going anywhere if covered with another sheet of ply.
Don
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
I had a similar issue in our house we remodeling. I tore up the subfloor down to the joists. There were dips and mis-alignments. I started to shim, then realized that sistering 2x6's along the joists was much easier. I glued and nailed them about every 6 inches. It may cost more than shims, but is way faster and gives a clean result.