Need some advice on the best/easiest/cost efficient/ fastest way to level the strapping that is on the bottom of some ceiling joist. The joist were all twisted as they had not been strapped in the 6 years they were installed. They are 24″ oc and are made up of two 12′ lenghts end to end and sandwiched between two 8′ pieces in order to span 24′. Partitions will be installed, but they are not load bearing. One area will be rather large and has me wondering what would be the way to go in order to keep the ferring level and the joist from sagging? The joist are 2×6. I have already installed a 2×6 strongback down the center of the house. In addition I placed some 2×6 blocks between the joist where the 8′ 2×6 splices end in order to make the joist more ridged and less likely to sag after adding sheetrock.
A friend recomended nailing blocks that would extend from the joist to the rafter in the larges unsupported area. What do you (all) think? I thought I could use the peferated steel from simpson strong tie along with the truss screws. The blocks would be tough because the joist are off to one side of the rafters, which would require more blocks just to get them in line so that the support will be plumb in two directions.
Sorry about my wordy rap. Turtle boy
Replies
You say the partition walls will not be load bearing but in reality they will to a degree because there is no way possible for spliced 2x6s to span this distance without sag. You are adressing this issue. The Simpson ties are for diagonal bracing more than for structural load bearing. The blocks to the rafters will hold better if glued and nailed well. They will also removee vibrations better than metal straps.
The problem here, as I see it, is that you are now transfering the ceiling deadload (God forbid there should be any liveload such as storage) to the rafters. Since the ceiling joists were poorly designed, I have no confidence that the roof rafters are adequate to the task. If they are under-designed for the roof and you add the weight of the ceiling to it, Ooops!
and added to this mess is the fact the joists should have been overlapped..instead of butted...wow.....I'd say put the walls in......then sister..over kill in this case might just bring ya up to code! Jeff She's exotic ,but not foreign, like an old Cadillac......she's a knockout!
if you have enough room height to sacrifice 2", you can sister 2x8's to get the span strength you need.. there is nothing you can do to furring that will keep a ceiling joist from sagging...
and , conversely, if the joists are not sagging , the furring is almost self leveling.Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Thanks for the advice,
Got the number of a framer in the area and will call tonight. Of those that have seen the framing in question, most seem to feel that the sizing and spacing of the 2x's are close to being maxxed out. The house is modular and doesn't fall under the same codes that contractors in the area are required to follow. At least that's what I've been told.
Thanks for the advice, Turtleboy
Mike,
Do you know of anyone in this area that is familure with the problems associated with modular home construction when it comes to adding onto them? I'm looking to add two dormers, roof (the front half of the house the back is finished) and replace the 2nd floor windows. Wife will be having our first child soon so I won't have the time that I need to complete. Let me know if you have anyone in mind that can take on a small job.
Thanks from turtleboy, in South Kingstown RI
modular is no different from conventional when it comes to additions.. you have to design for supporting members, bearing partitions.. it's really just common sense and building code..
as you know.. most good contractors are booked thru Christmas.. but, things happen and jobs fall thru.. ask Bo Brown in the Building Department for advice...they'll be getting involved one way or another...
or look me up in the phone book... JamestownMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I agree with you about the addition part of your last post. I was just talking about the original dwelling being modular construction and the fact that they either have different codes or it appears that they "got over" on the town building inspector by virtue of a set of prints signed by an engineer. This would mean the BI / town is not liable? That's the way it was explained to me, though I'm not sure who to believe anymore.
By the way, it's a girl, 10lbs 1oz
Take care and I'll try to reach you on the phone, turtle boy.
a baby girl ???
Congrats to you and the Mrs.
BTW - Pics are required around here for additions to the family.
My friend has a baby. I'm recording all the noises he makes so later I can ask him what he meant.
Just as soon as I figure out how to get the photo on the web, you'll be getting one. IMHO she's just beautiful.
Turtledad
So the only thing really holding up the 2nd floor is the nails sistering the 2 x 6 together. man what A mess. At this point the more you add to try and fix it . You increase the dead load. Which doesen't sound possible."I was born in the country, razed in the city, I'm a natural born shaker from my hips to the ground"
The 2x6 joist that I'm speaking of are the ceiling joist above the unfinished 2nd floor. The joist that support the 2nd floor are 2x10's. The 2nd floor was never finished in this home which is about 6-1/2 years old, so that's how long they have gone unsupported. Had strapping been installed as soon as the house was completed on site, I'm sure that there would be little or no twisting of the ceiling joist. I'm wondering if the sag in certain areas would have been reduced by installing blocks and a strong back (with the strapping) when the home was finished on site?
Thanks again for the input, Turtleboy
"The 2nd floor was never finished in this home which is about 6-1/2 years old, so that's how long they have gone unsupported."
That explains it. Dollars to donoughts the stamped plans showed partition walls that were never built but were meant to add support. The B.I. may have copies in the archive. Get a copy of the approved plans, they'll tell you where everything was supposed to go.
No problems, only opportunities.
That sounds like a good idea, I hope the "blue prints" that came with the house match the ones that are on file with the BI.
Thanks again turtleboy
"made up of two 12' lenghts end to end and sandwiched between two 8' pieces in order to span 24'. Partitions will be installed, but they are not load bearing..... The joist are 2x6.
"...make the joist more ridged and less likely to sag after adding sheetrock.
"A friend recomended nailing blocks that would extend from the joist to the rafter in the larges unsupported area. What do you (all) think?
Since the ceiling joists are so screwed up (they're sagging before adding sheetrock? Doesn't surprise me) I would guess that the rafters are similarly overspanned and screwed up and you'd be taking a rather large chance of having the roof fail as well instead of just the ceiling.
Get someone in who knows framing and you might get an answer after the gasps of amazement.
Edited 8/3/2002 9:22:32 AM ET by Bob Walker
These other guys have given you good advice. You seem to have a serious problem here. Covering it up with drywall will only make it harder to fix down the road......
"If a cow laughed real hard, would milk come out her nose?"
Is it possible that, some time in the past, there was one or more partitions installed under the joists? I have seen a case where a partition, they were told it was not load bearing, was removed and the ceiling joists started toppling over because they were no longer supported laterally. Several of these were under a second story and had rolled about 30 degrees and had begun to sag quite a bit in the middle. I got called in to correct some wiring that was patched and stuffed into the attic where the original partition was located.