Replies

1. 
   Framer | Sep 21, 2003 12:49am | #1

   I framed a 5000 s/f house this summer on a slab with the same problem but 1" is max. It took me almost 2 weeks to frame the first floor because the slab was so bad. I had to use a laser cut almost every stud to get everything level, it was a joke.

   Monday morning the builder has a floor leveling company coming in to pour on top of the Dispicable slab. Then I have to go down and put sleepers and plywood to accept the oak floor.

   This is a great room floor, so I bet the Framers had a hell of time like I did just to get everything level for your second floor.

   The builder told me friday that the Floor Leveling guy wants $3,800.00. It works out to be about $3.00s/f.

   I don't no if thatt's high or not but it would probably cost more for me to shimm every sleeper. The ened result will be a better job with the floor leveling company.

   Good Luck.

   Joe Carola

1. 
   ThorJ1 | Sep 21, 2003 01:36am | #2

    Luckily, the wall are concrete and they were poured before the slab was.  I was charged $4200 for 1800 sqr. ft. to be leveled, after the GC had paid the concrete crew $5,000 for the original slab.  The finished floor in this room is to be marble tile - so the max out of level the tile guys will tolerate is 1/8" in ten feet.  This is the second try by the concrete levelers to get the room level - their now only 1 3/4" out of level.

1. 
   Frankie | Sep 21, 2003 02:25am | #3

   When I was taught to install SLC, one trick we learned was to create a grid on the existing floor and drill holes. Then install tapcon screws while using a site or laser level to screw them to the same height. They will act as your markers when pouring the new floor.

   You can then use 3 metal screeds - 2 spaning pairs of screws and one riding on them (with an offset) to screed the concrete.

   Pretty basic stuff.

   If they charged you $4.2K to level the floor, tell them you would be happy to pay it when they actually level the floor and not just for an attempt.

   Hope this helps.

   F

2. 
   Floorman | Sep 21, 2003 03:47am | #5

   If you are having marble installed why do you have to do anything. The marble can be mud set to level. Although the mud will be thick on the low side of the floor, I do not see the reason for the leveling of the slab unless your stone setter does not know how to set marble butt edge one tile and one mud set at a time. It happens everyday. Find an old Italian stone setting firm in your area. It is not a big deal. I doubt that you will even pay a premium for your circumstances since they like to have a minimum 1-2 inch setting bed for each stone. Knowledge is powerful. GW

1. 
   Piffin | Sep 21, 2003 06:14am | #6

   I'll agree with that, but he is probably having a brittle type of marble laid on thinset instead since they set that standard.

   That is a solution but the fact remains that if he paid for a level floor and speced it properly up front, he should be getting a level floor, although the 1/8" is overly anal for a concrete finish..

   Excellence is its own reward!

1. 
   brownbagg | Sep 21, 2003 06:37am | #7

   If you go play at concrete network, they is a couple links for self leveling concrete (its a grout mix) I really do not know anything about it, just saw the link

2. 
   Clay | Sep 21, 2003 10:03am | #9

   I have tried the self leveling stuff and it is very expensive material that won't even come close to doing its job.  I had to level it again afterward.  Don't go that route.  I do think TJ's floor needs to be leveled before the marble is laid.  Almost two inches is too much to adjust with the grout (or thinset).  That much extra depth makes the bed too soft and squishy and it gets too hard to keep things level and flat.  I think the floor leveling guys should be offering TJ a free fix but I am too far from the situation to understand all the details.  It really isn't that hard to do I am unsure why TJ is having such trouble.  Is the floor moving?  Does he have inexperienced workmen on the job?  Something is not right here I don't have all the facts.

   Edited 9/21/2003 3:05:53 AM ET by Clay

3. 
   Framer | Sep 21, 2003 01:29pm | #10

   I have tried the self leveling stuff and it is very expensive material that won't even come close to doing its job.  I had to level it again afterward. 

   In my post above I should've typed in Self Leveling Company because that's the stuff that the builder is using tomorrow. The slab is about 1250s/f and the guy charged $3,800.00, about $3.00s/f. 

   Is this stuff really that bad?

   When this guy is done I have to go back and put sleepers down then 3/4" subfloor and on top of that they will install oak flooring.

   I've never used it or seen it used. Isn't this self leveling stuff the same stuff thet they use to pour in around radiant heat?

   Joe Carola

4. 
   Clay | Sep 22, 2003 06:40am | #14

   The problem with the self leveling stuff is that it cannot be mixed thinly enough to flow out to level.  At least not in thin applications (which is the only place that you would even consider using it).  I really think that the only possible application for it would be to smooth a rough or pitted surface that was already pretty much level.   What you really need is a couple of screeds and some system of registering them to level.  Then just pour a good strong grout mix and screed and trowel.  It is a much simpler system which those who've tried the "self leveling" stuff will understand.  I would think that it might be best to have the flooring guys work it out.  They are pretty slick at it if they are experienced at laying on grout beds.  It sounds like a simple idea: that a thin slurry would just pool in the low spots and automatically level if you just pour it deep enough.  That might work if you could pour it 4" deep all over real quickly.  In practice the whole idea turns out to be good for selling material only.  It only works when it is done repeatedly with rather skilled applications.   Turns out to be the most costly and the slowest and the MOST UNreliable system for leveling cement floors that has been marketed yet.

5. 
   Floorman | Sep 21, 2003 06:42am | #8

   If a thinset installation is the spec, then the setter can still perform a continuous mud float to level prior to any marble being set. This is done standard where an 1/8 inch spacer is used. And the only purpose for that is to hide overstone at the edges. GW

6. 
   Piffin | Sep 21, 2003 09:42pm | #11

   Greg,

   I know it CAN be done. You or I or a bunch of others can do it, sure. and a hard packed bed with no "squishy" to it either.

   but I'm looking at it from the other side. comne around here and peek at it from this side of the tree with me for a minute, will you? You and I bid this job to set marble flooring and told the owner/GC that we wanted the floors level and falt to within an eighth inch in eight feet. Now we knoew that it wouldn't be quite that level because - well, just because...- but we had to set a standard for him to aim at since he seems to be a newbie.

   Then we get called to set the marble and see that this base is not even within an inch in eight feet. I had to grab your shoulder that day just to keep from falling when I stubbed my toe on that rise in the floor. You think we're still going to set this floor for the same money that we quoted? We tell the owner he needs to get it like we asked for or we'll have to charge him for getting it right. He says he has an agreement with the GC to have it made right and that he'll follow up on it so we leave, "Call us when it's ready".

   Excellence is its own reward!

7. 
   Floorman | Sep 22, 2003 03:39am | #12

   I just think that it would be cheaper to let the stone setter set the new grade than an ardex 15 pour that is unreliable in one or two pours at best at 2-3 dollars+ per ft. per pour.

   The gc can pay for the extra setting cost which will be a lot less costly than working with concrete repair specialist. With all due respect to your opinion, we just differ in our approach. I deal with grade issues on many of my wood floor jobs and have seen what a stone setter can due with the same issues on his side of the floor. They view it as a non-issue when grades are off. I don't get that same ease.  GW

8. 
   Piffin | Sep 22, 2003 06:10am | #13

   Yeah, but I think you are missing the fact that this HO already ran the GC off the job and has been billed for "leveling" I'm not sure if he paid that bill or not, but if it were me, I would expect them top do what they billed for first, rather than pay someone else for what I'm already paying for once..

   Excellence is its own reward!

9. 
   ThorJ1 | Sep 22, 2003 07:17am | #15

   The leveling firm was paid on this job $4200 to level $5,000 worth of concrete work - the GC paid the concrete workers to boot. The marble is indeed brittle and the tile setters are telling me they can't set the tile the way the floor is now. This is the second time they've attempted to level the floor and now it's only out of level 1 3/4" in 18 feet.

10. 
    Handydan | Sep 22, 2003 10:20am | #16

    Stupid question here, but what does the extra thickness of concrete do to the effectiveness of the radiant heating?  Seems to me that there is going to be about 2 inches of extra mud on one side of the room.  Certainly that is going to slow the heat transfer process isn't it?  Just wondering

    Dan

11. 
    Piffin | Sep 22, 2003 03:11pm | #17

    That would be a marginal concern. It can take up to three days for a radiant slab to stabilize. This is not the kind of heat system that you crank up and down on the thermostat all the time. You need to learn to set it and walk away from it, so the delay is essentially of no effect. In theory, yes, but in practice, no..

    Excellence is its own reward!

12. 
    Floorman | Sep 22, 2003 03:40pm | #18

    You need to get a new tile setter.

13. 
    ThorJ1 | Sep 22, 2003 05:56pm | #19

       Actually, what I think I'm going to need is a lawyer - but, in the mean time I need to get the floor leveled somehow.

2. 
   Piffin | Sep 21, 2003 03:18am | #4

   What the **** were they doing for that 4200 anyway. Repouring over or grinding?

   .

   Excellence is its own reward!