Replies

1. 
   Mike_Smith | Jul 05, 2001 12:37pm | #1

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   rwilson... what state do you live in?

1. 
   James_DuHamel | Jul 05, 2001 05:21pm | #2

   *rwilson,A lot is going to dependon how your company is classified by the Insurance company.For example, they will want to know if you are going to be painting 2 story buildings or homes, whether or not you will do commercial work, what part of the country you are operating in, what type of buildings/homes you will be working on, and how much coverage you want (they do have a minimum coverage).If you tell them that you are not painting 2 story homes, and they set up your policy based on this, then you will not be covered if you ever do paint a 2 story home. The policy needs to cover all aspects of your business, INCLUDING your automobiles you use FOR WORK. Talk with your agent, and tell him all you can about your business. He will work out a policy that is right for you, and affordable for your new company. As you grow, he can help you set up your policy so that it grows with you.Just a thought...James DuHamel

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   Jeff_J._Buck | Jul 06, 2001 01:43am | #3

   *Find an agent that knows this type of business. Find one that will ask you alot of questions....and let you ask alot of questions. Find an agent that takes their time, doesn't try to rush thru a one size fits all policy.....and spend a few hours asking and answering questions........be specific.....have a million "what if" senarios.....and go from there. Jeff

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   RWILSON | Jul 06, 2001 09:11pm | #4

   *Thanks for all of the advice. I spoke with an agent whom i trust and he stated that the yearly premium for a policy that includes $300,00/600,000, liability only for 90% residential and 10% commercial work both interior and exterior would be between $400-500....does this sound accurate? I work in New Jersey. Thanks again

1. 
   Dan_Dear | Jul 06, 2001 10:53pm | #5

   *That dollar amount is way too low. If a kid climbs up a ladder, falls and you get sued, I'd have a minimum of $1M, and $5M will be better. In addition, make you operate as anything but a sole prop.

2. 
   Jeff_J._Buck | Jul 07, 2001 08:48am | #6

   *Depending what type of work you do....that dollar amaount is fine. That's about what I carried....just make sure you can "upsize" with a phone call and a check in the mail. My guy pro-rate's it, on an "as-needed basis". Check into tool theft and material transporation/handling/storage/etc also. A good policy will have a few custom build riders. Price seems fair. For a check...I have Erie 5 Star Contractors Ins, with a few riders, and think it's pretty complete. Jeff

3. 
   GACC_DAllas | Jul 09, 2001 05:36am | #7

   *As Sonny sez.......I'd incorporate if I were you. That's your best personal protection.I carry $500,000.00 worth of liability insurance. So far, that amount has not cost me any work due to the low coverage amount. The amount you pay depends on how much your payroll is. It's a screwed up system, but that's the way it is. A lesser paid man will cost me less in insurance premiums. But a lesser paid man may do more damage than a skilled worker. Go figure.So far I haven't needed it. (He says as he knocks wood)Ed.

4. 
   Bill_Hartmann | Jul 09, 2001 03:06pm | #8

   *EdWhile incorporation can help in some cases it is worthless for a single employee company like I suspect that this one is.If R Wilson working for R Wilson Painting, Inc puts the power washer on the electrical box and in turn burns down the house who is going to be sued?R Wilson Paint, Inc AND R Wilson who did the work.Insurance is better.

5. 
   GACC_DAllas | Jul 14, 2001 06:46pm | #9

   *Bill,Very true.It looks like I might be in the position it see what kind of coverage I have on my rear right now.Here's what happened:18th floor high rise apartment.High-end owner and builder.Job superintentdent supplied by builder. We are the trim installation sub.The job had a full time super for a while. Owner comes in and says she's paying so much money for this job that she wants one of the two builders to be the super. The super is cut loose (kinda) and one of the builders becomes the super. But he can't be there all the time, he's a builder. Electrician lays down shielded wire on the bathroom subfloor for radiant heat. The marble guy goes in next and lays down mud bed over the wires and installs many, many dollars worth of imported marble floor tiles. Probably 200 sq. ft? There is a doorway at the end of the bathroom to a closet. The closet is about two risers lower than the bath so we are told to install the steps. No problem. In the door jamb area there is some mud bed overflow into the rough opening of where the door is going. The marble stops at the inside of the bath and does not project into where the door jamb will be. The door jamb will sit on the wood landing tread for the steps, but the mud overflow from the marble floor is in the rough opening. Our carpenter scores the mud at the line of the marble to remove excess mud to install the landing tread tight to the edge of the marble in the bath. OOPS! He cut the wire loops in five places that was under the mud overflow but out past the marble floor and into the door rough opening.The radiant heat flooring company says that they won't warrenty the floor with splices in it. The marble floor has to come up and the wire replaced.Question:Who's liability is it?Ed.

6. 
   GACC_DAllas | Jul 14, 2001 06:55pm | #10

   *Hey RWILSON,I didn't mean to hijack your thread, but I thought that this information might help you understand the importance of why you need insurance.Regards,Ed.

7. 
   Mike_Smith | Jul 14, 2001 07:23pm | #11

   *ed. givea courtesy call to the electrician.. and keep the "super" informed of what's going down...then contact your ins. agent and explain the circumstances....sounds like joint liability to me..and your insurance company may want to lay some off on the other two... the electrician... the super.... and you....the super for failure to supervise..the electrician for installing into the doorway...and you for cutting the wires...as soon as you notify the ins. company... light a fire under them so the super can get the tile guy back to rip up the tile....hand off the problem to the super..b but hey, whadda i no ?

8. 
   GACC_DAllas | Jul 14, 2001 09:16pm | #12

   *Mike,I can't really see my liability here. The elctrican installed the wiring. It was not the carpenters position to inspect the wiring and see that it was installed in the right places. We were not suposed to be on that floor after the wiring went in for obivious reasons. When we got there, it was covered up. We were not told that the wiring was under the excess mud area. No one informed us, and we were hanging crown at the other end of the apartment when all this was installed anyway.Did we cut it?You bet. No question there.Did the super tell us it was there where it shouldn't be so be careful? No.Where is my liability?I'm not asked or paid to be responsible for what the other trades install. Who knew that the wires were run out past the field of the marble tile? The electrician and I hope the super. We were not included in that loop of informed people. Should I have called the electrician as suggested? Why would I have any reason to? Just to second quess his work? That's not my responsibility. That's the supers job to keep all the subs informed of what's going on with the whole job.I see it as the supers liability.Ed.

9. 
   Mike_Smith | Jul 14, 2001 09:22pm | #13

   *you asked.... i answered... IMHO... there are 3 liable parties.....BUT... it's up to the insurance companies to battle it out....i'm just telling you how i would handle it...

10. 
    Jim_Walters | Jul 14, 2001 11:23pm | #14

    *Dallas,Using logic, I would side with you, but.......who uses logic anymore. Looks like a battle brewing. Mike's probably right, you'll all have to chip in.

11. 
    GACC_DAllas | Jul 15, 2001 02:22am | #15

    *Ahhhhhhh,The story continues......I'll tune you in for the next episode as it happens.Ed.

12. 
    Scrapr_ | Jul 15, 2001 02:42am | #16

    *as long as this thread is hijacked.... Do decorators carry liability insurance? Local Street of Dreams was about to have a pre opening party. Black tie, scmoozola fest. About 200 pm decorator lights a candle that in turns catches a silk curtain/bedspread on fire. Pretty soon the room is engulfed. Everybody from the area came running. One trade pulled the mattress outside (from upstairs!). Somehow the builder got the house back in shape by 630 pm. If that house had burned down how much would be on the line? House at 1+ mil, lost opportunity from traffic at the show? My 2 mil liability insurance might be bumping up agaibnst the limit. Would a decorator carry 1 mil LI?

13. 
    GACC_DAllas | Jul 15, 2001 06:52pm | #17

    *Scrapr,I'm just guessing here.......If the owner of the house held the CO, then probably his homeowners insurance would have foot the bill. Just as if a visitor to your house might break something or cause some damage to your property. If the house had not been turned over to the owner yet, it's the builders ticket. I would assume that a decorator would carry some sort of business insurance protection. You know, "let me set this Ming vase over here...OOPS!".Ed.

2. 
   RWILSON | Jul 15, 2001 06:52pm | #18

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   I was wondering if anyone had any information regarding liability insurance for a small painting and power washing business I am starting. Any thoughts on what I should get or what I should expect to pay would be greatly appreciated. Thanks as always