Replies

1. 
   LEMONJELLO | May 11, 2006 10:51am | #1

   Nice lift! I especially like the one where its bending ever so slightly....
   Bet that was fun!

1. 
   JohnSprung | May 13, 2006 01:26am | #18

   > I especially like the one where its bending ever so slightly....

   The vertical studs on that little piece of wall on the left also look like they have a slight outward bow.  So, it could be that barrel distortion from the lens accounts for some of the bend, and the wall didn't really bend as far as it looks.  Zoom lenses will have different amounts of distortion depending on what focal length they're at.  You could shoot a hatch chart and follow the lines in PhotoShop to see.   

    

   -- J.S.

    

1. 
   Timuhler | May 13, 2006 04:25am | #21

   My wide angle Sigma lense has some major distortion when I shoot at a 45° to a ceiling.  This one's http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/131813453.jpg is not so bad but I had some really weird looking ones from that set.  When I shot vertical, the ceiling/bay walls looked better. 

   I have to be careful to shoot at less of an angle like this one http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/9368298/136486507.jpg

2. 
   LEMONJELLO | May 13, 2006 12:54pm | #24

   You got a point, depends on the lens. Quasi getting into photo myself Nikon D70s with a decent collection of lenses. I am looking to play with some Prospective control lenses too and learning Architectural Photography mostly through books and shooting interesting buildings.
   I always thought good photography in construction of key points of interest and nice angle really show off work and attention to detail. I have a pro photo friend that I drag to jobs, point out what I'm looking for and he shoots it, great for portfolio on prospective clients. From HO comments and feedback it it sells well having a nicely laid out portfolio (The whole professional , got your sh!t together stuff fits in real nice with people looking for custom quality work).
   For me it's a damn expensive hobby though.

2. 
   JohnT8 | May 11, 2006 07:09pm | #2

   Sheeze that looks like a lotta weight!  How much will that fork pick up with the arm way out like that.  Pretty amazing stuff.  Make sure you keep those Hitachis out of the drop zone in case those straps snap ;)

    

   View Image

   jt8

   "The difference between greatness and mediocrity is often how an individual views a mistake..."-- Nelson Boswell

3. 
   LEMONJELLO | May 11, 2006 08:26pm | #3

   BTW, what did you use on the sole plate? banding straps? simpson straps? Just curious, I would have hated to see a wall that big shoot out off the floor.

1. 
   blue_eyed_devil | May 11, 2006 09:32pm | #4

   Lemonjello, the need for straps on the sole plate is eliminated when raising walls like that with the machine. That machine won't even groan a little when raising that little amount of weight.

   Tim, I see you're taking full advantage of your machine. Congrats to you, it'll pay off in the long run.

   I'm curios: what room is this ballooned framed wall  part of? Is it a two storyed room or a one story with a high cathedral ceiling?

   It appears that your hookup is slightly high, thus causing a slight amount of bend in the wall. I've seen wall bending a lot more than that though, so my comment isn't meant as a criticism. Myself, I prefer to hook it so the wall goes up level and flat but that isn't always possible.

   I also notice that you are hooking with a single strap. That must be a very, long strap. We'd have wrapped a couple of 20's around the rafter. I'd have guessed that it would be balanced if I hooked it in the same location as you did, but grabbing the rafter would balance the weight out a bit better....maybe.

   Good job, not hurry up and get some adjoining walls standing before that behemoth blows over!

    blue 

1. 
   Timuhler | May 12, 2006 02:03am | #8

   Blue,

   That is the family room.  The back wall will be about 20' high and the wall that separates it from the den (the room with that front rakewall) will also be tall, but we will build those in 2 peices because we can :-)  I don't know what the ceilings will be like yet in that room.  The house is spec so we'll see when we get the roof framed.

   You know, I've looked for info about picking pick points and such and we picked that point because of the row of blocking.  I agree with you that a little lower would've been nice.  I've seen walls bend more than that too :-)

   That strap is 30'?  I can't recall, we bought it through the lumberyard and we have 2 or 3 of them total.  We've been trying to get a spreader bar made, but that has taken too long.

2. 
   Timuhler | May 12, 2006 01:58am | #7

   We used 3 peices of Simpson coil strap.  Maybe 16" long?  It keeps the wall on the line

4. 
   PenobscotMan | May 11, 2006 10:30pm | #5

   That looks scary!  How do you get the wall plumb?  (Or does the dangling wall act as a natural plumb bob?)

1. 
   Timuhler | May 12, 2006 02:08am | #9

   We use a PLS 5 to plumb the wall.  Here are a couple of pics the last time we did this about 7 weeks ago

   http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/9368298/132661182.jpg  Nice and quick.  We had a block nailed to the top of the gable when it was about 5' off the ground so no one had to climb up the wall :-)

   http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/9368298/132545618.jpg

   http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/9368298/136486493.jpg

    

   Kyle and I built in a groin in this house.  Here is his groin :-) http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/9368298/136486505.jpg

   http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/9368298/136486507.jpg

5. 
   hammer1 | May 11, 2006 11:00pm | #6

   Back many years ago, I moved my family to a new town to find work as a carpenter. The guy I went to work for had a monster gable like yours laying on the job. He also put the windows and siding on. This wall was for the gable of a large garage. The garage foundation was a good 18" up and he didn't tie the bottom of the wall. First day on the job for me, he had 10 guys try to walk that gable up. We didn't get too far before the bottom kicked out and the wall fell on us. I was lucky because I rolled toward the foundation, others got banged up pretty good.

   I couldn't believe I moved my young family 200 miles, New Years day, in a blizzard, to a strange town where we knew nobody, to work for this hot shot custom builder that almost whacked me the first day. When the wall didn't work we went in the main house to strap the ceilings. Too bad the electrician had already run wires everywhere that had to be moved. After that he asked me to build some cellar stairs. The foundation was high, close to 9 feet on the total rise, he had the opening framed 8 feet from the foundation wall and wanted me to cut stringers out of 2x8x12 crooked ones at that.

   When I got home that night the wife told me the new neighbor shot at my dog. There was another 8" of snow to shovel in the 1/8 mile driveway. The next day at work, we went to another house with framed and sided walls that needed lifting. Only a long wall this time. When we got it up there was a good 6" space under the bottom plate and the corners were leaning 1 1/2" towards each other. The framing crew never straightened the wall or squared it before sheathing and siding. We were way out in the boonies. I must have walked five miles before I found a big enough road to hitch a ride on. I won't forget that January, ever.

   Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
1. 
   Timuhler | May 12, 2006 02:09am | #10

   Man, that is rough.

    

   really really rough.

1. 
   hammer1 | May 12, 2006 06:11am | #12

   I had a flash back when I saw your guys standing next to that gable. Hope you don't mind if I steal the groin frame sometime. They add a classy touch.Beat it to fit / Paint it to match

6. 
   dieselpig | May 12, 2006 03:57am | #11

   Nice clean lift Tim.... looks good.  You think you could have got that up if it were on the second floor?  Those are the ones that always get me.  Hey, what load is that strap rated for? 

    I've got a couple light duty 6' ers that are rated for about 1000 lbs each.  And then I've got two medium duty 30'ers rated for around 2200lbs.  Just recently picked up a monster sling, a 20'er but I can't recall right now what it's rated for.  It's about 4" wide and very thick with half twist loops.  I'm thinking that's going to be my new gable strap.

    

   View Image
1. 
   blue_eyed_devil | May 12, 2006 06:31am | #13

   Diesel, that machine would snatch that small wall up if I built it on the tables....which I wouldn't. It could then send it easily up to the second floor.

   It's all in the numbers. Most houses have height limitations. It's unusual to have a "normal" house taller than 30' or so.

   Sometimes, if you have a walkout grade, the heights can get  too extreme. I'm thinking chimney, two story walkout, on a steep gable... In those cases, it's important to break the wall up in strategic parts. Even then our machine will reach a long way.  We have a 42' boom with a 12' jib attachment. That can get us an awful long reach, but it scares me because I'd have to be in the machine, in the footprint of the wall if it found a way to fall over.

   Tim, we used to strap everything down with wall ties at 4' oc. In the last year, we've decided that it's easier to raise these walls if we leave the bottom loose. The machine just grabs and drags the wall up and we put the entire wall in the air, then maneuver it back to the line. Frank does an excellent job and the wall rarely moves more than  a foot off the line. Strapping the wall is critical when raising it with wall jacks, or by manpower, but its not really necessary for the machine, because the machine has such a small amount of play in the strap that if the wall slides off the deck, it gets locked up within a foot or so.

   I'm not trying to talk you into leaving your straps off, I'm just pointing out that the dynamics change when raising the wall by hand or machine.

   Hammer1: interesting story. I was forced to participate in a dangerous wall raising many times when I wasn't a foreman on my own crew. Once I took over, all that foolishness about the bottoms kicking out disappeared forever. That was one of the primary reasons I went into business for myselves in my early years...common sense safety issues.

   blue 

1. 
   Timuhler | May 12, 2006 04:03pm | #14

   Blue,

   I agree with you about the straps, and we typically don't strap smaller walls that the machine will lift, but if we use wall jacks or manpower and the wall is taller, like a rakewall, I feel better strapping it.

   If we can get the machine in the right place, like this wall, then I like to strap it so the wall is right on the line, but if its at an angle, then I'd rather let the bottom float.  We lifted one where we let the bottom float and the tires of the forklift were pretty close to the edge of the deck, so as the wall went up, it slid right to the tires and then pivoted.

   We like to leave tension on the wall and the machine there until the other walls are built or braced :-)  Feels a lot better. http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/9368298/136489706.jpg

   I should come up with "Rules of Lifting Tall Walls"

   Rule #1 Use the bathroom before attempting to lift any tall wall :-)

1. 
   blue_eyed_devil | May 12, 2006 10:44pm | #15

   We lifted one where we let the bottom float and the tires of the forklift were pretty close to the edge of the deck, so as the wall went up, it slid right to the tires and then pivoted.

   Tim, I understand that the wall might have some movement, but how much movement can there be with such a small amount of play in the strap?

   The movement is disconcerting until you realize that the machine has it and it isn't going anywhere. Once you face up to that reality, you'll soon lose that panicky feeling when a big wall is going up.

   My biggest panic is the hookup. I'm very cautious about the hookup and I tend to be conservative. If I see the wall sagging when I begin the lift, I set it back down and re-hook. I try to always hook in a manner that grabs the most beef. Your method grabbed a lot of beef and is acceptable to me, but I don't have such long straps. We work with two shorter straps.

   The extra boom is quite helpful when raising these tall walls too with the added length and the extra flexility of the boom.

   We actually don't set too many walls with the machine though becasue we have the crane onsite...usually. The last job we framed, we didn't move the crane there and used the machine for all the walls. The walls were all preframed and stacked up before the basement was poured. ON day one, three of us  put the 1550 sf deck on, then set all the outside walls. I'm sure the farmers were wondering how we managed that LoL! I think I took some pics...I don't remember.

   Carry on...keep posting pics, especially of this job. I'm always interested.

   blue, . 

1. 
   dieselpig | May 12, 2006 10:54pm | #16

   Blue,

   When you lift with two individual straps, how do you physically make the connection from strap to gable?  Do you just pass it behind a certain # of studs and then put one end of the sling through the loop and hook the other end on a fork?  Or do you wrap around a rafter? 

   Also, do you happen to know what the load rating on your straps is/are?  Or how much you'd think that wall in Tim's picture might weigh?

   Sorry.... lots of questions, but there's not exactly a ton of guys with experience with this stuff that I can ask.  Looks like you're stuck with me.View Image

2. 
   Timuhler | May 13, 2006 04:22am | #20

   Brian,

   I forgot to check the strap and my camera battery is dead, but as soon as it's charged, I'll run out and check and post a pic  of the strap because I think it has the load ratings on it.  It's pretty stout.

3. 
   blue_eyed_devil | May 13, 2006 07:31am | #22

   Brian, it all boils down to experience.

   I've lifted and hoisted and tilted so many walls that I can generally guess where the best pic points are. I generally know when a wall will be a challenge too.

   I buy straps that are two ply. They are incredibly strong and the only time we ruin them is when we try to yank someone out of the mud and the edges get cut on something sharp. I've never had a strap break under the load of a wall.

   I've never tried to guestimate what a wall weighs. In most cases, my limiting factor will be the crane, not the strap. Once I get the crane boomed down to a certain point, the lifting capacity decreases rapidly. When I see the outriggers floating, I know I'm onto a heavy load, LOL! If the crane can't grab it, we send the machine. There hasn't been a wall that we've framed that came even slightly close to causing it to groan.

   Also keep in mind that we tend to build our walls in smaller components. There would have to be some real good reasons for us to build that gable wall like Tim did in one piece. Nine times out of ten, we'd split that wall at the wall line. We just find it's faster to handle smaller sections and many times we have trusses shipped. Since we set everything by machine or crane, it's just as easy to stand the flat wall, then later set a finished gable on it.

   So, the typical gable set is nothing more than a strap wrapped around the gable top chord and hooked onto the crane hook or the skytrak forks. Of course the weight is cut by a half and theres really no concern at all about the pick point failing.

   When I do encounter something that will be heavy and challenging, I focus very early on the framing on creating a solid pick point. Basically, I make my mental plan when the barebones structure is framed and well before I sheath and trim it. In these cases, planning is everything. Without that, the pick points tend to be reactionary and risky, rather than planned for and conservative.

   One last thing, no one normally has to put themselves in harms way. I've had a few close calls with weird things happening, but in most of those cases, I wasn't there supervising the framing or hookup. I'm crazy about hooking things up but my track record says I'm right for doing so. I can only remember one wall getting away from us and that was with wall jacks and we failed to set them up properly to prevent the wall from going over. Even then, I don't think I was the main man...but I was present and should have thrown my weight around.

   If you're goiing to maximize that machine of yours, you're going to have to stick your neck out a bit and take a few "chances". After a few experiences, you'll soon find out that there really isn't any unmanageable risk.

   blue 

4. 
   jonblakemore | May 12, 2006 11:10pm | #17

   The last job we framed, we didn't move the crane there and used the machine for all the walls. The walls were all preframed and stacked up before the basement was poured.

   Do you ever have problems with the foundation being aa different size than the plans? What kind of discrepancy would you accept from the plans to the foundation? 

   Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA

5. 
   blue_eyed_devil | May 13, 2006 07:38am | #23

   Jon, we considered the risk of a poorly poured foundation. There are two mitigating factors: 1) it was a simple rectangle with one offset in the front. 2)The maximum time required to alter the wall lengths is about three minutes per wall.

   When you factor that last one in, it's easy for us to "take a chance".

   The results were quite satifactory. The only discrepency was the back wall where it missed by 1/4". We just banged the intersecting wall in to meet the back wall and blended it on the bottom plate for the length of the room. That measly 1/4" was well within my tolerance levels for a bedroom.  Some of the walls had overhangs on them too and they worked out perfectly.

   When you think about it, it's not really anything that dramatic. It's all simple math and simple rectangles.

   blue 

6. 
   Timuhler | May 13, 2006 04:21am | #19

   Blue,

   Your post reminds me of a funny story.  When we first had a forklift about 4 years ago this month, we built a fairly small rakewall (by today's standards :-)), sided it hung the windows in the gables and installed Hardi.  I was running the forklift, and Jasen was signalling me.  It was a job for my brother.  The wall was swinging just a few inches above the deck, nothing to be concerned about, well

   my brother was all scared because he didn't have much experience with this kind of thing (of course neither did we hahaha) so he had to leave.  We still tease him that whenever we are going to lift something big, does he want to be there :-)

   I agree with pretty much everything in your post.  The pick points, a good strap and a cautious attitude are the biggest things. 

   I will post more pics of this job as we go.  Thanks for the comments.  It's been a little slower because of guys in and out and being back and forth on other projects (we do more than just framing since we work for the GC), but overall its been a really fun job.

2. 
   Timuhler | May 17, 2006 03:45am | #25

   Brian,

   I finally took a couple of pics of the straps.  Here they are, but I don't know the rating

   http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/10043887/147329177.jpg

   http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/10043887/147329156.jpg