W/C insurors want to know what our company policy is and it has me stumped.
They want the policy to help contain costs for the claims. Of course , when your company consists of 2 – 3 guys / gals and it is all physical labor…. how do you institiute a “light duty” job classification ?
have any of you developed a plan for this ?
or is it just something that small employers cannot accomodate ?
Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
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I could not accommodate that. I have one job classification and it's carpenter--foundation to finish. If I had a large crew (maybe 10+) there would be the remote possibility of a runner/delivery/shop cleanup guy... but that would only be P/T. Years ago as a PM in a company with 30+ guys in the field we had some light duty situations, mainly clean the shop, repair the tools, go on materials runs, etc. Always short term, maybe a few weeks, until the patient was ready to carry 2x12 rafters up a ladder again.
Mike, in NY we "classify" labor as you might in everyday talk about construction trades. Thus, there are categories for "roofers," "masons," and "carpenters."
Each category has a different rate for WC, so for example, "landscapers" carry a considerably lower rate than do "carpenters," I guess because historically, NY finds landscapers suffer fewer disabling accidents.
Is "Light duty - return to work" the kind of category one could use for someone who was off work due to an on-job injury, but can return to work doing light duty, but not the heavy lifting or climbing stuff they may have been doing before? Sounds like it.
If you create the classification, can you in fact create the "job?" In other words, can you give 40 hours of work each week to someone who cannot do much beyond sweep floors?
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"A stripe is just as real as a dadgummed flower."
Gene Davis 1920-1985
Gene.... i don't know all the answers... labor lawyers make oney on this...
insurance companies debate it...
here's our written policy.....
<<<
Section 20 Return to Work Program
M. F. Smith Associates is committed to return our employees that have been injured on the job to their former or modified position as soon as medically feasible.
1. If you should become injured , contact your supervisor immediately. Your supervisor will arrange proper medical attention, either on site or at the closest health facility.
2. If outside medical attention is required and you are unable to return to work THE SAME DAY, please contact your supervisor. The medical facility where you were treated will give you information regarding your injury and the possible time out of work. This information must be delivered to us so that we can contact our insurance company.
3. Your job will be open to you as soon as your doctor allows you to return to work. We will remain in contact with each other to keep us updated thruout your recovery.
4. Upon your return to work, we will make every effort to accommodate any restrictions deemed medically necessary. We will endeavor to develop alternative work or "light duty" assignments in conjunction with your physical abilities and the needs of the current jobs in progress. This modified work can either be full time or part time, will be specific and in writing and requires approval of the treating physician.
Restrictive duty may be required until you are capable of resuming your normal duties. This may or may not be related to your current position and job category.>>>>>
kind of open ended... but it is all i've got so far...
Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
here's our written policy.....
Why have a policy which doesn't fit the type of work that you do or the size of your operation? Is it a legal requirement? Or what?
Mike,
Do you have to have a light duty policy? Could your policy be "you must be able to complete normal work duty and have authorization from your physician that you can return to work."
I know I do not have light duty work even part time for any of my employees.
Bruce
i think the policy says we will do everything possible to return you to workthe constraints are ...
the nature of our work
the nature of the injuryand of course, the underlying theme is....how would i like to be treated ?Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
and of course, the underlying theme is....how would i like to be treated ?
I was taught to "work aware", of myself and the surroundings. It has been very effective, helping me to stay in the present, improve my skills and work safely. Keeps me better balanced emotionally too.
I've made a continuing effort to teach what I've learned from that, while being a quiet example of it.
That's my prescription for how I'd like to be treated. Make me safer first and keep the premiums paid up on the WC.
If I get injured due to my own inattentiveness, I'll know that you've done everything you could to protect everyone.
But, knowing that you're running a small business with limited profits, I won't expect you to pay me to do nonproductive "busy work" while I'm recovering from an injury. That should be covered by WC or as a disability, if it becomes permanent.
I hear you about the "how would I like to be treated" and I guess that is why I pay comp on all my employees and myself. So we are covered until healthy. I have never had to deal with this so I do not know how far or long comp will cover someone.
Maybe it's time to train someone on Chief?
Bruce
I am a candidate for Chief training. Is that "light duty?"
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"A stripe is just as real as a dadgummed flower."
Gene Davis 1920-1985
Sorry,
That position has been filled.
Bruce
i guess the insurance companies are looking to get out from under a long term disability
so.....to qualify for the safety group discounts... they want a written policy that includes the possibility of light duty
the guys i have on payroll are family guys....if anything happened to them i would like to help carry the load... while still maintaining viabilityMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
"the guys i have on payroll are family guys....if anything happened to them i would like to help carry the load... while still maintaining viability"That's what I did...helped a guy out that was a family guy. No good deed goes unpunished LOL!
exactly..... but i gotchta keep relearning that lesson
"oh, puleeeze don't throw me in the briar patch "Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
One of the great things about WA is that work comp is state-run and my rates for a given classification are the same as anyone else's (subject to experience modifier). Whether or not I have light duty available will have no impact on my rates.
I assume that your carrier is looking to see whether your light-duty positions might lower their costs, and if not, they might increase yours.
it works like this, the regular heavy duty everyday job is to pick up and man handle a 40 ton rear axle.the light duty is to man handle a twenty ton axle, if he cant do it then you dont need him.so on foundation, heavy duty, wheel barrow the concrete, light duty, drive the stakes with a 20 lb sledge, cant do light, dont need him.
I'm not trying to sound heartless, it's just that we do heavy work almost all the time and how am I going to change that?? This is not a 30-man company where I can lose one guy in the shop sweeping up cobwebs. In the course of an average house build I can always find hours here and there doing light work but it's not a F/T job. I would say 75% or more of companies doing residential build/remodel are the same way, a few guys and everyone does heavy duty.
this is a new carrier negotiated by RI Builders Association
the old one was created by the state, but after some shady inside deals, they cleaned out the Board.. the (new) board decided to cut out our RIBA Safety Group and create their own
anyways... the new carrier wants the safety group to have a "return to work " written policy...... which is what i produced
i think Maine went thru some tough times with their W/C a couple years ago... same as RI... the insurance companies all stopped writing W/C in the state
RI's solution was to create a captive company called Beacon Mutual... after about 10 years ...the other companies want to come back in and compete against them...
our rates are continually fallingMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
>>our rates are continually falling
Same here, stable or downward trend. Last year we had a "rate holiday" for 6 months which meant I had to reprogram my software with the new rates at midyear.
When I came here from CA I noticed the rates were quite low for the most part. How can it be so much less to treat worker injuries just by jumping across the state line?? In CA there is (was?) state and private carriers.
It was closer to fifteen years ago or so.
The state rewrote the rules to control costs ( up to around 40% back then) and the new rules were unpalatable to the companies so they all bnailed, leaving the state to form their own fund.when it started, rates were around 11%Now up to more like 19%, but you get a discount/rebate when you do all your paperwork and cross the Ts and dot the Is. They send out a guy twice a year on site to review your practices and make 'suggestions'
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"i guess the insurance companies are looking to get out from under a long term disability"If that is the case, I would include a phrase after how you provide light duty as much as possible - to say" for a temporary period of up to....weeks while you are making recovery to full activity status."Something that hinges on progress to full work and limits your long term exposure to the need to provide light duty.I like the idea in genral. I had a WC operation in '88 for hernia and the ins worked to be sure I had PT to get back in shape and light duty for the first week or two back on the job.By contrast, in '73 or therabouts, I had a hernia surgery and was off work on comp[ for 13 weeks, then released straight back to full status. Naturally, I was out of shape, and the first or second day back I hurt my back and was out for another 5-6 weeks. the companies have learned a lot for the good of the workers, the industry, and their own bottom line in the meanwhile about being proactive in that the best policy for everyone is to re-equip the employee for hewalthy productive employment ASAP.I assume you know your guys and will not keep somebody on who is the kind that would falsify or needlessly prolong a claim. I had a guy who started making me neervous once. He was talking about friends and relatives who got this and did that and wonm lawsuits for whatever.
So I helped him find other employment.
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keeping the right employees thru thick and thin is my goalMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I can picture assigning something like cleaning up the shop, sorting and storing all the various sizes of screws and parts, repairing old tools that have been piling up, painting shovel handles with linseed oil and other maintanence that gets neglected, etc.
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That should be fun for the first 4 hours. Then what?
I could lay a guy onto that for a week
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But then you wouldn't know where anything was.
Mike, I'd just tell them that the lightest job is yours, as the boss, and that you do almost as much carrying and other heavy work as anyone else.
I kept a guy on "light duty" payroll. He was injured on another contractors license and he needed surgery to correct a few things but the WC people were refusing him. Eventually, his lawyer sued the WC carrier to provide for the surgery.
When the lawsuit happened, I was dragged into it because I proved the guy "light duty" employment instead of letting him starve.
My WC insurance eventually settled and paid about 40% of the claim even though the guy was never hurt on my job.
So, my "light duty" policy is this: We are a construction company and there are no "light duty" jobs available.
So once you create this position can an injured individual apply for and get hired into it?
When I worked for the big corporation they used to have light duty for people coming off of sick leave, but I can't remember the legal reason why they stopped it. Either your fit for duty at the regular job or your not.
no.... and also....you define the job...but the worker's doctor has to certify that he can return to work and perform the "light duties"Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I have had to develop a "Light Duty" program.
Thankfully not for my own business.
No matter how you spin it, an operation your size is going to lose money on that deal. I'll assume you don't have a ton of paperwork not already handled. How many errands need run in one day that don't include lift, loading or carrying?
Thankfully I had a long list of recurring and mundane tasks that I plotted out on an Excel spreadsheet. I also programmed in blocks of "Phone Time" for him to make those calls that involve 45 minutes of being on hold and 4 minutes of actual business. When I had a light duty guy, he did those freeing up my other staff for special projects I had been planning.
Every time in the first two years of this gig that I had a guy on a light duty program i used to cringe at what it was costing to have him do what he was doing.
Then one day I realized it wasn't my own money anyway. You don't have that luxury.
"How many errands need run in one day that don't include lift, loading or carrying?"I have been injured as a self employed peson a number of times and had to work, adjusting things to my status. Believe me, you can get creative about this.Like putting the guy on a paint brush instead of hiring a painter for parts of the job.Or modifying methods of how to do a thing. For instance, I had my arm in a sling and was working a tear off. The rest of the guys were throwing the shingles onto a tarp, and I grabbed the corner with one hand and dragged it over to the edge of the roof to spill into the dumptruck.
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we have problem with WC fraud, somebody be lazy and start complaining about back problems and want light duty. we did not have light duty in that department so boss sent him home till he got a dr excuse to go back to work.
As someone who has been forced to file not one but three workmans comp claims due to broken bones (cutting concrete in my past life) I can tell you that light duty is no lifting 5 pounds or more and no climbing a ladder or scaffold. This seems very restrictive until you become the guy who can't make a living unless he can figure out a way to stay busy. I was terrified and had to work to make ends meet, so I stayed busy. The employee manual doesn't need to cover every thing other than just to say that "you will accommodate the employee's restriction as long as they can remain productive under restriction". Here are some things the light duty guy can do.
5 pounds is about what a gallon of milk weighs so don't lift anything heavier-unless someone else is helping. only climb a ladder or scaffold as high as you feel comfortable. with that said You can;
swing a hammer all day long, run the miter saw, cut tile, tote two by fours, roll and unroll cords and hoses, sweep or clean, if a guy really wants to keep working almost every part of the job is to some extent do-able. Obviously you can't carry shingles up a ladder but most things aren't repetative on a construction sight and that's the real danger.
I always healed faster when I worked with an injury because the blood flow is what your body needs.