I need some advice on the easiest way to move a switch. The lights are in the unfinished half of the basement (which is where the laundry is), but the switch is outside in the finished half.
I’d like to replace the switch with one that has an occupancy sensor, but then it needs to be on the unfinished side. I can’t just flip the box in place (leaving it attached to the same wall) because it would be too deep for the sensor to work properly (see picture). There’s no wall on the unfinished side and I don’t want to have to add one!
Is there a mounting box or some other product for this situation?
Janet
Replies
That is an old work box
You can loosen the screws that hold the wings, it will come loose and you can "rock" it out.
usually these have nail holes near the back that you can put long nails through (Be careful yyou don't hit a wire) and you can "face" it on the other side and drive in the nails.
Plan B is to remove the cables from that box and use a regular nail up box on the other side. That may actually be the best idea.
Use a deep one so you have plenty of room for the Oc sensor.
Yeah, you should be able to mount a box to that "stud" to the left. You can use the existing box with long nails through the two holes that should be at the extreme top and bottom of each side (be careful of the wires), or you can get a "new work" box that's designed to nail to a stud. (You can "scab" a piece of scrap 2x4 to the existing "stud" if you want the switch to be closer to it's current position.
Or you can get creative, cut an appropriate hole in a piece of scrap plywood, mount the box to that, and nail it between two studs.
Covering it up
Just realized that the face plate for the switch is meant to cover a hole in the wall, not the electrical box. It will look weird, which I can live with (the convenience of an occupancy sensor is worth it).
Still, there must be a specialized housing for this type of installation. I can almost remember seeing one in a stark place like a hospital corridor...a raceway leading to a surface-mounted housing that looks more finished than an electrical box.
Any idea what this is and where to find it?
Janet
Yeah, you can get what they call a "handy box" or "utility box" which is kind of bathtub shaped. Get an "oversized" one like this: http://www.garvinindustries.com/electrical-junction-boxes/handy-utility-boxes/oversized-handy-boxes-device-covers/g20281
and a matching "Decora-style" cover like this: http://www.garvinindustries.com/electrical-junction-boxes/handy-utility-boxes/oversized-handy-boxes-device-covers/g20470
You have to be a bit creative mounting the "handy box", though (you might be able to find a ready-made mounting bracket or you may have to install a piece of wood behind the box for mounting, and you will need to feed the wires through a cable clamp sort of like this: http://www.garvinindustries.com/electrical-fittings/power-cord-cable-connectors/nonmetallic-cable-connectors-screw-type/rxcn75
There are other options. Eg, a larger box with a "mud ring".
OK, here's your shopping list, to take to your local box store or electrical supply house:
1- 4S box with mounting bracket. A "deep" box is easier to work with
1- Industrial cover for a single GFCI (or Decora) device
1- Occupancy sensor/ motion sensor switch (most use GFCI cover plates)
1- 2-screw cable clamp
1- ground screw (probably need to buy a little pasck of 25 or so)
4- Drywall or similar screws, #6 or #8, about 1-1/4" long.
When you see the parts, I'm pretty sure you will see how they go together. The ground screw is for anchoring your ground wire to the box.
Mount the box so that the bracket is almost, but not quite, flush with the face of the stud you mount it on. Later, if you decide to close in the wall, you need only replace the cover with a 'mud ring' and the usual plastic cover plate.
The cable doesn't have a metallic sheath
Does this mean the existing wiring is wrong/dangerous?
Janet
There is nothing wrong with your existing wiring.
That quote takes certain practices out of context, and does not apply to your situation. Your wires, etc., are "within" the wall cavity, and not on the 'surface' of the wall.
That's a relief.
Thanks for clarifying.
Janet
That's a relief.
Thanks for clarifying.
Janet
You can sometimes feed two #14 romex through a single large cable clamp, though a clamp for each might be more convenient.
The conduit requirement is regularly ignored in "unfinished" sections of a residence. But turning the box around (so that you're facing it rather on the back side of it) makes the space arguably less "unfinished", so if you want to be a stickler you can install conduit up to the ceiling, with the romex running through it. Just remember that there must be a clamp/bushing at the TOP of the conduit where the cable exits, mainly to protect the wire from cuts. (You might want to consider using flexible conduit of some sort.)
A separate conduit for each cable?
<sigh> Guess this wasn't as simple a project as it appeared at first.
Janet
(Corrugated flexible (and blue) "smurf tubing" may be what you want to use here, if you decide to go with conduit. Remember, if the conduit is large enough you can feed the romex through it -- there's no need to switch over to individual wires.)
Smurf conduit?!
I am only familiar with the two kinds of conduit that are in my house! Home Depot listed so many different types, it was something of a relief (from sensory overload) when Greg and renosteinke said that conduit isn't necessary for my project.
Janet
I am a big fan of Smurf (Type ENT) but you do not really need it where you are. Terchnically, smurf is not really any more protection than Romex. The usage is virtually the same. What it does offer is flexibility in design. You can easily pull in a different combination of wires and if your design allows it, you can change what goes where.
In my new addition I did home runs from every box to a common J box and my wife has already changed switch assignments a couple times
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chill out
jyang949 wrote:
<sigh> Guess this wasn't as simple a project as it appeared at first.
Janet
Don't let the internet make this more complicated than it is. You ae just moving a box.
Your Romex (wiring) is fine.
I reccomend the 4" square
I reccomend the 4" square boxes because:
1) That's what the industrial covers and mud rings are sized to fit;
2) It's always nice to have the extra room in the box; and,
3) They're readily available.
The 2-screw clamp I suggested will take two cables each.
Just for fun, here are links to some artwork of the various pieces:
http://www-public.tnb.com/ps/fulltilt/index.cgi?part=4SWFBSPL
http://www.tnb.com/ps/fulltilt/index.cgi?part=NC301
http://www-public.tnb.com/ps/fulltilt/index.cgi?part=479GFI
Almost finished
Thanks, everybody, for the advice and instruction. The new switch is installed and working, with no mishaps. The occupancy sensor is a real convenience. I'm considering putting one in every room my teenage daughter uses.
Janet